"Life is like a box of chocolate"

[oregonknl]

Clifford ~!

 

No, it doesn't mean you kill all the predators in the world, I believe in the natural balance just like you --- its just means that you honestly understand what you are dealing with...

 

Yeah, I had a very distrubing run - in with a cougar (thus the example) and the experience completely changed my opinion about the danger of mt. lions.... but thats WHEN IN THE MOUNTAINS (for the most part)

 

The human predator we are discussing is (was) in somebody's neighborhood.....

[Guest jimb]

This is a topic that pushes everybodys buttons. I think a short paragraph describing the situation is not enough. I need more information to condem or vindicate someone. Not enough information or facts here for me to jump to a conclusion

 

jimb

[MarkD]

Off topic, do Chinese in-laws seem to go for American chocolate?  Or is chocolate the same in China?  I never bothered to check it out.

I've found that they really like peanut brittle and they can't get it there.

[cosmiclobster]

Kim: maybe they should send him to Missouri . . . . .

[oregonknl]

Steve,

 

I really don't understand where Clifford is coming from on this ----

 

---- I know Clifford ---- had dinner with him at Carl and Bing's house --- And I very much respect his intellect, (and knowledge and participation here at the Candle) ---

 

--- BUT Sending this guy anywhere but Federal prision, would be a miscarriage of justice, in my opinion...

 

Clifford is a single guy ---- once he has young daughters, his perspective might change...

 

--- Kim

[Mengxin]

Kim: maybe they should send him to Missouri . . . . .

Even better... Drop him off in South Central LA. Not Louisianna either.

[kfman]

Actually, as someone who enters through prison doors every day on the way to work, I can promise you guys this with a straight face..

Despite the fact that staff members do not release the sentence info on pedophiles, the inmates inside do find out, and despite how uncivil convicts are, they have laws inside amongst their own, and pedophiles dont last long. Despite his age, or medical condition, I believe he will "get whats coming". Not from officers mind you (despite what is shown in the movies), but from pedophile hit squads...

[cosmiclobster]

OK, I got it! Drop him off in South Central, with his hands handcuffed behind his back and a white t-shirt with big black letters that say:

I will pay $10 and a chocolate bar to sexually molest your black preteen daughters.

[eeyore]

Off topic, do Chinese in-laws seem to go for American chocolate?  Or is chocolate the same in China?  I never bothered to check it out.

I've found that they really like peanut brittle and they can't get it there.

off topic respose:

 

My wife loves chocolate truffles. I sent some to her last Christmas and she always wants me to bring some or send more.

[oregonknl]

Michael, I'm the original poster here, and thanks for posting the whole article... I hardly think it exonerates Seljan..

 

My immediate concern was not vindictive, but rather to get Seljan off the street and out of circulation. As I stated, I agree that Clifford is one of the smartest among us, which is why I was surprised by his response, one that would let Seljan stay in society.

 

There is another beneficial aspect to his exposure and public sentence --- Clearly, others who would offend as he did, might think twice now, before getting on that plane to the Phillipines, Thailand .....where ever there are young children available for sexual exploitation at a price...

 

As far as Seljan's up coming prison sentence goes... I do expect the system to protect him from internal punishment additional to his time served.

[turtle]

Excuse me, but are people really debating this topic? From what I read in the article, this guy should have been locked up in 1977, when he was first caught molesting kids. This time let's throw away the key.

[sylinchinastill]

I don't know- you certainly can see that the reporter is sympathetic- but I think a more interesting test would be to wait until the victims are about twenty years old and see what they think about it. Molestation is rampant in America- I have more friends who have been molested than friends who have not and I know that all of them are for the death penalty for those who did this to them. Of course maybe you should have sympathy for the old man but what sympathy did he have for those young girls. You can say- "oh, they solicited themselves.." Because they were poor, etc.- you could say that if it hadn't been him it would have been someone. You could say that he is old. But if it were in this country it would be a crime and I think we bear the responsibility to discipline offenders in the US if they are US citizens and we catch them here. There is too much of this in the US. It is much more rare in countries that don't have so much money. We have such perverted crimes because nasty old men have nothing better to do than sit around and think of their penises and what would make them feel good. That is one good thing about China- when you walk on the street at night- you might get robbed but you most likely won't be attacked and raped. I detest this man's lawyer- I would never take that case- even if I worked in the Public Defender's Office- which I would never do for this reason.

[MoonCarolCafe]

But if it were in this country it would be a crime and I think we bear the responsibility to discipline offenders in the US if they are US citizens and we catch them here. There is too much of this in the US.

If we get in the habit of extraterritorial enforcement we have little standing to object when China throws one of thier citizens in jail for something they do while in the USA, which happens to be illegal in China.

 

I.e. A woman from Saudi Arabia wears a bathing suit in public while visiting a beach in Florida. In Saudi Arabia this is a serious offense against public morals, possibly punishable by flogging and public humiliation. Should she be punished upon return to her nation of origin for actions that rightly or wrongly, are legal in other places?

 

This is equivalent to a law that says if it is illegal for me to do something in my state of residence, it is illegal for me no matter which state I may visit.

 

Protection of minors from sexual predators is a laudable goal. The extraterritorial application of the Protect Act (more info here) appeals to emotion, not logic. IANAL, but IMHO this is poor application of a law.

[sylinchinastill]

I said- if we catch them here- we cannot go outside of this forum and serve people with process who are in other countries. But he was inside of this country- that's what I am saying.

[MoonCarolCafe]

That is still extraterritorial application of US law-- punishment here, for something you did elsewhere.

 

Abortion is illegal in location A, resident of location A goes to location B where "reproductive choice" has at least defacto, if not dejure recognition, and has an abortion. She then returns home to location A, where she is tried for "murder of an unborn baby", even though the authorities in the place she went to have don't think a serious crime was commited. This is extraterritorial application of US law.

 

A homosexual citizen of Iran gets caught in flagrante delicto on the security camera of an elevator in Harrods with a man who for resons I need not go into here, looks obviously Jewish. I'm certain the Mullahs of Iran take a strict interpretation of the Koran on matters of this sort, especially when the video shows the Semite in the dominant position. (I hope I have abstracted the scenario enough to keep it PG, while understandable). Were he to be tried upon return to Iran that would be again, extraterritorial application of the law.

 

However, we don't even have to wait for them to be in the USA before agents nab them for trial. Yes, that's right-- there is a Supreme Court decision that allows US law enforcement agents to abduct someone from outside the USA, for trial in the USA, even though the person is not a US citizen, provided that a treaty of extradition exisits (Full text of U.S. v H. Alvarez Machain) in order to try them in an U.S. court.

 

It appears that extraterritorial enforcement is legal (the Supreme Court interprets what the legislature creates, no matter how poorly thought out the legislation is). I still think it is a Very Bad Idea. (I also think that the folks in the GZ visa office are just jam-packed full of swellness! Hear me guys? My wife will be dropping by for a visit shortly, OK?)

 

Imagine the indignant cries of outrage were the Chinese National Police to sneak a Fulan-Gong leader out of the USA for trial in China.