Jeikun

He hasn't logged in since 7 hours after making that post...

Let me concur. There are a couple of species fairly readily identifiable, but going beyond these especially relying on a book only and not being taught by someone directly with experience is asking for death. A whole Korean family died in Virginia when I was a kid for this reason. Seems Asian immigrants tend to die this way more than other groups. They say "choose you battles wisely", and this might be one of those.

I'd be interested to see the source. But from what I had read the Dutch presence in Japan was not large enough to alter the racial characteristics of the general population. Also There's no significant (observed) difference from 16th century Japanese and 21st century Japanese. Although anecdotally, I can see where there was at least some effect. A Japanese friend some years ago had a friend who married an Englishman. Their daughter came out with blonde hair and blue eyes... her friend as far as she knew was "pure Japanese", but it would be impossible for her to have a blonde blue eyed daughter unless she was carrying those caucasian genes. One interesting thing is (though with people moving so freely now it is changing) that southwestern Japanese nearer to the coast facing Korea tend to have more Korean and/or Chinese like traits (smaller nose bridge, wider jawbone, opaque skin), while those in the north and into Hokkaido tend to have more Ainu influenced traits (Deep set eyes, prominent nose bridge, translucent skin). I never heard about Japanese around Nagasaki having more caucasian traits, but I'll see what I can find. I always thought ethnicity and the evolution of language as people migrated around the world was an interesting subject.

Yes, the oldest recorded mention of Japan is in Chinese texts and it was referred to as "the kingdom of the slaves" basically. And it was Chinese who taught Japanese to read and write. Even their other writing systems Katakana and Hiragana are based from Chinese characters. But Chinese love to overstate the influence of China in Japan, just like Koreans love to do the same. (My Korean teacher used to tell me how Japanese were all decended from Korean political exiles and criminals). I would also question the veracity of the book stating dutch intermixed enough to alter Japanese racial makeup. How long ago did you find that source? I only ask because the influence of the Ainu wasn't so obvious until fairly recently, and in past decades western sources loved to make the west seem way more important than they are (as you well know). For one, the west had to consider Japan as more of an equal earlier than they did the other asian nations, so considering them to have white blood was a good excuse...

I know this is OT, Kim. But I am curious what you meant by "Han in Japan"... If you are referring to the Japanese people they are not Han, and their physical characteristics are not due to mixing with the Dutch. Physically modern Japanese remains have been found thousands of years old. They're a result of immigrants from Korea originally from Mongolia intermixing with what at the time were Japan's indigenous population of a polynesian-like people(short and dark skinned), and mostly the Ainu (who some people still debate about whether or not they are caucasian but definately have caucasian facial features and white translucent skin). Later in Japan's history some Han families did move into Japan, but not enough to significantly affect their racial makeup as a whole.

Innard Snacks

That'll teach him to not chat on QQ and play World of Warcraft so much!! What do they do for Television addicts? Lock them in a wet basement for a month and feed them cold gruel and insults? I'm sorry, I know it's a tragedy, but for F@#$ sake... Internet Addiction Clinic? How hokey. It was begging to be abused by some small brains who like to hurt people.

Virginia -> Texas -> California -> Texas -> South Korea -> Maryland -> Virginia -> Michigan -> Virginia -> California. Spent most of my life in Virginia and a distant second in California. California has better winters, and beautiful coastlines, but loses out to VA in every other arena in my opinion. If we could turn the heat up to 65F in January, I'd call Virginia the best state in the Union.

AHA!!! I know who you are now!

This may be a generational thing. Jun was as much about celebrating birthdays (hers, her brother's, mine, my dad's, her dog's...) as any American I knew.

I don't want to come off as justifying ANY of the violence that went on on either side. But I would point out, that when putting aside differences means gradual total assimilation into a larger and more dominant culture and religion... that tends to rile people up a bit. I can understand their objection to the sinofication of their lives. I imagine if the Koreans had just accepted the Japanization of their culture and not fought it tooth and nail for decades, that things in the Korean penninsula would be much more peaceful and harmonious right now, but a language culture and people would be extinct. Or like we did to 95% of the Native Americans, or the Spanish did to the native Mexican peoples. There's still a Mexican people, but is their culture more Mezo-American, or more Spanish? More dominant cultures always assimilate smaller or less "advanced" ones, but it doesn't mean they have to or should like it.

What he said... what he said but what said he?

Elaborate, please. I'm far too much of an infant in a historical and cultural sense to glean what your deeper meaning was in those 2 sentences, or to see how they were on topic. But I am sure the 5,000 years surging through your veins and imbuing every neural synapse with the wisdom of the ancients had a greater purpose in mind that I simply fail to see. Enlighten me.

Al lot of you over 40 guys and ladies are missing a lot of what comprises "modern" China I think. Despite obvious cultural differences, my wife bore more resemblance to someone I would meet down the street than this storied vision of the Chinese people I often read on this website. Their world has changed drastically, and I think somewhere around 36 and under you start seeing it more and more with many of the urban teens and 20 somethings being even more shallow and spoiled than your typical American kid. The generation gaps developing dwarf anything in the western world (as pretty much anything Chinese tends to do). The # of people who hold a Prada bag more valuable than filial piety, and dressing in the latest fashions more important that 50 millionty-billion years of culture is grown exponentially. You're all talking about a pre 1980's china that is fading like an old violet. Stick around a couple more decades.

I agree mostly. When use of credit goes beyond convenience (use card then pay in full before the bill), and necessity (house, vehicle, student loan)... and moves into "Buy everything I ever wanted RIGHT NOW, and then live in debt for the rest of my life even after those things have rusted and rotted" then it has become a dangerous addiction, and that addiction spread so far that it's the rule and not the exception now. Also it is relatively easy to get away with abandoning your debts and never paying, so that creditors, renters, loan officers, banks, etc are forced to do extensive credit checks because you CAN'T trust anyone financially in this country. I don't see all credit, loans, etc as bad... It's just the mix of low self-control and lenders willing to take greater risks by lending to unstable people that have turned a good thing into a bad thing. It's kind of like cheesecake. It's yummy and if you have a slice a couple of times a week no problem at all. But if you eat a whole cheesecake every day you will be 450 pounds in a couple of years and have a heart attack and had have to be taken to the hospital in a flatbed truck after they saw off the front of your house to get you out... still it wasn't the cheesecake's fault, it was yours.

You're kidding right? The Uigars are not immigrants. The Han are the immigrants. That would be like me saying that the Native Americans are immigrants.

#3 sounds tasty It's called a Smithfield ham, Jin. Try it if you get a chance. It's really good! Yup! Being from Virginia and relocating to California I had almost given up on ever having Smithfield ham again until I found out the local Ranch 99 has it. Apparently it's the closest thing you can get to Jinhua ham in the USA. So if you like Jinhua ham, or want to make ·ðÌøǽ , get a smithfield

next lets look at these ; 1. Wet-cured Ham- brine cured and mild 2. Smoked Ham- Hickory smoked usually 3. Country Ham- Special diet salty Wet-cured hams are most common, soaked in brine or injected with it to flavor and preserve freshness with minimal refrigeration and having a mild and sweeter taste. It¡¯s all about preserving moisture. Smoking Hams ¨C it¡¯s the most popular in America, yes but often done poorly with vaporized fake smoke flavor. Good ones are smoked using hickory, peach, pecan or others. Its more about flavor. Country Ham- Pigs fed a special diet then the ham is cured in salt. clearly the all develop and change over time, but which method is really the most tasty?

They try to hide the rabbits just like the Yeddi, but they are growing in numbers again. Some expect they are readying to attack using a flanking maneuver. Might come in useful when the Antarctic penguins finally invade. They have been eyeing the warm lands from time before humanity, you know.

Yes, very clearly indeed. But at that point, I was only using that as a half sarcastic example of what I was trying to express since it had just been said, instead of wasting energy thinking up a hypothetical. I could have used a Democrat vs Republican example, or a conspiracy theorist example... but this has already gone way past being worth the energy exerted in typing and reading it. Actually, here's the complete posting and context... sigh... nor did I say you claimed you made that assertion. I said "Jesse feels his rights may be violated..." May = might. You said "I am more in fear of my personal freedom in the US from getting pulled over for..." Practically the same thing... except you apparently took me to meaning that I interpereted you as saying you felt being pulled over may be a violation of your rights. Which was NOT what I was saying. But by all means, split hairs. This is all so very important.

Yes, very clearly indeed. But at that point, I was only using that as a half sarcastic example of what I was trying to express since it had just been said, instead of wasting energy thinking up a hypothetical. I could have used a Democrat vs Republican example, or a conspiracy theorist example... but this has already gone way past being worth the energy exerted in typing and reading it.

If we take both of your quotes together, I think we are not in disagreement at all. Pros and Cons. The core of my point was merely that both exist.

Who are they, and when did they do it? I've been in more fear of my personal freedom in the US from getting pulled over for a traffic ticket. This is likely due to the fact that virtually every police officer is in fear of being killed just for doing their job. Crime in the US is out of control. That's not the case in China. Not because the police walk the streets beating people up and oppressing them, but because violence is not the method of choice here. This is nonsensical. If driving the streets without fear of being accosted and beat down for speeding is your only measure, then maybe. But that wasn't what I was replying to. The quote was stating how perhaps Chinese people are more free than others because they can often ignore the laws with little consequence. When the police decide to crack an old lady in the head and kick her a few times for good measure for selling sodas from a cooler on the sidewalk, I have no choice but to laugh at your rosy painting of things. Not only can the PEOPLE ignore the law often in China and get away with it... but the POLICE can ignore the law and get away with it too. As far as feeling safe walking the street, it is pretty safe, AND you are a white foreign dude. My ex was attacked twice, and nearly raped once if someone hadn't came along she would have been. I guess she is the only woman who was ever violently assaulted in China. {edit} remark that set of a small argument has been removed.. He did not make the comment .. I did. What I said was in SOME ways the chinese people have more freedoms than us basis the comment Jin made (which is a very common feeling among the Chinese I know). In other ways they have less freedom. My point was it is not so ingrained in the Chinese mind that you have to follow every rule/law like it is in us and thus they have some measure of freedom that we do not have. It is better or worse ... that is debatable and depends on who you are talking with. In addition, just as there are some USC who hate everything about the USA so there are with Chinese people. Some only see the rosy nationalist view, some see the good/bad, and others only see the bad. I did not intend it to be taken as China is better than USA or vice-versa. Only that to me, and only me, it is ironic that they have so many laws/rules but yet are so free to avoid/break them. It certianly makes it difficult to have operating discipline in a factory compared to the USA but at other times, from a personal viewpoint, it is refreshing. I know you made the comment. My original reply was to the chain based on your comment. And yes, the irony you point out isn't lost on me. I don't disagree with your point. I was simply adding that on the flip side, freedom can suddenly evaporate for some unfortunates there, hence my comment "except when they don't". I also agree that experience will differ among Chinese people, sometimes drastically, you wouldn't believe they were talking about the same country and people. Which really isn't so suprising, you can get that here too and we have much fewer people (for example Jesse feels his rights may be violated when he is pulled over for speeding, while I myself do not.) I simply balk at the concept of someone who has lived in China for awhile as a foreigner professing that he has a level of deep knowledge that cannot be questioned... and those who have not walked in his shoes might as well keep their opinions to themselves. which set me off beyond what your post entailed. I am sorry if some of my railing against he who may not be questioned rubbed off on you. Insidentally the thing about the lady being beaten happened right in front of Jun in Beijing in 2004 and she called me right after to tell me about it. This wasn;t the only story either. But I guess since it is second hand, it didn't happen.

Who are they, and when did they do it? I've been in more fear of my personal freedom in the US from getting pulled over for a traffic ticket. This is likely due to the fact that virtually every police officer is in fear of being killed just for doing their job. Crime in the US is out of control. That's not the case in China. Not because the police walk the streets beating people up and oppressing them, but because violence is not the method of choice here. This is nonsensical. If driving the streets without fear of being accosted and beat down for speeding is your only measure, then maybe. But that wasn't what I was replying to. The quote was stating how perhaps Chinese people are more free than others because they can often ignore the laws with little consequence. When the police decide to crack an old lady in the head and kick her a few times for good measure for selling sodas from a cooler on the sidewalk, I have no choice but to laugh at your rosy painting of things. Not only can the PEOPLE ignore the law often in China and get away with it... but the POLICE can ignore the law and get away with it too. As far as feeling safe walking the street, it is pretty safe, AND you are a white foreign dude. My ex was attacked twice, and nearly raped once if someone hadn't came along she would have been. I guess she is the only woman who was ever violently assaulted in China. {edit} remark that set of a small argument has been removed..

And to me this is one of the greatest ironies I find about China and the people. When you look at all the laws and control the govt. wants to exert it is easy to say they have no freedom in China. Yet in reality the Chinese people usually do whatever they want and pick/choose when to follow or ignore laws/requirements with little consequence for not following the laws. It makes it hard to explain to others but it is why in some ways I think the Chinese have more freedom than others because of what Jin wrote. Very good point! Except when they don't.