Jeikun

Yeah some of the people there are an interesting mix of European caucasian (like our dead doobie-roller) Uyghur Turks, and some Chinese sprinkled in. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/90/Uyghur_girl.jpg

Not that it matters, but they say he was a white dude too

I'm curious as to your opinion of the drawbacks to each approach (though you hinted to the drawback to Greek [western] thought). Also the strengths. I think to adhere strictly to either methodology, leads to many missed truths, and perspectives. It's not an easy task to fully understand both (and not one I feel I am up to, I'm far too steeped in western philosophies) because at times they are contradictory, and anecdotally speaking both are right and both are incorrect.

If I recall correctly, every time the UN human rights report comes out, China is irritated with it and calls it slanderous. If I might venture to use a bit of clairvoyance, they will likely be irritated with the next one and call it slanderous. And the next one. And the next one...

That's what I saw. Not just that but was asked to assist... then the anesthesia wore off... then Jun Fainted... it was all so grizzley...

I'm a dog lover too. I gotta say though my one visit to a Chinese vet scarred me for life. There are things that you can just never unsee or unhear. It's probably posted somewhere in my stories already though.

I want to see PETAs response to this. I could use a good laugh

That's great. If something had happened to their mom, they wouldn't have stood a chance in the wild.

That, or he was really a couple of weeks old before his birth was reported. I've seen a couple of "miraculous" things like that in the rural USA turn out similarly. Of course, could be real too.

Now THAT gives me the heebie-jeebies. Think I'd keep 4 or 5 cats. Or maybe a small Lynx

It will enhance things that are best and worst in China. Hopefully as this change proceeds it will tend towards the former. This is also a glaring reason that the developed countries need to get away from the use of fossil fuels... fast. That kind of increased burden on global fuel supplies (not to mention India and other places urbanizing and modernizing as well) that pretty much defies most current models. Don't get me wrong, I think it's amazing. It only goes further towards convincing me that China will become the most influential and prosperous country on earth. It's just a matter of when. But it also enhances the importance of pollution reduction and smarter fuel use, not just by China but by the USA, India, and everyone... so there isn't a future of us fighting for scraps under poisoned skies.

That's a good point. I know a lot of members and wives here are 40+ but when I first joined the percentage was much higher. Me and (oh crap... I can't remember his name. Samnme I think?? He lived in New Orleans and hasn't posted much since Katrina) anyway... we were the only posting members in our 20's back then. Over the last few years there have been more and more (and 1 less since I'm friggin 34 now ). Anyone 32 and under wasn't even born during the cultural revolution, and anyone under 40 or so probably can't remember it in any meaningful way. Pretty soon most of the Chinese that Americans are meeting going through this visa process and building relationships with are from the "New China" of rapid economic expansion, prosperity (at least if they're middle-class city residents), and the one child policy. How do you think this generation gap will result in a different experience between our older (and OLDER) members, and the newer and younger ones?

Yeah, but now they don't need visas to visit here either

You mean in twenty years there's gonna be guys in moon suits scraping soy out of buildings all over the country? maaaaybeee..... Or maybe the tofurkies are going to rise up in revolt and destroy all of our cellphones.

Soy is the asbestos of the future

I was only speaking about the obesity, not all the diseases. Diseases happen for a variety of reasons. However many parents will not encourage thier children to maintain an active and healthy life. They let them sit on the computer or on video games and let them eat whatever they want, then when thier kids get obese and they blame the food. I don't mean that you can eat unhealthy and excercise and you'll be just fine. I did not mean that in the slightest. However someone who already lives healthy and eats healthy can eat junk food without hardly any problems. You can't live entirely on junk food, and realy, the people that make that a primary part of thier diet need some serious help. Having a healthy LIFESTYLE is what i should've said. That includes food, excercise, alcohol/cigarette/drug usage. I see less and less things promoting healthy lifestyles to kids. Most people also seems to think they are too busy to maintain a healthy lifestyle. There just needs to be a lot more education on how to live healthy and i don't think we'd see such severe problems with the fast food issue. I agree with you whole heartedly, the problem is most of America is confused about what is healthy because of all the drug promotion, dairy promotion (in schools) and meat promotion. Got milk? Got Cancer? Is what they should be saying. Ditto for soy promotion. Try finding any item in your cupboards or refridgerator (other than a whole food) that doesn't contain soy. Seriously... try. But yes, lifestyle and food choice together make a whole picture. My granddad had eggs and bacon every morning, gravy potatoes, cured meat, dessert with every dinner, lots of veggies too... but he still could have whooped any 2 of you when he was in his early 70's. Because he worked hard every day and enjoyed being active even when he didn't have to be. Yet, while rare, I have seen fat vegetarians. Certain diets weigh the deck in favor of health or not, certain lifestyles do the same. Combo bad and bad together and you have... hmmm me I guess... lol

I remember a post Jun made about how all american food was heavy, greasy, no good... then after about 6 months of corruption favorites became: Steak-bloody(or extra-extra rare as she would call it), fried cheese, cheese bacon and sour-cream filled potato skins, anything with melted cheese on it. Fondue appitizer at red lobster she would leave the bread and eat the cheese with a spoon Lasagna, cheesecake, 2 in-n-out double doubles... when she is here she doesn't even cook Chinese unless I push. When she's in China for very long she just complains that the cheese sucks and she can't get good American food.

You have your priorities straight love trumps silly arguments over things we have no control over anyway. Am I old enough to be unca?? holy crap. I was the youngest member here the day I joined I'm going to bed and rest my old bones.

Of course we intervened because at the time we were friends with the ROC government, and not the PRC one. If your friend was beat up would you stop being his friend and become the person who beat him up's friend instead? That wouldn't be very nice... Oh, and I'm a southerner hehe. We tried to get other countries to intervene but no one would :( Would China like to declare me the ruler of CSA to pay America back for Taiwan? I'd like Hawaii please FRIEND?? THAT IS THE FUNIEST THING I 'VE HEARD TODAY Just an oversimplification for argument sake... like BULLY. Bottom line is, we didn't trust communists with what was going on in the Soviet Union. We supported the non-communist side in China's civil war, they were seen at the time as the legitimate government of China by the international community (were a permanent UN member). They lost. We pouted and stomped our feet, and 20-some years later with the rest of the world we recognized the legitimacy of the PRC and they took over the "China" seat in the UN. Nowadays things are a lot better. Heck sometimes (so I have heard) Chinese and Americans even fall in love with each other and get married and then post on message boards about it Honestly, I support peaceful reunification. That's my stance. As for what we did when we did it, I see and understand why though since I wasn't alive back then I can't say how I would have seen it at the time. I guess like many Americans in the 50's I would have been terrified of Communism and felt the same way. The world has changed. Sometimes I talk somewhat tongue-in-cheek. You'll have to forgive me

Nothing. I was responding to Wendy and it simply came to mind. Actually I meant Darnell's reply quoted your comment on the atrocities. I wasn't sure why. After he edited his comment it made more sence so I deleted my question.

Of course we intervened because at the time we were friends with the ROC government, and not the PRC one. If your friend was beat up and kicked out from his house to live in the dog's house, would you stop being his friend and become the person who beat him up's friend instead? That wouldn't be very nice... Oh, and I'm a southerner hehe. We tried to get other countries to intervene but no one would Would China like to declare me the ruler of CSA to pay America back for Taiwan? I'd like Hawaii please

We can only hope that America learns to start keeping it's expansionist nose out of it. Expansionist? When is the last time we took an inch of dirt from another country and kept it? Actually I think the US's stance in regards to Taiwan keeps getting smarter. It went from "Taiwan is the legetimate government of China in exile." to "PRC is the legitamate government, but in a conflict we will support Taiwan." to "PRC is the legitimate government, and we will only become involved militarily if Taiwan is attacked without provocation." We went from locking ourselves in to potential military conflict with China to leaving a loophole we would undoubtedly use to never let such a thing happen no matter what happened I think the progerss is good. It may be a rocky road, but I see eventual peaceful reunification as the nearly certain outcome. When and under what circumstances is the only real question.

That was a peaceful and very brave man indeed. And make no mistake about it, that I am indeed an advocate of people publically voicing their discontent. Your original post however accuses the Chinese police of inflaming a demonstration. If the police ask you to disburse, and you choose to remain, then just who is doing the inflaming of the situation? The demonstrators? The police? Both? None? Oh no sir...The person accusing the Chinese police of inflaming protests was the Head Cop in China... Yeah, but what does he know? Jesse'll have his job in 6 months.

Congrats Dave, and good to see you again!!

I also wanted to say I realize my post was completely OT. As for the original post, regardless of the reasons or ulterior motives for anyone reporting on things like this in China... they don't really have to stretch things to show how bad it is because it's really that bad (as I see it anyway). Arguments about the motivations of the people who expose themselves to this, and how it may help put some rice in the pot aside, the point is it's a terrible situation and a terrible choice to present people with. Simply that it would be difficult to phase out at this point in time, is no reason not to try like hell to find a way, and whether you can help or not, the suffering of people should never been seen as merely an unfortunate side-effect of industrialization. Sometimes human suffering is necessary and unavoidable, but apathy and calousness in the face of it is what allows it to continue longer and scar deeper. So in that sense, I suppose I'm in the I.D. and Roggie camp. (let's just not discuss partisan politics at the campfire or things might get messy)