do you know them REALLY

[Jeikun]

And what does an American women do if things get a little shaky?

Well, I could waste everyone's time and say what my Mom would have done, what my Aunt did, what some of my very best friends would do.... ugh!!! I know things have happened in your past to upset you, Ray, and you're a bit emotional in answering that post, but still... Some of the most important and loved people in my - and most of our lives are American women!! Think about how broad a statement you're making... and offensive too I might add.

 

I'm not the type to get too up about this sort of thing, and I'm not going to go off on a complete rant... but seriously.. think about what you're saying and who you're saying it about man.

[who]

Yeah Jeikun! As much as I love reading this bored- every time someone says something about American women ("fat and pasty and money-hungry" comes to mind) I get so frustrated- I guess maybe because I didn't exactly 'select' my fiance but randomly met him I feel the same way as Jeikun- I would never say that American men are fat and hairy and don't work hard and that is why I am happy to be marrying a Chinese- I'm so glad to hear that someone else feels this way. And I am not fat, dammit!

 

But back to the other thing. I think Chinese people are very concerned about money- I find myself telling what things cost and asking how much someone makes to Americans and then I think, 'oops' as they stumble around their words trying to answer my tactless question. But I don't think that's a bad thing- wanting money is not a bad thing. Think about it like this- my fiance- who is 32- grew up at the end of the Cultural Revolution- his grandmother would tell him not to run around and play so he wouldn't eat more food- he remembers exactly how much rice his family had- a time when a rice soup was special food- food you got when you were sick- the rest of the time they ate sorghum rice- meat was scarce- I would say that none of the Americans here- or very few- have ever experienced that- so when he says he wants a nice car- I think, "of course he does." I just think we shouldn't judge- but should take into account where our loved ones are coming from, their backgrounds-

Hello again

To answer part of your response,i grew up in omaha nebr,in the 50s and 60s,in the walfare system housing and food,i,m white and it was a all black part of town, during some of the hardest times we ever lived through,have many black friends,and they took care of us during all the black panther riots,my dad died and my mom raised 5 boys and one girl and took in 5 more kids that there parents had TB,to this day i will not eat a biscuit.

I left home at 17 and worked through collage and maintained a apartment for 3 years and finished collage a year early,

I went to work at AT&T and learned and worked hard to get a better life,opened up a small company that in 22 years grew to be quite profitable.

By this time I had two of the best kids around and had brought my family into the business,and there families,than i woke up and found out my kids a older and i had everything I ever wanted,so why was I not happy????

So i was going to sell the company to the family and let them die over it,that is why my first wife left,75 % of the money also,but that was ok I still have my kids,

Than i married the greatest girl i could ever hope to meet,it was great for 12 years,all the while I helped her family out of many different items,than I stopped because they would not help them selfs, she left with her family,

Oh yes did I say I had to walk up hill to school both ways!

[se_lang]

Oh yes did I say I had to walk up hill to school both ways!

You also forgot the blizzard , But really if you love her then that is what you need, I would think she is just dreaming of a better life, we all like to dream, many Chinese can't really dream of such things because they are out of reach, So if your wife wants a second home then by all means let her dream and if she wants to pursue it then let her, I did not say give it to her, The American dream is being able to "work" for your dreams work with her but let her work for it. I hope this makes sense. Now go build a home together.

[Trigg]

my chinese wife is starting to sound like all the others ,all about money,having houses in multi locations,but the other part of it is that the chinese women all meet and talk and they are always telling each other,not to tell there american men to much,as they might not understand,what is the real differance between the two being chinese or american

I guese I could go on and on but having second thoughts normal,???????

My Chinese wife talks about money everyday. She wants almost everything she see but she would never ask me for it. Rather, she wants to work with me so we can have it together. Wanting more than one has is one reason people have so much. If a little was good enough then wouldn't we all settle for that. Point is it isn't just women that want more than they have--it is all of us. The real question is what would she say if she thought you had nothing. I know my wife would say "OH S$%^&. Now we work harder and soon have many many"

 

"Second thoughts normal" Get prepared to wipe the word normal from your vocabulary. I have the best possible marriage I could ever have and wouldn't change anything--but marrying someone from another world with another culture and another language will never be "normal"

Trigg

[Jeikun]

Jason,

I thought we were talking about spouses. In my opinion, when talking on this site (woman) means wife not mother, sister, aunt, cousen, grandmother, friend or  duaghter. Unless otherwise stated.

 Thats the one last freedom we have in america, I can express my opinion. you do not have to agree, that is your right. I did nothing, but point out how her own words supported my view. And why I have given up on american women...

Ok... Well all those people I mentioned in my last post WERE/ARE someone's wife. That was my point. If American women or even "American wives only" are as you say, then this would more than potentially include "mother, sister, aunt, cousin, grandmother, friend, or daughter." So I don't understand how you think there is a distinction??

 

Also I think as far as the post you directed towards maiyademama, you misinterpreted her post. She didn't mean it as a personal attack, or to put "words in anypne's mouth". Her point was women are women, and have the same basic needs. I think you blew it a little out of proportion.

 

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but keep in mind:

 

Cultural sensitivity, diversity and acceptance of all people are fundamental principles of Candle. Any racist or stereotypical statements are strictly forbidden.

 

I'm not trying to be a little nancy-boy whipping out the policies. I don't mind a good argument. But we have female members here... they are *gasp* people's wives... therefore, you are speaking of them as well.

 

We have some African American members here. If I wanted to express an opinion about how I think black guys make terrible husbands and fathers, for example... would I just be expressing my opinion? Yes... But would that opinion be offensive and unacceptable? Yes... Your's is about an even broader group of people. The only reason I think it is acceptable here, is most people here agree with you to at least some extent. I mean, I can even understand where you're coming from even though I don't agree with you. But that doesn't make it any different from my example though, or any better.

[Jeikun]

All guys seeking Chinese brides are either social retards who haven't had it since it had them, male-supremesist ogres who can't accept an independant woman and heard that Asian women are submissive, or 2+ time losers who can't maintain a relationship with "one of their own kind" and hopes that a foreign girl will be so glad they're an American she won't notice they're a pretty sorry one.

[se_lang]

All guys seeking Chinese brides are either social retards who haven't had it since it had them, male-supremesist ogres who can't accept an independant woman and heard that Asian women are submissive, or 2+ time losers who can't maintain a relationship with "one of their own kind" and hopes that a foreign girl will be so glad they're an American she won't notice they're a pretty sorry one.

I am guessing you are trying to make a point, You must have had lessons from DaveG.

 

Well I had to come back for a minute, I think before this goes any further we should remember where this thread resides it is not the RR.

[a2396]

This topic has certainly generated some valuable and thoughtfull observations. I have not looked at this site for some time, but I can identify with the topic and the discussions. I would say and romantic involvement is a gamble and and the more serious it becomes, the bigger the stakes, emotionally and financially. As far as Chinese vs American (Western), I think some of the generalizations hold up. I think American society overall has become fixed on the superficial and the veneer of appearance and has lost the depth of emotional attachment and connection that makes for a strong and lasting relationship. In my case, that is what I would find more easily (depth of emotion) with an Asian woman and not so easy with an American.

 

However, my experience is that you should be very carefull to make sure all the necessary sincerity an "honorable intentions" are present, before getting to far out on an emotional limb. In my case I found out later that my wife's loyalties were with her Mother and family and not with me. I also had very superficial knowledge of her past background, previous relationships, etc, that one would normally know if the woman was from (and living in) the same country as her prospective husband. It is much easier to fool someone from a far. You have no idea what someone is doing halfway across the world and I think Asians are not noted for thier openness or specificity in communication. This lack of precision in communication can cause problems later on. It did with my rather quickly failed marriage.

 

As for buying property in China, I would not consider it, unless you are going to live there and have your residence permit in hand and have been married for a reasonable period of time. My lady fair asked me to buy her a condo in Shenzhen, even before we were actually married. The reasoning was that "Mama" would feel more comfortable knowing that her daughter would have a secure place to live. Fortunately, I did not buy the condo.

 

So, my story is that after being married in February 2004, and upon my return to USA I am told by my wife that she wants a divorce because "Mama" says I am to old. After a few short phone calls I heard nothing more until today, when I get an email saying that she is sorry, but we must get a divorce. I will say that a good part of this situation is due to my own carlessness and haste in pursuing a relationship that had many shakey and questionable aspects. My advice is don't be in a hurry and manipulated into situations that do not have a sound basis. Know her and her family well. I did not.

[Jeikun]

All guys seeking Chinese brides are either social retards who haven't had it since it had them, male-supremesist ogres who can't accept an independant woman and heard that Asian women are submissive, or 2+ time losers who can't maintain a relationship with "one of their own kind" and hopes that a foreign girl will be so glad they're an American she won't notice they're a pretty sorry one.

I am guessing you are trying to make a point, You must have had lessons from DaveG.

 

Well I had to come back for a minute, I think before this goes any further we should remember where this thread resides it is not the RR.

Yeah Dave is one of my heroes No, seriously, I realize I got a little carried away there, you're right this isn't the rumpus room. I'm just more than a little upset at how some stereotypes are acceptable and others aren't when they are just as derogatory.

 

I won't reply to Ray, since he doesn't want to play anymore, but it's not really a question of me feeling the need to be right. If someone's personal choice is to look for a foreign bride for whatever their reasons, there's nothing wrong with it at all, and nothing wrong with trying something radically different from what you have been trying, etc. My point was only that spitting venom (seriously, read his post) at American women in general is uncalled for. I don't need to quote it... just scroll up.

 

I have nothing against Ray, or anyone here who may share his viewpoint as people. I realize my previous post could be seen as a typical trolling tactic. But honestly, it was not to inspire angry replies or start a long argument, but it was more to say "Hey, if this generalization upsets you (hey, it upsets me too I'm marrying a Chinese woman too remember?) then maybe you can empathize and realize the stereotype you're propogating here is just as upsetting to our female members and just as incorrect."

 

But hey, I know that ain't how the world works. I know I shouldn't have made such a big deal about it. Some people can't have a debate without feeling personally insulted. I don't think that's what I did, certainly wasn't my motivation - but if that's how some people took it, I apologize.

[sylinchinastill]

Wooo! I went to bed and got back up and this topic got really interesting! I actually don't have a problem with American women being called materialistic- fat and pasty hurts- but beyond that... I agree that whatever your personal experiences are- you take it to the table when you date- I'm sure Ray has valid points and his experience led him to feel the way he does- we're all entitled to feel that way- but I think saying 'some' American women are this or that or even 'most' are this or that is better than all. My fiance has dated an American and a British girl before me and Chinese girls as well. He feels that Chinese girls are materialistic (but then again those girls were from Shenzhen and that city is pretty materialistic to begin with- because most of the residents came there from their hometowns far away to work- and you have to be materialistic to get ahead) But anyway- one thing to note. Although I am sure many Chinese wives will want to work and improve their lives (and I agree with the statement that wanting more is normal- a part of what everyone wants), many of the wives won't be able to make the money of the USC husbands- and if a woman wants to be a home-maker- that is fine too- but a woman- every woman- no matter where they are from- want to be secure (as my fellow female Taczsa mentioned)- Chinese women might think about this in a different way- Some are materialistic- I know girls in Shenzhen who made their money by being rich men's girlfriends. Most of my friends in America are dancers and artists and therefore are not materialistic at all- so maybe my view of American women is different- also most of my friends are young and maybe different because of that. I know savings is bigger in China than in the US because the only health insurance plan they have is their own pockets for the most part- I know there are tons of Chinese older people living on 500 RMB a month pensions in the changing economy of Shanghai who are frustrated because they can't buy much with that money and they fear illness, etc. because if you don't have money- not just for treatment- to bribe the doctors as well- otherwise you will be thrown out- My fiance remembers a day in Shanzhen about 5 years ago when he drove to work in the morning and saw a dead woman's body in the middle of the street and drove home that night and the body was still there- I guess I'm just saying more of what I said before- I would also like to comment on the statement 'which is Communism?' because of the rules and regulations in the US- maybe the US isn't perfect- but we just shipped a container of our stuff back home (5 more days for me until I see my Mommy and sister!) and the shipping agent told us that even if there is no illegal stuff within a shipment- the shipping company still has to bribe the customs officer to let the shipment go out- and China wants to be recognized as a free market economy! Bribes in the hospital are common and they have tried to stop these but families will still bribe because doctors will not take care of patients without bribes- and when we went to go get out police report we had to stay in Shenzhen for days because the police officer who needed to sign off couldn't be enticed to come to work and sign. I think there are problems in the US as well. But- at least I have never had to bribe anyone. Also- I want to let everyone know about my favorite newspaper in the world- it is a Shanghai newspaper- and they have a website http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/index.html it is really a great newspaper and might help USCs learn more about China now. I especially love the comments section.

[keelec]

Hello Who,

 

The extended wait to get a visa is difficult for everyone. But, perhaps it is worth it to take some time to reflect whether the decision to date and marry internationally was appropriate.

 

Somehow Irina and I will be waiting for over 18 months to get our visa interview (and hopefully the visa). This spring, as we passed the 1 year point, Irina gave up on the process.

 

With the help of the CFL members, I realized that part of our problem was the difficulty for communication. When we first met, Irina was living with an uncle and we had the opportunity to regularly talk no the phone and write via e-mail. Last summer, he moved to Moscow, and we had to find other methods to communcate. We continued to send e-mail, but there were interruptions and we lost the feeling of closeness.

 

So, we've been working on rebuilding... And I can still tell why I always have felt that Irina was such a special woman.

 

Best Wishes with your introspection, and determining where your future will lead,

 

----- Clifford -----

[Kaige]

I have read everyones articles on this subject, good points and bad, I just want to add, not downing people but in my life I have always worked hard for everything I got, first wife always had to keep up with the Jones'es, I spent five years of my life building a home, owner builder, nice home and very efficent and was paid for, ex never moved in, I was brought up to always look after your family, yes I went out with a few women here, but there ideas on life were not the same as mine, a Canadian nurse who was part time here that could drink most men under the table, O great values there, one that was a sailboat captain, not in to sailboats, powerboats yes, another that couldn't figure out what they wanted in life, as there are alot of them out there, others that are to stupid to leave there cheating husbands or boyfriends, but the main thing I wanted someone that would love me for whom I am, richer- poorer, through sickness and in health to death do we part and could offer the same to that one special person in life, and I am blessed with the most wonderful loving wife in the world, I have the true happiness that I would never trade for anything, any of you ever think God wanted you to be together with your wonderful Chinese wife, how many of you ever thought you would have a wonderful, loving wife. Houses in China are nice, some day we will have one . For now we work together every day of our lives, forever

[chinadave2001]

Hmmm, where to start?

1. I agree with those that suggest that stereotypes are a bad idea. For example, I have met many american and chinese women who are not materialistic, or completely so. I don't think either side has any bragging rights here. Remember our visa-gold digger Chinagirl?

2. There are predators on both sides of the equation- I met one guy in Qingdao who was close to 60 dating a 21 year old chinese girl ....who the predator was I am not sure. Likewise, there some Chinese women whose main purpose in life is to find the foreignor who will help them get out of china -

3. IMHO, There is no way to know if she is the one. Sorry. Time together, frequent visits, meeting the family, etc. can all help but until you actually live together and deal with the stresses of real life, neither of you will know what you you have. Hopefully you guessed right.

4. Finally, I think there is something deep within the American male psyche that resonates with Chinese women. Our roles, as males, in modern American life are increasingly under attack and vague.....I am unable to explain this further. (no, it has nothing to do with subservient women...)

 

CD

[SeaSame]

What's wrong with materialism?

 

Admiring those who have money has nothing wrong, but depends whether you spend it in deserving places. For instance, can you simply tell a destitute one "Go with happiness, I love you!" Would your words make him happier when he is still suffered of hunger and homeless?

 

I might sound preachy here, but Money could be a good tool to help some people happier, if you could merely buy him a bread for breakfast when someone is in hunger, shelter them under your roof in a rainy night, greet them those who were humiliated when you have many belongings while they have none at all.

 

If you would do so, then I would earnestly wish you be the richest of the world, with my best sincerity and my deepest regards.

 

Hugs. Thanks for whatever.

 

 

 

SeaSame

[who]

Hello

I did not mean to start anything here everyone had some great thought to add,and a few assumed that I got married real quick,but all in all very good.

Now here is some food for thought would these same CHINESE women in already here in the united states,

WOULD THEY GO OUT WITH YOU IF THEY HAD THERE GREEN CARD??