Mick

I lived in China with my spouse for five-plus years and really flourished there. I enjoyed my life over there for many of the reasons already mentioned. I can't say there were no difficulties, there certainly were. My main issue was being relatively strapped language wise. I speak some Chinese but am far from fluent. My other concern was health care. I have a significant cardiac problem and things can get kind of iffy over there in that regard. Still, all in all, I would move there again if I had it to do over again. I loved being with my lady and experiencing her culture for an extended period of time was very helpful.

Wow, Kyle. My experience teaching at the university was the polar opposite of what you describe. The vast majority of my students were highly motivated. Maybe it was due to the fact that I taught only English majors (Literature and Advanced Reading) and post-graduate Journalism majors working on their Masters Degrees. Li taught other undergraduates and, for the most part, they were also well-motivated. The place where I encountered the highest number of non-motivated students was when I taught English to employees in private companies. Many of them had no interest in being there. After about two years of doing this during semester breaks, I refused to take these gigs anymore.

I taught for five years at universities in China. The first year, at one school, was ok, but highly restrictive in many ways. The next four years, at another university down in Guangdong, was an absolute joy. I loved it there and would go back if health concerns permitted. I also did some other work during semester breaks and in the summer, teaching English to management staff at various companies. That was ok as well and the pay was decent. I also had one gig teaching English to the restaurant staff at a five star hotel. The first thing I taught them how to say was "It's on the house." Naturally, from then on I ate for free. Most private English schools are in it for the money, pure and simple. You will be used as a "draw" and if you don't watch it, worked to death. If you go the university route, try to get a good feel for your "Foreign Affairs Officer" otherwise known as the FAO. A good one can make you stay heavenly. Conversely, a bad one can make it hell. Try to tallk to other teachers before signing on if possible. Also, check out your accomodations.

That is really great news. Congrats to the new LMT. Now trained in both countries, she should be able to offer unique methodologies for a wide array of problems and conditions.

Great news indeed Robert. I am really happy for you guys. Have a wonderful life together.

Nice site. Thanks.

I lived there over five years and never, ever considered driving. It seems there are no discernable laws except the one that says "when in doubt, blow your horn."

Once she does go to work, just wait until she gets her first paycheck and discovers the wonders of income tax. Be prepared for an explosion of great magnitude. When we went through Li's first paycheck, I was reminded of a line delivered by the spoiled girl on "That 70's Show" when she got her first paycheck.... "And somebody please tell me, just who the hell is this Fica bitch?"

Indeed, a great site. Wish I had such a resource when I first moved to China way back when. I am not so sure one can break things down into handy little stages like that, although psychologists love to do such lists.

Now that is really interesting that an industry has grown up around the one-month custom. It makes sense, though in an area where there is a large Chinese population. I wonder if they have similar places in New York, San Fran, etc.?

When Li gave birth to Salina, she was up and about on Day Two and back to work in five days. The one-month confinement was discussed and at the time her employer laughed until I thought she was going to die. I understand that it is a tradition in China and it would be great here as well, but without family close by to take care of her and extended maternal leave, it isn't very practical. I wish Li could have done it, but she said she would have gone nuts if she was confined that long.

Hey Don, those yellow gold stamps were Top Value stamps, the biggest rival for S&H. I remember most all of those things and often long for the innocence and simplicity of those halcyon years. About going out to a real restaurant, in the little town where I grew up on the southwest coast of Florida (Venice), there was a little restaurant called "The King's Table." I loved it when my folks took us there to eat. I always had roast beef and mashed potatos. It was to die for. And baseball, my God did I ever play baseball, mostly without adults, sunup to sundown in the summer.

Congrats and best wishes Robert. Now the real training begins. One word of advice, before she arrives, remember to clean UNDER the toilet seat.

Glad you're back safe and sound. Enjoy the new game you bought and try to get some rest. Jet lag can be a real pain in the butt at times. Sounds like the news from DOS was positive and that is what is important.

Very true !!!!!!!!!!! If they crossed the Pacific, that would involve a trip through the Panama Canal to get to New York. That would also be fun.

Have a great trip and enjoy the crowds. Seriously, have a wonderful time.

Don, it has been a lot of years since those days but I still remember them like it was yesterday. The absolute insanity of the situation was the worst part. Like you said, they kept changing the procedure in mid-stream and it seem GUZ, DOS, and FBI were never on the same page. It was an absolute hell hole for anyone who was stuck in it. And if you recall, we got stuck in the Black Hole because GUZ mailed our P3 to the wrong address, backing everything up five weeks. Like you said, I only hope nothing of that magnitude ever strikes again.

Yeah, all we know for sure is that on July 22, 2002, the rules changed, requiring the security clearance to be completed and back in GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. And when I look back on the domino effect of that one change, the term Black Hole seems so appropriate. The worse part Robert, and you and all of us who went through it know, was the total lack of credible information. For those who weren't around back in those days of horror and woe, don't know what fun you missed. The rule change required the FBI to complete the background check and send it back to GZ prior to the issuance of the visa. Only problem was, somebody forgot to tell the FBI. As a result, most of our cases sat around on various FBI desks for months. What's worse, there was a 90 day window and, if the check was not completed, it had to be resubmitted. Ours was resubmitted at least twice, maybe three times. By the time they got to the second one, the first one had timed out. I could go on and on. Li's visa was approved on August 20, 2002 and they said we could get it in "around 30 days." We picked up our visa, finally, on March 10, 2003. And that was after waiting almost a year, just for the initial interview. Those were, indeed, the days my friend, we thought they'd never end....we'd sing and dance, forever and a day....

May 8, 1999 - a date that will always be remembered in China, but I doubt many of us here in the States remember why it is significant. I, for one, do remember it all too well. I was living in Hefei at the time, Anhui Provencial Capital. Li and I had gone out to celebrate her birthday (May 7) and returned to campus about 11 pm. We did not live together at the time as we were not yet married. Around 2 am she called me in hysterics asking if I was alright. "I think so, why do you ask?" I said as the first bottle flew through my apartment window. Within an hour every window I had was gone. It was on that day, May 8, 1999, using "outdated maps" NATO bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, killing 3 people. I have told this story here before, so I won't go into the details, except to say that my apartment was surrounded by an angry, slogan spewing, bottle throwing mob. I was confined to my apartment for my own safety for five days or so, and subsisted on instant noodles and nothing else. Somewhere, either in this thread, or another, Robert S. alluded to the fact that perhaps our governments have arrangements that we are not aware of. I am convinced this was one. The students and other rebel rousers marched in the streets with anti-American fervor for five days, then stopped altogether. Not a peep on the sixth day and all was back to normal. Now here is what I am convinced happened, and was later told by a fairly high ranking party official. The bombing happened, by arrangement between Washington and Beijing. This was three weeks prior to the 10th anniversary of Tiannammen Square and the government was really fearful of mass demonstrations. What better way to avoid that than to get the folks into the streets before that and drain off any buidling violence, not to mention distract their folks anger onto another "devil" besides their own government. After five days, not only did the demonstrations stop, but any mention of the bombing was never mentioned again in the official press. It never happend. Four days later, Beijing made a few concessions the US wanted that was holding up China's entry into the WTO. China was admitted not long after that. Moral: You help us and we will give you the concessions you want. Great. What do you want us to do? Bomb our embassy. We need to let our folks blow off steam before June 3. Will do. Over and out. You may think this kind of thing doesn't happen, but let me assure you it does. This guy who spilled all of this was no lower ranking party hack. He was on up there in the Party at a national level. Sometimes, we never know what is really going on.

Great news, indeed. Congrats!

Robert, do you think it would do any good to go back to ACH and ask how long? Is it possible you could get it resolved while you are there?

There has always been a strong current of xenophobia in China and there has, at times, been good reason for this. When I lived in China (97-03), this xenophobia was readily apparent, especially in some of the more conservative areas. My first year was spent in Anhui and it was palatable there. I think it is less so now. My last four years were down in Guangdong, in Shantou. Less fear of contamination there it seems as the area has a long history of commerce with outside cultures. I think we already see some of the Chinese influence in our culture with the proliferation of Chinese character tatoos for example. More meaningful examples are found in the great interest in TCM, Qigong, Taiji, and the like. There is now a popular cartoon for young kids featuring a Chinese main character. Show is called "Ni Hao Kai Lan" or something to that effect. Salina watches it every day. When I lived in Miami back in the 80's and 90's I taught qigong and taiji classes and they were always full with a waiting list. Nowadays, Chinese language classes are becoming increasingly popular.

Incredible!!!!!!!! I read the article and as I was scrolling down I saw the photo of the couple. The woman in the photo could be Li's twin sister! Looks exactly like she did when we met way back when.

In China it is usually the family's responsibility to take care of their own when they are in the hospital. This includes cooking for them, cleaning them, etc. Does she understand that it is different in the States....? Maybe she feels there will be no one there to care for you.

Yeah Sam, I'll get right on the phone and ask her that. This whole thing is one never ending circle which I stepped outside of a f'ing long time ago. Politics is something she and I laugh at, and what I posted above was the most indepth (5 minutes worth) that we have ever gotten...and if I can help it, EVER WILL. I have strategically withdrawn many moons ago. tsap seui Sure don't blame you for pulling out of politics, tsap. I pretty much did the same thing after also being victim of American foreign policy. I vividly recall being in base camp near Pleiku, packing up my medicine bag for a pleasure packed foray into the nearby jungle. On the loud speaker came a live speech being broadcast on Armed Forces Radio. It was early '69 and Nixon had recently taken office. He was saying something to the effect: "Let me make this perfectly clear. Our troops are not engaged, have never been engaged, and never will be engaged in military operations in Cambodia." As he was speaking, the jets were going overhead, on their way to Cambodia, which was 10 miles away. Meanwhile, I continued my packing and we left shortly thereafter. You'll never guess where we were headed..... I pretty much soured on politicians that day....