Jeikun

This really isn't a good thing. When I think of 'Western,' values I think of a very materialistic lifestyle where people think of instant gratification, the loss of stable family life, loose sexual values, selfish behavior, and willingness to screw over 100+ other people for even a slight gain. I'm not saying living in abject poverty or struggling to have money for basic life necessities is good, however with Westernization the most entrepreneurial, connected, lucky, and hard working will almost always rise up, but the poor remain poor. Western ideas are also about everyone for themselves and the poor and destitute can also make it, but they are too lazy. Also, if China's government adapts the idea that they are always right and should police the world and attack at will like we seem to do in the US, then WWIII and the end of life as we know it is just a few years away. despite the backlash this post produced... I'm going to agree more with him than others will concede... I think the comments on more about historical and cultural ideology and I also hope that china doesn't turn 'western'... In general, I would agree that western ways are materialistic; if you have a house over your head which is comfortable with hot water and a soft bed and a frig with food... you just may be materialistic compared to most of the world; accept it, don't try and redefine it to satisify your idea of 'western values'.... you have more than most in the entire world will ever see. Give it all up and go to another eastern country if you think you western values will follow you through all of life. You'll be ready to redefine life in different terms is my guess. I love to hear of the mighty western idealist speak of how altruistic and better they are, or those who say essentially we are all greedy bastards in the end analysis... Again, I'll say, get out of the comfort of your existence and go live in china.. most who come back say they hate it... Do most who come from china to the US say they hate it? Wonder who is more flexible and adapting in the end analysis... and which government is going to be more adapting toward existence of it's people... A government for the people seems empty words till it's put into action... In my opinion having things of comfort doesn't necessarily equate to materialistic. Willingness to subvert your own so-called values and harm others to achieve those things does. Of course I refer to it in the negative connotation in which it is being used here... not the strict textbook definition. I just think the "willingness to screw over 100+ people for even a slight gain" fits more with a relativistic/situational ethics mindset than with a moral one, don't you think? Does it violate an "Eastern" mindset to have a house over your head that's comfortable, hot water, bed, fridge with food? Does their culture shun these things, or is it just a matter of they haven't been available to most yet? One might look to Japan or South Korea as examples of eastern culture amid full western wealth/convenience/"freedoms". I don't think they lost their cultural identities. I don't necessarily disagree with what I think your core point is... but I am guessing at it because I don't think you expressed it very well in this post (which I only mention because it's unusual for you).

This really isn't a good thing. When I think of 'Western,' values I think of a very materialistic lifestyle where people think of instant gratification, the loss of stable family life, loose sexual values, selfish behavior, and willingness to screw over 100+ other people for even a slight gain. I'm not saying living in abject poverty or struggling to have money for basic life necessities is good, however with Westernization the most entrepreneurial, connected, lucky, and hard working will almost always rise up, but the poor remain poor. Western ideas are also about everyone for themselves and the poor and destitute can also make it, but they are too lazy. Also, if China's government adapts the idea that they are always right and should police the world and attack at will like we seem to do in the US, then WWIII and the end of life as we know it is just a few years away. You have a very negative view of western values, and a very rosy one of China, then. I think many people here when they "compare" the US to China tend to think up the worst they see in the US and then contrast it with the best they see in China. To be expected from someone recently falling in love with China, but hardly an honest or fair comparison. Actually the negatives in your first paragraph describe the negative side of "modern" China very well if you ask me. I've met and known of some pretty cutthroat people in the US, but the kind of soulless materialistic backstabbing related to me by my wife from China makes them look like rank amateurs. If you look for sinners you will find them. If you look for saints you will find them. But this idea that one people lacks some essential "goodness" over another I have time and time again in my life to be 100% grade A bullshit. I think C4racer's idea of the differences being more circumstantial than cultural is more correct than anything I've heard here in awhile.

Actually, no they aren't. Japanese only uses 1,950 Chinese characters. Some Japanese Kanji are the same as Simplified Chinese characters, some are the same as Traditional ones, and some are different from either common form. Japanese also contains 2 phonetic alphabets unused in China. So there is some overlap (mostly with Traditional Chinese characters), but it would be pretty much useless. Japanese do use a lot of Chinese chararcters. When we bought our new rice cooker Bing could read enough of the instructions to figure it out. The Japanese learned to write from the Chinese. Kanji was kind of a short hand adapted from Chinese characters. http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ANCJAPAN/WRITING.HTM I think you mean Kana(Hiragana/Katakana) is a shorthand from Chinese characters. Kanji is actual Chinese characters (Kan = Han, Ji= character) and mostly "Traditional" or even more complex, rather than the newer "Simplified" forms usually used to write Mandarin nowdays. Point being, despite similarities you couldn't use the Japanese IME, or non-unicode settings to properly display Chinese. A few characters would make sence, and most would display as empty boxes or gobbilty-gook, and the Japanese IME will be looking for romanji or hiragana, not pinyin or some other Chinese input method, so would be impossible to use.

Actually, no they aren't. Japanese only uses 1,950 Chinese characters. Some Japanese Kanji are the same as Simplified Chinese characters, some are the same as Traditional ones, and some are different from either common form. Japanese also contains 2 phonetic alphabets unused in China. So there is some overlap (mostly with Traditional Chinese characters), but it would be pretty much useless.

Reminds me of a little shop in San Angelo Texas. "Juan's Chips and Salsa". That is all they sold. Period. No beverages, no cheese, no eye-catchers, no newspaper... nope. Chips. Salsa. But it was some good stuff

This is the first 3rd party "stereotype" article posted here that I think I can say I agree with 95% very well written, well thought out, and humorously presented. This is the antithesis of that "Chinese woman/puppy buyer's guide" article someone posted some time ago. All the reasons that one put me off are the reasons I like this one.

LMAO how typical. The CCP... keeping turds finely polished since 1949! (or do we really blame the photographer? )

My wife was in China for 9 months. When she reentered the immigrations person said that it was "unacceptable" and that they would let her slide this time, but if she left for more than 6 months again without a re-entry permit, she would lose her greencard. This was in Oct 2007.

For you or her, Tony?? Mark and feng!! B) For her of course. She made Sausage, Potatos O'brian and Eggs for breakfast this morning. Of course Chinese Dumplings where on the side and warm milk. OK, Tony, just making sure you are not wimping out on me!! B) Pizza Hut, KFC, Mickey!!! B) Yeah, but he asked for a GOOD western restaurant... lol

I don't know, it read to me a little like a guide for someone looking to adopt a puppy. Something about it put me off a bit. You know how with a puppy, while there are personality differences, by and large you can tell just "by breed" how they will act, their strenths and weaknesses, likes and dislikes, how to treat them, how to care for them, etc. I'm not saying the article has no merit, just that right or wrong, I didn't really care for it's overall "feel". Also, as I said many times over the last 4 years, I must have met a mutant because for better and/or worse that matches Jun about 20-30% at best. I would advise anyone who is just getting to know their Chinese partner, to pay attention to what you hear/see on CFL, but take it all with a big grain of salt and make no assumptions. Especially if she is younger, well-educated, career-minded, urban, or some combination of.

Many sites such as that are blocked because even if they have no objectionable content at the time, it can easily be added by anyone. Wouldn't want anyone in China reading about Amnesty International, Tiananmen square, etc - or reading a 3rd party account of recent Chinese history, events, and international conflicts/disputes.

If you mean "chineselovelinks.com", then it isn't a marriage broker, just your standard "match.com" type of dating site that allows people to contact each other for many purposes, not just marriage. You shouldn't have to do anything.

Other than drop-jawed staring like I was green or on fire or something I didn't notice too much. BUT There was the Chinese guy in the restaurant who after giving my wife the "What's wrong? You can't find any nice Chinese guys?" line (in Chinese) came up to me with a big fake grin and in broken ass English "You America?" (poked finger at my chest) "You U.S.A?" "O.K. USA?" (thumbs up and a bigger faker grin). Then in Chinese to Jun "Tell him my uncle was in Korean War. Killed Americans." Then tried to look menacing and waited for my responce. About then was when the restaurant owner got between us started bitching at him in Chinese and "It ok. you go. you go." I'm not sure I'm ready to buy on the "getting scowls EVERYwhere" part, but neither am I inclined to side with those of you maintaining that China is a happy land of sunshine and gumdrops where we are all accepted regardless of our nationality or race.

And yes, there are more happy filing and biometric fees for you to pass along to your dear friends at USCIS.

Rob&Jin had good advice. If she is 19, then you should be fine, because she will probably be 20 before the interview anyway. It's advisable to wait until a few months before the likely interview to get the certificate anyway as GUZ doesn't like certificates that are too old. Now if she is only 18, you might want to direct this question to the consulate directly.

Married a Chinese National in 2005, Received my DOD secret clearance in 2006. I wasn't awarded an interum clearance, had to wait for the full thing, had to give the adjucator information on any family or contacts she still had in China, but no problem for me. Having a foreign fiancee also caused no problems with my TS-SCI clearance back in 98, and I was working at the NSA at the time (of course that was pre-9/11, and she was Japanese). The important thing is to disclose everything fully. It's not a "deal-killer" it just weighs in with all of your other information. If you are squeaky clean otherwise and there is no communist party affiliation, I wouldn't worry so much. P.S. Our security officer here is a total knob. I would have second guessed anything he told me anyway... not saying it's the same in your case, just wouldn't worry too much.

You could also look on Western Union's website to see their list of banks... it will show you names and addresses of where she could recieve it in her area. Also, as to the ATM card... forgive me, but I have to ask. Did you activate the card before you sent it to her? And did you call the bank to make sure there wasn;t some kind of automatic identity-theft protection blocking it's attempted use in China without prior notice?

Innosence? I am willing to wager that China has easily 20-30 times the number of hookers and kept women as the US. I think China is a fine place, but let's not weld those rose colored glasses on so tightly they blind us completely. Hookers and kept women are not the same as unfettered access to hard core porn over the internet. We (in the U.S.) used to have an outward innocence as well, but now we see a general coarsening of our culture and values. It's kind of a "chicken or the egg" question, but the garbage available on the internet doesn't help. P.S. I don't think porn is what the Founding Fathers had in mind when they were talking about 'freedom of expression'. Yes. Ask directions to Sodom and Gomorrah if you can not find it on a map. oh, okay... gur-hyuck! I'll ask for directions to the ark of the covenant and Eden while I'm at it too. DMike... I didn't mean to equate porn to prostitution. I meant to contrast rampant prostitution and marital infidelity (since it's in the spirit of the example, but lord knows I could find plenty of non-sex related ones) to the concept of "innocent Chinese". I think veiwing China and Chinese people as innocent and naieve is itself naieve. As for the censorship of porn, I agree it's a poor example (but it's the one the OP brought to the front) of what I am trying to express here as pornography can be something ugly and scummy that we shed no tears for. My point is it's just one example of many of how the Chinese government has taken it upon themselves to be the "Net-Nanny" of the internet removing not only pornography, but also other things such as educated discussion of human right's issues, history they want to make disappear, etc which they believe it is in people's (or is it the government's?) best interest not to read or talk about. And I don't have to be judging China in terms of our laws or a western mindset etc etc bla bla bla to say that. It's a simple litmus test really... when a government has reason to fear their own people reading something or discussing something... than that government is not working in it's citizen's best interests but rather their own. China is not NEARLY as bad about it as many countries, and as someone else said it will change gradually because their prosperity exposure to the world at large will bring about a slow evolution. Slow and steady and enduring is China's style, after all. But I do feel it's my right as a concerned party at least to voice my opinion in a forum founded for opinion sharing

Innosence? I am willing to wager that China has easily 20-30 times the number of hookers and kept women as the US. I think China is a fine place, but let's not weld those rose colored glasses on so tightly they blind us completely.

I don't recall an SSN requirement either. The 2 affadavits from a family friend, and from my father I submitted didn't have that info and we were approved without interview.

Jason, I fully agree with you in some aspects. When I referred to the slippery slope of pornography, this argument is IMHO a lot of unadulterated crap! Try this argument past your wife and see exactly HOW far you get! As to censorship of other places, I fully agree with you. They shouldn't be restricted. However, China's prosperity, in he future will change this gradually. Remember societal changes are gradual! Not Immediate. To do it another way will cause a disaster for all. China is becoming a major player on the world. The world, its people and prosperity will change. However, it will take time! Remember Korea from 1976 until approx 1981? It was considered backwards and did almost the same type of censorship in a democratic society as China does in a Communist environment! Look at S. Korea today! Censorship; some, but on the whole, very little compared to 1981. China needs to have time to make this same evolutionary change. Compare the China of Mao to Hu today. It is a gradual process that is occurring today and will continue into the future. You can't wave a "magic stick" and they are transformed overnight! Would be nice. However, it doesn't happen in the real world. However, to pornography; care to take my wager and try this line of argument past your wife? NOT a chance! You are level headed! Remember my new game of "husband-tossing!"" LOL! I will wait for even one persons response to this particular dare! I want to see what Joanne or SmilingAsias response is to this thread! I Know! I Know! They will be extremely sympathetic to the cause of pornography! Same as my wife was! LOL lol asking wouldn't get me "tossed", but posting her response would.

Cerebus, I don't see it as a "slippery slope", fact is mass censorship and suppression of free speech and expression on the web and elsewhere in China happens on a daily basis. Are porno sites getting blocked any skin off of my butt? nope. I only see it as an example of the larger problem. It's not called the great firewall of China for nothing! It is the overall mentality of the Chinese government that we can and will tell you what websites are safe/clean/acceptable that bothers me, regardless of subject matter. I can see the flip side, in that in China pornography is illegal... just as here say child porn or a how-to on building a nuclear bomb is, and our government would strip those sites down as well - so I suppose you could say the internet censorship is just a visable symptom of a larger problem... but we all knew that anyway. China might be open but it isn't "free" as we would define it, except in the sence that you are "free to mind your own damn business". At least it isn;t bad as North Korea where getting web access, or having a TV/Radio that picks up non North Korean broadcasts is a capital offense

Yes we should promote this type of behavior. Why don't we let our children subscribe to Hustler or some cable TV sex channel that shows beastiality? Let us show our future that the unglorius Sodomites are wonderful people and same sex marriage is a blessing. That would be Jolly good fun wouldn't? Pornography is for the social malcontented introverts that love to promote their a thumb and 4 fingers and beleive in fantasy lovers. You say you do not watch Porn in China? What do you do you wait until you get home and watch it so your forearms look like Popeye's? It's not about them blocking porno, Tony. It's about them blocking what they want, when they want, why they want. They also block amnesty international, personal webspace providers, etc... read what we allow = think what we allow... get it? And to continue with your statement about porn as example. You believe to not indulge in pornography is virtuous, correct? So what makes the virtue? I would say having the CHOICE and choosing the virtuous manner. You remove the choice, you remove any virtue achieved by choosing not to watch it, yes? Perhaps they should illegalize vulgar language? sweets? fatty foods? Just because it's bad for you (in certain opinions) doesn't mean it is right to illegalize it. I think it's all about face. They don't want foreigners to see Chinese porn around olympics time. That's some Chinese logic... it's ok for something to be rotten to the core as long as it's shiny on the outside. The porn choice is just what we see or hear about!! When in Beijing in early October they had built walls to cover up the very poor and run down neighborhoods! They do not want the "guests" to see anything but the good side of China!! B) They did that for a big National anniversary parade some years back also... only they actually put up facades with fake buildings etc to cover the rundown parts for the televised parade.

Yes we should promote this type of behavior. Why don't we let our children subscribe to Hustler or some cable TV sex channel that shows beastiality? Let us show our future that the unglorius Sodomites are wonderful people and same sex marriage is a blessing. That would be Jolly good fun wouldn't? Pornography is for the social malcontented introverts that love to promote their a thumb and 4 fingers and beleive in fantasy lovers. You say you do not watch Porn in China? What do you do you wait until you get home and watch it so your forearms look like Popeye's? It's not about them blocking porno, Tony. It's about them blocking what they want, when they want, why they want. They also block amnesty international, personal webspace providers, etc... read what we allow = think what we allow... get it? And to continue with your statement about porn as example. You believe to not indulge in pornography is virtuous, correct? So what makes the virtue? I would say having the CHOICE and choosing the virtuous manner. You remove the choice, you remove any virtue achieved by choosing not to watch it, yes? Perhaps they should illegalize vulgar language? sweets? fatty foods? Just because it's bad for you (in certain opinions) doesn't mean it is right to illegalize it. I think it's all about face. They don't want foreigners to see Chinese porn around olympics time. That's some Chinese logic... it's ok for something to be rotten to the core as long as it's shiny on the outside.

Dentists in the US might overcharge you, Dentists in China might leave you with Hepatitis B and rotting dead things in your jaw. Know what you are getting into.