bob&haiqing

Thanks for the pictures Dylan, laughed my butt off! Have a great weekend, Bob

Hello Randy, Thank you for the links, useful information. Contained in those posts were other links provided by GUZ that looked to be very interesting but unfortunately they were dead so I couldn't read them ... ugh! Have a great weekend, Bob

Hello zanyi, I am too new a member of CFL myself to know for certain if anyone in the past has had the experience of being asked to prove non-membership in the CCP. I would have to assume that GUZ trusts your answers unless they find out otherwise and what tools they have available to check if someone is a CCP member or not I don't know. I read another post some place on CFL that said the Chinese government is not going to make its membership rolls available to any US agency and that would logically make sense, however it does not exclude the fact that they may have other means of determining CCP membership. From what I've gathered it is more common now for people in China to work in government jobs without being CCP members, in the past it was a different situation and membership was a requirement for many jobs, this is the situation my fianc¨¦e was sucked into. Best thing to do is answer all questions on any forms and at the interview honestly and you should be ok. Best of luck, Bob

Hello nabeshin, I agree and have come to the same conclusion myself after comparing the DS-157 and GNI-2 forms. I have to believe that whichever US agency is responsible for creating these forms knows what they are asking for and because they ask it differently on both forms, logically it implies a difference. As far as these forms are concerned, it's not important what the Chinese government considers the CCP, only what the US government considers the CCP and the best I can surmise by the way the questions are asked on both those forms that the US government would consider the CCP a political organization and not a social organization unless of course one makes the argument that it is both but then it becomes a "gray" area again and since I don't feel qualified to define this "gray" area I will have to answer the questions at face value in a black or white, yes or no mode and leave it at that. So, what that means for my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing and myself is that we will not list the CCP on form DS-157 because its most accurate definition would be considered a political and not a social organization (black or white answer). We will list the CCP on the GNI-2 form which is the honest answer because the form specifically asks for past or current memberships in political organizations. If she is asked during her interview about current membership the honest answer is "no". If she is asked during her interview about past membership the honest answer is "yes" and that is the response we are focusing on explaining with documentation. If the VO is satisfied with our documentation and we get a pink that would be great, if they need more explanation and we get a blue we can deal with that. Based upon other posts I have read on CFL I don't see any reason why we should get a white denial on the CCP issue alone because she is well within the parameters of being an "involuntary member for sake of employment". I have one more post to write on this issue regarding the Chinese rules for CCP membership and the type of documentation we are compiling for our statement of explanation which I will do this weekend. Hopefully this will help others here in choosing a direction in dealing with the CCP membership issue. If anyone sees any holes in my logic please do me a big favor and blast away now! I'd rather deal with the "hard" questions now amongst friends than to be blind sided later! Best of luck, Bob

Hello nabeshin216, One important thing, tell her to stop paying membership dues NOW! I'll explain in the next few days in a follow up post on the other thread I started on this subject last week, we're still gathering facts. Be sure to follow dnoblett's advice to be honest about your situation in all questions asked on forms or at your fiancee's interview because the repercussions are high if caught misrepresenting information. Best to all, Bob

Our home casts a good shadow after the sun, so it's not sunlight that seems to be a problem, just the heat sometimes. They are soaking in water now even with the temperatures, they are very delicious. So in the end, I think everything is working out good. I suppose that is just the nature of the beast when it comes to gardening, however I am no pro. Everyone here tends to monitor what is going on with the garden, and even the flowers as well. On the other hand, I am not too concerned with the eggplant bushes. Yuck, those things can die for all I care... but they never do. http://a680.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/119/l_5551f7f61ff580130d0fcae40bd231c7.jpg Hey Dylan, One word ... soil ... try making your own compost and mixing it about 50/50 with potting soil, holds more moisture than potting soil alone. I used to have tomato plants that I would only water once every 4 or 5 days in 100 degree California heat. Let the eggplants die!!! What is this world coming to? I just love a good eggplant parmesan, I need to learn how to make it so I can show my sweet fiancee Haiqing. I hope she'll like it too ... the cheese, the olive oil, the eggplant, the garlic ... gotta run, I'm hungry now! Best to all, Bob

Hello David, You are right, there is a gray area in the DS-157 as it does not specifically use the word "political" whereas the GNI-2 does. Our objective with understanding the Chinese law on this issue was to comply honestly with the US laws in answering any forms and interview questions. Of course we are hoping for a pink but can accept getting the blue if that happens. We just want to be prepared for it so that the transition from blue to pink can be as quick and seemless as possible. Also, thanks for the procedural information, I always like to know how things work. Best to all, Bob

Thanks. I think you put it very perfect right here. That is exactly how I anticipated my trip as well as her arrival here. I think that's what I like best about such a relationship, is that at home, it isn't just 1 thing, it is a mix of both worlds, in so many different ways! The sun is tending to bake my tomato plants, however I haven't had any bugs or birds eat my harvest this year. Knock on wood. You hit the nail right on the head Dylan, it's a mix of both worlds! It is critically important to me to create an environment where my sweet Haiqing feels absolutely comfortable to do anything that is important to her. I have told her that it's not about "a right way or a wrong way" ... it's just a different way and different is ok. I told her that our home can be a mix of east and west, American and Chinese, put together in a way that creates a loving environment that we will always enjoy being together in. It is not important whether anyone else understands it or not, it is only important that the mix works for us! On the other subject: Can you get a little of that shade screen to put over your tomatoes? This time of year the sun will cook em! If you want drop me a pm and I'll give you some tips I learned dealing with the California sun which can be brutal at times. Best of luck, Bob

Hello Minister, nice to cyber-meet you, Maybe you and your wife could consider taking an adult education Chinese cooking class together, all for the purpose of getting out and having some fun together. You may get big brownie points for showing and interest in Chinese cooking, she could expand her experiences with new dishes and the whole thing is done at a third party location taking the pressure out of your kitchen. If she really enjoys it maybe you can try a French or Mexican cooking class just to spice things up a bit! I have it a little easier than most of the guys here seem to have it. I've been vegetarian for over 23 years, have a very clean diet for the most part although chocolate and Chicago deep dish pizza I will never pass on. I love Chinese food, even when I'm in China, and have eaten everything put in front of me with the exception of beef, pork or foul. My sweet fiancee Haiqing is a fabulous cook and the only times we saw the inside of a MacDonald's or Pizza Hut was because either she or her son wanted to go there ... not me! She makes numerous types of dishes and amazed me with fresh homemade fish dumplings for Chinese New Years ... they were fantastic! I actually put on a little weight while I was with her for four months. I even enjoy the wet rice/gruel/congee because she prepares it in several different ways and you know what, your wife is right, aside from the salt a Chinese diet is much healthier for you so if you can slowly become accustomed to it you are actually doing yourself a good thing. Like most Chinese people, my sweet Haiqing does not like things too sweet and prefers salty food. I explained to her how the salt was not good for me because when I go to Tae Kwon Do I can actually feel it in my joints ... if I've eaten something salty it feels as if I have sand in my joints that night so my sweet Haiqing cut way back on the salt and found that she likes it that way just fine. Ah yes, fish head soup, had it several times. Actually fish head soup is considered a delicacy and my sweet Haiqing tells me that a good fish head costs more than the rest of the entire fish! Eating the brains will make you intelligent, eating the eyes will give you good vision ... I have eaten both and would say that I didn't notice any immediate results (except being a little creeped about eating the eyeballs) ... perhaps I haven't eaten enough for the benefits to take effect but I'm sure I'll have plenty more opportunities when my sweet Haiqing gets here. She tells me that many Chinese foods have a purpose, if you want to be happy, you eat this, if you want to be smart, you eat this, if you want to be a better lover, you eat this ... ask your wife to tell you the purpose of some of the foods, she may be surprised you ask! The thing I like to remember is that life is an experiment ... so experiment and enjoy it! I told my sweet Haiqing that if I come to China expecting it to be like the USA that I will be very disappointed, but if I can go to China understanding that it will be different and enjoy those differences then I will have a wonderful time, and I told her if she come to the USA expecting it to be like China she will be very disappointed too, but if she can come to the USA understanding that it will be different and enjoy those differences then she too will have a wonderful time here. She is very intelligent, curious, witty and excited about coming here to be with me so I'm sure that will go a long way towards making her adjustment a little smoother. BTW, I love your tomatoes Dylan! I used to grow tomatoes in five gallon pots in California and one year they were eight feet tall! Best to all, Bob

Hello nabeshin216, Welcome to CFL. I'm a relatively new member also and posted the same question last week on this forum and someone else posted the same concern in another forum just a few hours after me. Below are links to the original threads that contain some useful links to past posts on this issue. http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31912 http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31913 Watch these threads because I'm hoping in the next few days to post a follow up with some good information my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing discovered about Chinese law and the CCP. She has sent me a Chinese copy and she is trying to find and English copy so I can post them here together. Understanding the Chinese law gives you valuable information about how to answer questions on any forms you need to complete as well as how to deal with questions that may come up at your fianc¨¦e's interview. Thanks to other member who replied to those two threads we were able to come up with a good way to handle this issue. Best of luck, Bob

Hah, yes your Fiancee must be on 001. My girl posted my report there and made alot of the girls happy to have something in english to send to their SO. By the way, welcome to CFL and the best of luck to you and your Fiancee. Hey Brian, Thank you. Yes, I'm sure you're correct about my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing picking up the post on 001 because in the email she sent me there was lots of Chinese writing at the top, which I can't read. I'm glad your fianc¨¦e posted it there because it made us aware of CFL, prior to that I had never heard of it and this site is a great resource for anyone going through this process. I notice that your POE will be Chicago. I've been through LAX numerous times coming back from China and Chicago once and we will be using Chicago as our POE once we get to that point so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind giving me a heads-up with the procedures you experience coming through ORD, we'd both appreciate it. Have a safe trip home and welcome your fianc¨¦e to the USA! Bob

Hello Tom and dnoblett, Yes, we have this topic going in two places at the moment, I posted here just a few hours before Hello123 posted the same topic in the other thread. I did catch both your posts on the other thread and I'm certainly relieved that we should be able to avoid the DS-230 part II form, it's the DS-157 form that puts a potential stumbling block in our path with the "gray" area of what can be considered a correct answer. A false move now could come back to bite us later and I don't want that to happen hence my tendency to simply put the CCP on the form now and deal with it. Anyway, thank you both for all your efforts and the links, I'll certainly check them out later tonight after I return from Tae Kwon Do ... now it's time to go kick the "gray" area out of something! Best to all, Bob

Hello Tom and dnoblett, Thank you guys for the "heads up" on those forms. We are going the K1 visa route and we're currently waiting for our P3 package from the Embassy in Guangzhou. If we do need to fill out the DS-157 form I think the best way to deal with it would be for her to list the CCP in question 13. I don't want to put my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing in the position of "splitting hairs" with the definition of the CCP and whether or not it falls under one of the listed categories. This could possibly put her in a verbal arm wrestling match over it with the VO. Too much pressure for her and I don't see it being a path to a good outcome. If I were the one being interviewed I might consider otherwise but that is not the case. We don't know whether or not she'll be called on this but we are starting to prepare documents including her notarized statement of explanation, her resume showing the jobs she had that required CCP membership and we may ask for notarized statements from family and/or professional associates familiar with her work requirement situation. She will take this with her to the interview so that if she is asked the CCP question she can provide them to the VO who will hopefully recognize her situation for what it is and give her a blue slip rather than a white slip. On a side note: She sent me an email this morning telling me the story of a woman who was in this exact same situation. She prepared four things for her interview. 1) her statement of explanation, 2) a statement from her boss stating that she was a general member and not a higher official, 3) a statement from the company she worked for stating she joined for employment but was not an active member, and 4) a copy of her resume showing that her job position was not sensitive. This woman was asked about being a CCP member during her interview, answered honestly, provided these forms and was given a blue slip and told to wait as she would hear from the Embassy within four months (during which time I assumed they did a deeper background check on her). At the end of four months she received her visa to the USA. I think these are very good things to have going into one's interview, however, my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing can not get a statement from her boss or from the company she works for because she would probably lose her job immediately. It's not that her job is so important or sensitive because it's not ... it's more like we're all afraid of the "boogie man" on the other side of the fence. If I were to marry her in China we'd have to drop the K1 visa approach which from my reading can have bad repercussions of it's own and start the process over again via the K2 route. While this is an option, I think I would only consider it as a last ditch effort if all else failed. If she is not asked the CCP question she could be here by October perhaps. If she gets a blue slip then maybe we're talking January/February. If we start all over ... let's put it this way, I don't want to wait that long! That's good news dnoblett if the GUZ does not require DS-230 part II for K1 visas because that is the route we are going and that would allow us to dodge the bullet for now. Someone else mentioned in one of the posts that the CCP issue will come up during the AOS process but it's much easier to deal with at that point. I agree with you 100% that honesty is the best policy with this process. I would be devastated to have my sweet Haiqing here with me only to have her deported because we didn't want to deal with the slight inconvenience of a blue slip and lied to just to avoid it ... not good logic in my opinion. I know that sometimes this process does not seem easy but if you think about it I would bet that the staff and VO's working at the Embassy feel the same way. They have the important job of protecting us, the citizens of the USA while at the same time having to weigh the desires of those wanting to come here. They have only the tools of the laws governing this situation and their own instincts to guide them and to complicate the matter each one of our cases has it's own unique set of circumstances. We have some things in common, but each case is peppered with variables as well. When I put myself in their shoes I think that it is in our own best interest to attempt to understand the laws and requirements as best we can so we can in essence work together with the staff and VO's at the Embassy and make their job a bit easier. I think this helps us all and it seems to me that CFL is a great place to do this with many good people here willing to help each other with lots of great ideas, thanks everybody. Best to all, Bob

Hello Tom and Hello123, From what my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing has told me if you don't pay your dues for six months by Chinese law you should automatically no longer be a CCP member. I like your idea very much about officially quitting and for someone like Hello123 and his fianc¨¦e this could work but since his fianc¨¦e has stopped paying her dues over a year and a half ago by law she should no longer be a CCP member (noting that the operative word in the last two sentences is "should"). Since Hello123's fianc¨¦e doesn't appear to have anything to lose by officially quitting it may be an option for them. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing stopped paying her dues almost six months ago so soon she should (there's that word again) technically not be a CCP member. It would probably make good sense for her to officially quit however her current job requires that she is a CCP member so if she officially quit some eyebrows would certainly raise and she will jeopardize her job! She is hoping to simply slip under the radar for now so we'll play it one day at a time. She's one of those "involuntary membership paying dues for the purpose of employment". As I mentioned in an earlier post, she's in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation so I think for us playing it cool is the best option right now. Yes Hello123, I was interested in your post the other day because I posted this topic on another thread just a few hours before you did on this one ... what are the odds? Both first posts for new members as well and just about at the same place in this visa process ... perhaps we'll meet up at the Embassy in Guangzhou for interview day ... given our track record so far I'd give it pretty good odds! Best to all, Bob

Congratulations Brian to you and your fianc¨¦e! My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing actually was the one who saw your post. She copied and pasted it in and email to me and your wonderful and thorough accounting of the experience convinced me to seek out and join CFL a few days ago. Thank you again for your terrific post! I too hope to someday soon come to this forum and yell PINK!!! just as loud as I can. Best to you both, Bob

Hello Tom, I agree with Rob, any receipts that have your name on it are gold, the rest only add fat and no muscle to your package. Anyone can pick up old train tickets off the floor at any train station in China. Passport visa stamps, airline tickets/boarding passes with your names on them or credit card purchase receipts with your credit card number and/or name on them like hotel receipts or like Dylan mentioned engagement and/or wedding rings purchased at a Chinese jewelry store with your credit card number or pictures of engraved wedding rings with your names in them are all valuable proof and should be kept and well organized. These are the things we included in our package. All the taxi, bus and train receipts stayed home with the restaurant receipts paid for with cash (no credit card number). We sent copies of the original with our package. What I have been doing is to scan all appropriate items that need to be saved as pdf files in my laptop, I then print a copy of the pdf file to send in any packages. I make a backup copy of all important items from my laptop to an external hard drive just in case and also give a copy of all the pdf files to my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing for her to keep handy on her computer in China. All original are kept in a plastic folder and the really important originals are kept in my safe. I'll take them with me when I go to China again so I have all originals there just in case we need any of them. Best of luck, Bob

Hey there Hello123, It appears that you are about two weeks ahead of us in this process, you filed on 1/11/08 and we filed on 1/24/08. It seems to me that you have much less to be concerned with than my sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing and I do. Your fianc¨¦e was only a member for a relatively short period of time and she quit paying dues over a year and a half ago so by the time you get your interview it will be very close to the two years non-membership that seems to be acceptable. My sweet Haiqing on the other hand was a dues paying only member for about twenty-two years and stopped paying her dues six months ago. She too was young and in college when talked into joining. I'm just hoping that no one at the Embassy in Guangzhou asks her the question on her interview day and if they do I hope her letter of explanation and support document will get here through the "legal loop hole". I would guess the odds are sort of like an umpire calling a ball game ... some days it's a strike, some days it's a ball and when your package is "painting the edges" as ours are the call could go either way although I must say that I think your odds are stacked a bit better than ours ... take a deep breath and I'll take three or four! Best of luck, Bob

Thank you xiaofeizhu, I'm glad to be here. I noticed that you are in Hawaii. My lovely fianc¨¦e Haiqing has a very good and close friend that just moved to Hawaii from Shenzhen last October and married a fellow there. Perhaps one day we can all get together and share stories of China, I'm sure my sweet Haiqing would enjoy it very much. Best to you, Bob

Thank you Carl, I have already explained to my lovely Haiqing that lying is not an option here as it could potentially destroy any hopes of her getting a visa. I would much rather deal with the inconvenience of a delay than to totally lose any chance of her coming here to be with me, not worth the risk! I mentioned in my other post on the other thread that she has already stopped paying dues as of Jan. 23, 2008 when we sent in our I-129 package to the USCIS. At some point she will automatically lose her CCP membership because of non-payment of dues but she also has potentially put herself at risk of losing her job. For now she is just keeping a low profile and we'll deal with things as they develop. Honestly people in China do not have much of a choice, it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for them. It's a shame that the law here in the USA for this has not been revised somehow, after all, these are not bad or evil people, they are simply trying to do the best they can with their given situation ... the same thing we do here! I noticed in your signature that your wife has her citizenship test coming up in two days! WOW ... we wish her much luck! Best to all, Bob

Welcome Hello123, I am a new member also as of yesterday and would you believe my first post on another thread earlier today expresses the exact same concern as your's! http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=31912 I followed Roger's and lostinblue's links and they lead to some good information, thank you both. My fianc¨¦e and I have discussed this previously and at this point I think I'm going to suggest to my sweet Haiqing that we proceed forward and hope that the question about being a CCP member is not asked during her interview and if it is she'll be prepared with a notarized letter of explanation together with as much support evidence as we can come up with and hope that the VO interprets it for what it is, an involuntary dues paying membership only for the sake of employment and allows her through the "legal loop hole" and does not hand her a blue slip. I have already told her not to worry about any delays due to a blue slip because I am going to see her in China within the next two months regardless and since I have my own business, I'm 100% mobile and can work from anywhere we can simply wait for our pink together in China even if it takes another six months. I like to think that this is not the end of the world, only a temporary delay and true love will find a way to deal with it. Best of luck, Bob

Hello everyone, I am a new member as of yesterday and this is my first post, I hope I'm placing it in the correct forum. My sweet fianc¨¦e Haiqing copied and pasted Brian's wonderful account of his fianc¨¦e's interview experience and sent it to me in an email which made me search out and find this website, thank you Brian. I've been reading many of the posts and I appreciate the many experiences and wealth of information available here. During my reading I came across something that has thrown up a red flag of concern for me. Under "links and resources" there is a pinned post titled "Interview Preparation, Kitchen Sink, questions, etc", under "Top 10 Most Common Questions" is number 10. Are you a communist? [Establishes any ineligibility] ... RED FLAG!!! Here is the situation: My fianc¨¦e Haiqing is a member of the CCP (Chinese Communist Party). She has been a member for many years since she was in her last year of college where she did very well and it was strongly recommended to her that she join in order to secure a better job and ensure her future and being young at the time she joined. She has never been involved in the party other than paying dues. She has never been a director of any board nor attended any meetings or any other organized events. Her only purpose for being a member was to secure a better job which has allowed he to do better than she might have otherwise. She has stopped paying dues, even though this could jeopardize her job, as of January 23, 2008 when we sent in our I-129 K1/K2 visa package and from what I understand that since she has stopped paying dues her membership in the CCP will automatically expire at some point but I don't know when that is. I have told her that if any of the forms ask if she is a member of the CCP to say yes and tell the truth and to also answer honestly to the VO during her interview or to anyone else at the US Embassy as lying will guarantee a denial of a visa and could jeopardize any future hopes of getting one whereas telling the truth may only delay getting a visa and we can deal with that. She has written a letter of explanation regarding how and why she is a member of the CCP and that she would willingly relinquish any allegiance to such. My questions are this: Has anyone had any experience with this matter and has it caused a delay (blue) or denial (white) paper during their interview? Has anyone had the same situation and received an approval (pink)? Would it be a good idea for her to include her letter of explanation with her P3 package when she returns it to the Embassy rather than be asked about it at the interview and not be able to show the letter? In general, how best to handle this? Also, any other information relating to this subject that would help our situation would be greatly appreciated. Best to all, Bob