Dan R

I don't know both get the belly filled. I never starved on my own.

As far as I can find, Giles published the first English translation in 1910. It was loosely interpreted into French at the time of Napoleon. I don't know what sections or how acruately. It is a hot debate among Napoleonic scholars whether Napoleon read the interpretation.

even earlier Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Sun-tzu Chinese general & military strategist (~400 BC) But would Lincoln have heard of either of them in 1860? He was an avid reader but when were they translated to English?

at it's most basic level, yin yang is the interconnectedness of life; it is practially speaking, two sides of one coin. In metaphor, it certainly can be as Dan says about trees and forest; no matter what you see, there is something more out there that makes it more complete on another level. We tend to see and experience in discrete ways and not complete ways; that is what 'enlightenment' is ultimately offering, the chance to see beyond what you see; to see the infinity of it all till you see nothing. So this could be applied in some ways as you are mentioning, but it's a very loose application of yin yang since it is really about balance based on a larger perspective... so if you see the balancing aspect then it is good. What should be kept in mind is, in the application, at it's core, yin yang beckons one to return back to simplicity, back to undivided wholes... So desire to learn more and more and more on it's own, may not be complete balance... to accept that, the more I learn the less I know is a bit of balance since "knowing" and "not knowing" are part of the whole. To attempt to exhaust "knowing" may create imbalance. If you spin the symbol it blurs into one. division is the minds attempt to define its environment.

You know Dan, you posted something the other day, in another thread about the ying and yang when it comes to the differences we all express in our perceptions of East and West. Others have posted thoughts about, and I paraphrase, "that many posting here are over-complicating the issues." With China's more than 5000 year history, and the US with about 250 years, it really seems an equation that will not balance. I remember several years ago, saying, "I will never be satisfied, and want to always seek more, learn more, and find deeper meaning." It began a great debate between some of my fellow classmates, who were troubled that I would always be seeking and never finding. I tried to correct their perception, in by explaining that I was enjoying what I saw, but always believed that there would be more behind what I saw and perceived. I guess this thinking still lives deep in my psyche somewhere, as I enjoy finding explanations for the things that are. But, when I look back those many years ago to that conversation, I can see that I've missed out on so many of the simple things in life, that defy explanation. Perhaps they are best explained in the ying, and the yang.... So might you say "Don't miss the forest for the trees"? I am still working on this one. I research things until I am satisfied I know enough about them. It gives me great satisfaction but rarely do I need that much. I am trying to learn to research enough for pleasure but enjoy the bigger picture. When you apply the yin yang it kind of makes understanding or seeking unnecessary I think. Because when you quantify you limit reality. Perhaps it is aging or maybe not finding meaningfullness in the search. The past few years I find myself content with having less and less which seems to be more. Do I make any sense? No Dan... But seriously has there been even one post here that has not been... and it has been the Cali contingent that has dragged it off course the most... I think I'll go down and HIJACK youse guys meet-up thingie... Love you too Rog.

You know Dan, you posted something the other day, in another thread about the ying and yang when it comes to the differences we all express in our perceptions of East and West. Others have posted thoughts about, and I paraphrase, "that many posting here are over-complicating the issues." With China's more than 5000 year history, and the US with about 250 years, it really seems an equation that will not balance. I remember several years ago, saying, "I will never be satisfied, and want to always seek more, learn more, and find deeper meaning." It began a great debate between some of my fellow classmates, who were troubled that I would always be seeking and never finding. I tried to correct their perception, in by explaining that I was enjoying what I saw, but always believed that there would be more behind what I saw and perceived. I guess this thinking still lives deep in my psyche somewhere, as I enjoy finding explanations for the things that are. But, when I look back those many years ago to that conversation, I can see that I've missed out on so many of the simple things in life, that defy explanation. Perhaps they are best explained in the ying, and the yang.... So might you say "Don't miss the forest for the trees"? I am still working on this one. I research things until I am satisfied I know enough about them. It gives me great satisfaction but rarely do I need that much. I am trying to learn to research enough for pleasure but enjoy the bigger picture. When you apply the yin yang it kind of makes understanding or seeking unnecessary I think. Because when you quantify you limit reality. Perhaps it is aging or maybe not finding meaningfullness in the search. The past few years I find myself content with having less and less which seems to be more. Do I make any sense?

That is the problem. We had building booms in the 1950's & 60's. That is post WW2. But it was about fifty years ago. Technology has changed from then and we are not up on it. the country has grown but the infrastructure did not keep up. In the fifties and sixties China also did much building but it was cheap and barely adequate. There was no choice but to replace crumbling infrastructure. We need to stop patching and replace. Maybe then L.A. will stop having rolling blackouts. I can't be the only one when returning from China who feels like our cities are simple villages by comparison? Cripes, when flying over LA after returning from Nanning it was really weird to hardly see any building over a few stories tall. It really was a bit humbling to not see a building crane. Made me wonder how we rate as the worlds richest country with so few people. China is so rich and vibrant. I suppose, unless you live in downtown Manhattan nothing else compares. I am missing China terribly tonight. Am I off topic? Perhaps the difference is China's history of multifamily dwellings and that you don't own the land. In the USA we have the frontier spirit. Daniel Boone would move as soon as he could see the next neighbor's house from his home. We also have the American Dream of house and land ownership. I am glad L.A. is mostly 1 or 2 stories high. After all we do have earthquakes. They say the most deaths and injuries, when the big one comes, will be from falling glass downtown. As for missing China..... shut up Dennis. Ping isn't back yet and I am really in need of a vacation. Bro, I hope you know I said shut up out of frustration and not to be rude to you. Ok back to topic!

That is the problem. We had building booms in the 1950's & 60's. That is post WW2. But it was about fifty years ago. Technology has changed from then and we are not up on it. the country has grown but the infrastructure did not keep up. In the fifties and sixties China also did much building but it was cheap and barely adequate. There was no choice but to replace crumbling infrastructure. We need to stop patching and replace. Maybe then L.A. will stop having rolling blackouts. I can't be the only one when returning from China who feels like our cities are simple villages by comparison? Cripes, when flying over LA after returning from Nanning it was really weird to hardly see any building over a few stories tall. It really was a bit humbling to not see a building crane. Made me wonder how we rate as the worlds richest country with so few people. China is so rich and vibrant. I suppose, unless you live in downtown Manhattan nothing else compares. I am missing China terribly tonight. Am I off topic? Perhaps the difference is China's history of multifamily dwellings and that you don't own the land. In the USA we have the frontier spirit. Daniel Boone would move as soon as he could see the next neighbor's house from his home. We also have the American Dream of house and land ownership. I am glad L.A. is mostly 1 or 2 stories high. After all we do have earthquakes. They say the most deaths and injuries, when the big one comes, will be from falling glass downtown. As for missing China..... shut up Dennis. Ping isn't back yet and I am really in need of a vacation.

That is the problem. We had building booms in the 1950's & 60's. That is post WW2. But it was about fifty years ago. Technology has changed from then and we are not up on it. the country has grown but the infrastructure did not keep up. In the fifties and sixties China also did much building but it was cheap and barely adequate. There was no choice but to replace crumbling infrastructure. We need to stop patching and replace. Maybe then L.A. will stop having rolling blackouts. I can't be the only one when returning from China who feels like our cities are simple villages by comparison? Cripes, when flying over LA after returning from Nanning it was really weird to hardly see any building over a few stories tall. It really was a bit humbling to not see a building crane. Made me wonder how we rate as the worlds richest country with so few people. China is so rich and vibrant. I suppose, unless you live in downtown Manhattan nothing else compares. I am missing China terribly tonight. Am I off topic? Perhaps the difference is China's history of multifamily dwellings and that you don't own the land. In the USA we have the frontier spirit. Daniel Boone would move as soon as he could see the next neighbor's house from his home. We also have the American Dream of house and land ownership. I am glad L.A. is mostly 1 or 2 stories high. After all we do have earthquakes. They say the most deaths and injuries, when the big one comes, will be from falling glass downtown.

your probably right... it is probably an impossible task requiring too much serious sorting out... My bad If you cut through the tangle it falls apart. Danny, you're starting to sound like David. There is worse B)

your probably right... it is probably an impossible task requiring too much serious sorting out... My bad B) If you cut through the tangle it falls apart.

That is the problem. We had building booms in the 1950's & 60's. That is post WW2. But it was about fifty years ago. Technology has changed from then and we are not up on it. the country has grown but the infrastructure did not keep up. In the fifties and sixties China also did much building but it was cheap and barely adequate. There was no choice but to replace crumbling infrastructure. We need to stop patching and replace. Maybe then L.A. will stop having rolling blackouts.

Carl, while I'm in China we plan to travel quite a bit and see different cities, of course that means I'll want to meet other CFLers. I'd be happy to help you if the circumstances worked out. I'm gonna be checking out building suppy shops in our area to see what is out there, and I'd like to go out with a crew and see how they do things with all that concrete...heck, I'm used to furrin' out concrete walls and hangin' drywall. I'm already missing my 12" chopsaw, my drills and sawzall, and circular saw...and the challenge of takin' shit and makin' shine-ola out of it. With wood, I can do anything, run wires, and do the plumbing. Chinese building looks like you need a jack hammer to make channels for the wires and become good at staying on your knees while you set ceramic tiles and then install them on the walls...and then you need to be a good plasterer...I'd recommend you go out with an old guy who does walls and learn his trade...... Who am I kiddin'? I'm gonna be like tsap seui in Wonderland in the magical rabbit hole....I'll be lucky to even come up for air...I'll shaddup now. tsap seui So what kinda magic could ya work in this outhouse (inside of course) http://i42.tinypic.com/26400ts.jpg Being a westerner I would need 2 X 4's and 2 X 6's and some furring strips...the Chinese worker would look at this and see, sand, bricks, and tons of mortar...I'll have to pass on this one. tsap seui Geez this is too simple...2 words... WHITE TILES... Think acres and acres of white tiles and you understand China... But what about the floor? It's sunk in almost a foot. B) Same thingie in our houses Cuzin'...You decide where you want everything, they slap it in and cement over the whole ball of wax...Then if it leaks it goes into the floor below you...Did I 'splain why we only bought houses on the top floor??? Add an S trap to the plumbing. White tile ????????? cheapskate! go with polished granite.

do you really want to learn, have you time ? Would you please define Shamanism (saaman,. a. Ural-Altaic. Mongolian. word. meaning. healer) as you are using it. The word comes from Mongolia and applies to the healers of the people from Mongolia. This includes the Laplander "Sami" & Native American healers. In general terms it is applied to any indiginous healers who use tools to focus the energetic power found everywhere. Mongolia has tried suppressing Shamanism as the Shamans have strong influence and support old ways. Shamanism (in the general sense) has never been eradicated by priestly religions. Traditionally Shamans were women. Transition From Shamans to Priests generally followed societies transition from matriarchy to patriarchy. The transition can be found in myths from most cultures. Feng Sui is still practised and is a Shamanistic belief system. Qi Gung believes only in the power to use energy by the individual's mind. They are opposed to Feng Sui as using tools rather than strictly mind. Tools or objects having power is a feature of Shamanism. Yoga teaches that this power is in everything but it is not a Shamanistic belief. Since the Mongols arrived in Tibet, Saamans have been the healers of choice there. So how is it you are using the word?

Most of the world uses squatters.

Maybe first they should learn how to reduce their birth rate so that they will not very soon hit 1.5 billion in a country with about as much usable land as the US. An expensive urban lifestyle with small apartment living has proven to be the best control worldwide. China has many laws to prevent infanticide. It may not be any more common than in the USA.

Chinese need to learn more Western ways of doing things like, including the s trap in plumbing to create a liquid block to rising sewer odors. Americans need to learn more ways of doing things like wasting less such as carrying collapsable utensils to reduce waste

I get it... but why worry about being 'right' or not... that's my point... She is always right. You are either supportive or blind to a wrong.

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO tHANK yOU dENNIS ....... CONGRATS and all you know I am Dennis did you get Leiqin's permission first?

My wife always reminds me that it would be very difficult for Chinese people to bear the burden of higher prices for food and living expenses, as many of them have barely enough to get by right now. I guess the fact that China keeping tight controls on its exchange rates isn't too popular with American economists, I'm thinking that the Chinese people are grateful that prices are not rising too quickly. When a culture is founded on the concept of the heaven, earth, and man are all one interconnected, interdependent mass; and the political philosophy takes on a role of being in charge of decisions for the masses; and the masses are generally free to conduct their lives without a bevy of laws to control their every move; and the whole thing is rolled up in a theory of physical-emotion-health balance and social harmony... you end up with a social organism which not just depends on each part but TRUSTS each part... and therein is where their SELF-WORTH is formed. It also answers the question why acupuncture appears to be more sucessful in china than in other countries... SoCal may have more Acupuncturists per block than China. As for RMB value, we are always pushing for higher value in the hope of selling more products to such a huge market.

How do you figure visa fraud? They haven't met face to face yet let alone decided to get engaged. How could you possibly point to fraud for what does not exist yet? I am very curious to hear what you think the definition of visa fraud is. Remember love is not part of the equation for the government. At this point how do you doubt the intent of commiting to marriage?

I'm not sure if you previously left out the ages... 45 year old USC having a shell game with 22 year old chinese ladies I think I've heard enough... I think I'd warn Jie at this point SSsssssshhhhhh There is more than one game being played here.... Stay tuned for the outcome.

What seems to be the consensus here is that those with English speaking wives vote to tell Al and those whose wife aren't English proficient vote not to tell. If correct, what does that tell?http://i44.tinypic.com/qs9rv6.gif Mine is proficient in English, and the opinion is this is done all the time. Dennis, I am puzzled about one thing. Why didn't Al need to be told about the ghost writer for the first introduction? Now that the person he never communicated with is switched does he need to be told? As they say these things often work out. And sometimes they don't. It is the matchmaking game so roll the dice and see how it goes. And hide low so you avoid the I told you so or become a whipping boy for failed plans. (Maybe you can blame the whole thing on Roger)

Accomplice??????? If you say nothing (I still vote that way since you aren't a player in this game) you are simply an observer. Sit back, answer your wife's questions and observe the game. You learn more this way

Just when the thread catchs Lilac's attention and she calls it interesting, you guys get into a school hallway fight. Stop slinging the chodofu and get back to topic China has more influences acting on the present nation than just the social and legal structure of the philosophers. To me it goes even deeper and probably even earlier in history. I think the Chinese pragmatism as opposed to the Western idealism has much to do with it. And yes I do know these are not absolute on either side and that the opposite does exist in both. I am referring to the greater influence on the ordinary populus.