To go or not to go

[darianstarfire]

Hi all,

 

I hope I am posting this in the right place, but it is regarding visas and especially potentially delays. Also, know that I live in China and filed in Beijing. The Guangzhou embassy supposedly received our sent out P3 today, though I was only able to verify this through EMS (China's UPS)

 

I have found this past week quite strange. First, I posted a request about the P3 regarding the I-864. It turns out I didn't have to do it at that time, though my parents went through a lot of hassle to send me something that they believed I could finish. On that point do I:

 

1. Need to have a sealed official government envelope

2. Can I modify the document as long as it is notazized.

 

So, I have more time to figure out the I-864 and who who joint-sponsor my wife. My parents can't, they can't document how much they make, well my mom can, but still not enough. So joint-sponsor all the way.

 

Then yesterday, my wife was watching TV and saw an AD for exceptionally cheap round-trip ticket from Shanghai to Portland (my hometown). The cost was only 3200 yuan, or 400 dollars. I asked her to call the free number and apparently it seemed good and is done through Northwest Airlines. Now, I was sceptical and still am. I can only buy the ticket in Shanghai, the Wuhan branch (at least on the phone) was of course unhelpful and totally useless. Though, the ticket resolved in me a certain mindset that sent my mind towards thinking about home again.

 

Then today I talked to my wife and she tells me of a girl who was rejected because the man could not prove he would be going back to America. This to me seems minor, since a valid ticket would erase such nonsense. Yet, it put in my a spectre of fear that my laxity and poor job, or lack thereof, might contribute to a rejection. This again pointed to a decision that I didn't want to make. It would be wise of me to go home and have a job waiting when she arrives. I could live with my parents, but this is not something I would like to venture long.

 

I add on top of this my lack of acceptance for Wuhan. If you have lived in Wuhan, then you will know, but it is a city of around 6-8 million, of which more then half probably comprise of country immigrants. This is not a slow town, nor a kind town to strangers, but a dog eat dog town where the pedestrian crossing in front of a moving car is not the rare but the accepted norm, also a place where you do not ever line up or queue, except to eat. There are other things which I care not to list, but have contributed to my cycnically attitude. I realize that those two I mentioned are a Chinese thing, but Wuhan is more the sum of its parts. It is not one thing, or two, but the whole, which has burned me into a cinder. I am to a point, where I fear teaching university students, though I love helping people one on one.

 

To summarize, I don't think I have the ability to endure this city longer and still give my wife 100%. You may or may not understand, and I hope you have a chance to experience Wuhan, or any place in China, because no city of the same. My experience is in Wuhan, and I couldn't recommend the place. The summers are like a furnace, the winters are dreadfully cold, and the pollution is slowly killing me. (I developed athsma since coming here). Yet, I still think you should come, because it is still my home. It may have warts and I might dislike it right now, but I will think fondly of it when I finally leave permanently.

 

So my concience is unbearable. I don't want to be here, yet I would stay here until the summer for her sake. I am tired mentally, physically, and spiritually and I feel like this city is killing me, yet there is her, and I would walk a thousand miles for her. (even if I go, I will come back for her interview).

 

The postive is that I could setup a nicer situation for her to go to and I would be happy to be in Portland. Yet, I would be unhappy to be away from her, and suspect that this time away would be far more difficult then being away for less then 3 months last summer. I could also potentially sponsor her myself, through this method. This could also create delays as why I went home, but this is not my immediate concern, because there is a reason for everything. The school I am trying to apply for is dragging there feet and I just don't want to be here anymore.

 

Is it possible to love friends and family and yet almost hate the city. So, my spirit is tired, and I have no urge to fight this want. I can go home, this is a certainty; but do I? I have made my decision personally, but I do not trust my judgment and am asking for your opinions, good or bad, to go or not to go. I will ask others and they will decide this for me, and especially I will depend on my wife to decide on this, I cannot go knowing she would resent me. (She is still too Chinese to say no though. So I can only trust her words halfway on matters such as these and probe her about her real feelings)

 

For those who pray, I ask for prayers that God would find a way and give wisdom when wisdom is needed most.

 

I could write a great deal more, but it is not needed now. I always glad to have had the chance to come, but.... (and that's the crux... but ....)

 

Thanks greatly for listening.

Dan

[warpedbored]

Wow what a post. Sounds like you are in need of a change of scenery. By Portland I presume you mean Oregon. There are several of us here from Oregon. We recently had a get together for CFL and in total had 23 people come. Your wife will have many other Chinese women to talk to in similar circumstances.

 

As far as your I864 is concerned it doesn't need to be in a sealed govt envelope as far as I know. Your co sponsors must have enough assetts or income on thier own though to cover her. It isn't a combined income thing.The plane fare part is true. There are some very good deals to be had right now with NWA. It appears they are trying to corner the market on flights to China.

Good luck

[cqhk]

It sounds like it's time for a heart to heart discussion with your wife. Tough decision to make, but I'm sure the two of you can decide what to do together. I've got no advice other than talk to your wife about it and let her know how you're burned out on that city.

 

I don't know your pain, but I guess it's similar to some of the white and the black kids that grow up in Hawaii, especially the ones who are part of military families. It sucks living in paradise and not being able to enjoy it.

 

Hope things get better soon. Keep your head up. I'm sure your wife knows how much you love her to endure the time there.

 

Best wishes.

[frank1538]

I realize there is no comparison but what would your response be if she came to the US and really got burned out living here and said she couldn't give you 100% and stay in America?

 

Jingwen, my wife, is not thrilled about the US. When I ask her if she likes America, her response is always something along the lines of "I love you". She won't answer the question, but I know she definitely prefers China to the US, but she left her country and her culture to spend her life with her husband, and I know that her love for me transcends all.

 

Now, I'll be the first to tell you that Jingwen is anything but burned out, so it wouldn't be fair to you to suggest that you tough it out. But, please examine what might be your wife's reaction when you tell her that you want to return to the US and re-charge the batteries. You can offer any and all valid reasons for wanting to return, but if Jingwen wanted to return to China temporarily because she was burned out living in America, I would begin to wonder about the relationship and why I could not make her happy.

 

One of the things that seems to help our Chinese halves when then come to the US is a taste of home - Chinese friends, get togethers, Chinese TV, Chinese restaurants, Chinese food and shopping - all those things that help make the transition a bit more tolerable. What about you? Have you located any ex-pats in Wuhan? Anything western going on that could help? Also, it sounds like you're nearing the end of the visa journey with the P3 now in the hands of GZ (but likely not entered into the system). Take a guess on how much longer you'll have to wait and decide if you can endure living there.

 

I offer only one piece of advice. If you want to return to the US to get things ready for her arrival, fine and dandy. But, if you want to return to the US because you're burned out living in Wuhan, be honest with your wife and make sure she understands why.

[Trigg]

I can go home, this is a certainty; but do I?  I have made my decision personally, but I do not trust my judgment and am asking for your opinions, good or bad, to go or not to go.  I will ask others and they will decide this for me, and especially I will depend on my wife to decide on this, I cannot go knowing she would resent me.  (She is still too Chinese to say no though.  So I can only trust her words halfway on matters such as these and probe her about her real feelings)

 

This little poem always keep me goin' when I question my judgement.

 

He is quick, thinking in clear images;

I am slow, thinking in broken images.

 

He becomes dull, trusting to his clear images;

I become sharp, mistrusting my broken images.

 

Trusting his images, he assumes their relevance;

Mistrusting my images, I question their relevance.

 

Assuming their relevance, he assumes the fact;

Questioning their relevance, I question their fact.

 

When the fact fails him, he questions his senses;

when the fact fails me, I approve my senses.

 

He continues quick and dull in his clear images;

I continue slow and sharp in my broken images.

 

He in a new confusion of his understanding;

I in a new understanding of my confusion.

 

[awch]

What about if both of you move to another city in China? You can get another teaching job easily. I'm not sure what her job is.... But that could be a good option for you.

[oregonknl]

Interesting poem, Trigg ~ ... if a top aid were to present it to Geo. W to read: "Huh?"

 

But about Dan's situation...... To me, Dan's post reads as if he is Chinese American, or ABC .... and if that is the case, it might make a (cultural) difference how he proceeds ---- there may be more cultural acceptance if he "lays the ground work" for his family in Portland, than if one of us white guys were to up and move to China --- "because we were tired of Portland"...

 

But the whole subject of relocation ----- to Portland in the winter ------ was one that I discussed with Fei many times (and documented last January's protracted ice storm extensively) ----- doing what I could to prepare her for it ----- and always asking if this was going to be ok... She said then that she was, and so far, at least ---- she still is!

[kevincs31]

Hi Dan,

 

I thought I would throw my two cents in since I experienced a similar situation although not 100% exact as yours but hopefully it will add something to the topic at hand.

 

I was living in Southeast Asia for part of my time over there, but just a three hour flight from my SO in China. I also was teaching over there, but my career is in the medical field. I was saving a little by teaching, but not nearly what I could in the States.

 

I almost moved to China after I received a couple good job offers (good for China, poor compared to the States) and my SO was going to move in with me. Then, we decided to do the visa thing and eventually get married. I knew that I had to get back into my career field and establish job stability and also save some more money for the upcoming expenses and be financially sound before she got here.

 

So, instead of moving to China and being with her at the expense of the longer term factors, I moved to the States. Now, I am saving a bunch of cash, paid off my bills, bought a new ride, and got a great job in my field. I feel so much better financially now than if I had spent 6+ months in China and then coming here.

 

Sorry to babble on about 'me' stuff, but I think it is relevent in some ways. Once I saw the long-term issues in front of me, I knew I had to get back here to the U.S. because that is where we plan on living so that is where I had to establish myself. I assume that is your plan as well.

 

I hate being apart from her, but we both know it is best in the long run. I don't want to start off a marriage worrying about a job or money.

 

I posted something a while back about how to turn the horrible wait until being together again into something positive. I am working on some other projects and some other things that I wouldn't have time for if she were here now, so maybe you can think about that too. Or start exercising more....write that book you always wanted to...take up Karate.....anything!

 

BTW, your experience sounds like mine in Korea, it sucked the life out of me. I had a contract with a company for 12 months but we agreed I had to go after barely making it six months....OUCH!!! I never knew what misery could be until that time.

 

Well.....for what it's worth.......Good luck either way!!!

(Three weeks until me and my SO are reunited in Shanghai after 9 months of being apart)

[Dogfish]

Hi,Dan. My fiancee is living Wuhan now,I have been there several times,so I understand your feeling.you may tell your wife your feeling that you could not stand of living in Wuhan and let her now how much you love her,she would understand you!!!

 

good luck!!

[darianstarfire]

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you for your kind remarks, poems and thought-provoking questions. I will say that I am not a ABC, if I was, then I some of my stress would not be as large. I could meld in with the crowd and would not fear for her safety if people knew she married me. We go to great lengths to make sure people don't see me go into her parents house. I must admit that having to hide your relationship is more stressful then it might seem at first. I had believed that her parents would accept everything (but they haven't). Don't ask why. Suffice it to say that it is another stress.

 

Maybe I am impatient, maybe I am not trusting, these are things I don't know well enough. I am sure I could go to US. My SO and I have talked at length and we are no more clear today then we were before. Financially, this is good reasoning, but mentally and spiritually, it will be difficult. Mind you, this will only be for 4-5 at most. Yet, few days have passed when I have not seen her at great length. This is very different from many of you and I have always considered this a great blessing. I will be able to understand her feelings while living in America. This has been my gift, but it makes this decision no easier, now, at this moment.

 

I want to leave, but I find that what we want is not always what we get. I could go, and I would be able to setup a nice situation for her, but these are still unknowns. The truth of the matter is that I could still come back after 2 weeks and make things work. The ticket I will buy will be open-ended up to six months, and I intend to use it as I can.

 

I am leaning towards going back, though more then I ought to lean, because my want is far too transparent. I have said to my SO, "My decision is irrelevant without your support." She says she is okay with this which is Chinese for, "I want to make you happy, but I am going to bust your balls later." I am trying to avoid this and trying to probe for a clearer answer.

 

Thanks for your help and please pray.

Dan

[beijingjenny]

Tough choice, Dan. I don't know what I would do. But keep the communication going with her. At least, if you decide to leave, the wait shouldn't be too long before she can go to the US.

 

I have to tell you, my experience of Wuhan - An accident right after arriving, followed by two weeks in the hospital... but I know some people do like the city...

[MoonCarolCafe]

I will say that I am not a ABC, if I was, then I some of my stress would not be as large. I could meld in with the crowd and would not fear for her safety if people knew she married me. We go to great lengths to make sure people don't see me go into her parents house.

Fear for her safety? Because people know she's married to a roundeye? Why? Do you know something you would like to share with the rest of the class?

[warpedbored]

Wow things must be rough in Wuhan. I would be very disturbed though by inlaws that make you hide your marriage. Making sure no one sees you going into your inlaws house? My inlaws are very nice and have no problem being seen anywhere with my wife an I. I love them dearly. Personally I'd be damned if I would have anything to do with them if they treated me like that. My wife and I have never feared for her safety because of being with me in China either. Perhaps a move to a more accepting city while you wait would solve the problem.

[awch]

I agree with Carl here- my inlaws and whole family are so accepting and kind. They love to see me and talk to me even if I can't understand. From the very beginning they have treated me as an equal member of their family, though none of them had any contact with foreigners before.

 

I don't know what I would do if that were not the case.... I still think moving to another city in China is a good option.

[eeyore]

I agree with Carl here- my inlaws and whole family are so accepting and kind. They love to see me and talk to me even if I can't understand. From the very beginning they have treated me as an equal member of their family.

I received the same treatment from my wife's family, they treat me real well even with the language barrier. I was pleasantly surprised.