visa denied

[Jim - Portland, USA]

WTF?!?!? WTF!!!! Those bastards!!!!! Ohhhhhhh I have a lot to say about all this ... but all I can say fro now is, I'M OUTRAGED!!!!!

 

Carl ... tell me how I can help you, I'm here in Portland man!! I HAVE A VIDEO CAMERA AND I CAN RECORD ANYTHING YOU'D LIKE. It's a digital camera, but I can record the video straight onto a VHS tape in either NTSC or PAL format (as hypoclear said, PAL is probably best). I can do this for you!! My camera is ready to go!!! And I'm free tonight after work. We can record whatever damn video they want.

 

Although I think the big question is ... what should we record?? They say they want to see you speaking Chinese. Can you speak Chinese? There goes that idea.

 

I agree with what others have said ... you just gotta make a tape of *something* and give them some type of rectangular plastic object which they can hold in their hands. They probably won't even look at it. But still ... what to record? I wish I could give you more advice about what to record, but I really don't know what is the best thing to do.

 

Like Don said ... carefully look at that fax she is sending you, see what it says. Then make your battle plan.

 

And again ... I can help you make any type of video you want, tonight.

 

How dare they say who we can and cannot marry?!?! So what if the two of you cannot speak 100% perfect Chinese and English.

 

What if you or Bing were deaf? Would they say ... sorry, you two can't speak to each other, so you're not allowed to get married. Geez, the Disability people and ACLU would have a field day with that one. That's essentially what they are doing.

 

But alas all this logical thought process stuff doesn't apply to the GZ f'ers. No amount of reason or logic can be beaten into their head. You gotta operate by their rules. So see what the fax says, and go from there. I'm here for you Carl ... right here on the corner on NE 60th and Glisan!!

[warpedbored]

I just got off the phone with Bing again. She said the VO only asked one question. "Do you speak english?" Bing told her yes but she hears hard. The woman said something to her she didn't understand and then denied the visa. She didn't look at any of our papers and refused the video we made of us talking on Yahoo. We are devastated obviously. Lots of good suggestions here. I am tempted to have her take the same video back down there but I also want to move very carefully. I don't think it is realistic for me to make a video speaking Chinese. It would take me too long to memorize that much. I need options. Keep the ideas coming and thank you all for your support.

[Guest Long_strider]

Carl,

 

Have been thinking about this since last night.

 

The requirements for K-1 do not state that the person must speak English or Chinese or any other language. It only states that that must be proof of a valid relationship. The VO in GZ use the idea of common communcation in English or Chinese as a means to validate this proof. Their idea being if the two of you cannot communicate how can you have developed a valid relationship. We understand their point, but it is faulty logic. Nothing says the two parties must speak the same language.

 

That being said, what is their motivation for delaying the application. Hmm we call all speculate that it is because they didn't meet their quota or denials this month, or the VO was having a bad day, or some other thing.

Whatever the reason, the visa was not approved yesterday.

 

Now keep in mind that the visa has NOT been denied. Only not approved subject to more information. They want you and Bing to jump through some more most likely to provide further proof of relationship through addtional effort.

 

Like others, I suggest that you make the video to appease them. You can attempt to speak some in Chinese, but I would also suggest that you use the video to make your case further in English, by stating all of the ways that you and Bing have communicated including frequency, etc. State in the video that there is no requirement or law that states you are required to speak Chinese or Bing to speak English. Call them on this issue.

 

As others have mentioned I have read on another site about a man who also had to make a tape. He spoke only a few words of Chinese. He apparently expressed anger and frustrate to the GZ Consulate in the tape about their stance. I would not recommend you voice any anger. Simply state your belief. Make statements about the nature and scope of your relationship with Bing. Make the statement that Bing will enroll in ESL classes upon arrival.

 

As others have offered, I would be willing to help in whatever way I can in making the tape.

 

Certainly consider a trip to China again, but only after carefully consideration. One of the factors that may have influenced the VO is the number of times you have met Bing face to face. However, the requirements are only that you have met at least once in the last two years. You have satsified this requirment.

 

Avoid the desire to hire an attorney at this point. Avoid hiring one of those "helpers" outside the Consulate. Think through your options. But I believe, as other have suggested, review the blue slip for specific wording, attempt to meet this request, and then go from there. Keep in mind it was not a denial of the visal, only a request for more proof, before issuing the visa.

 

Keep moving forward. It is only a snag, others have fought this approach and succeeded, you and Bing can too.

 

Mi

[Jim - Portland, USA]

Another thought just occured to me, these GZ f'ers really aren't concerned if there is a legitimate relationship or not. If Bing's VO had doubts about the validity of your relationship, then Bing could have had the opportunity to show all the others items of "evidence" that you have to prove a valid relationship. But the VO didn'rt allow Bing to show any of this?? The VO quickly called an end to the interview once she (the VO) thought that Bing was not fluent in English? WHAT A LOAD OF F'ING CRAP!!! What's going through the mind of those GZ f'ers?

 

If they want the interviewee to prove the existence of a valid relationship, then the interviewee should be allowed to give such proof. You said Bing's bundle of documents weighed 8 pounds?? And the VO didn't give a rip about any of it? Clearly all the GZ f'ers care about is language ability. What a load of crap.

 

But what can be done about this INJUSTICE?? I wish I could give you an answer Carl. It is so unfair. Your relationship with Bing is as valid as any relationship.

 

I think you should make a video tape of you talking Chinese. Even if you cheat, who gives a rip? We can do a teleprompter type thing, and a script of things to say using Chinese words ... we can write all the words phonectically in pinyin. You know ... "wong shong how" ... stuff like that. Then sit there and spew off a few minutes of this stuff, and that outta do it.

 

"wa aye-nee chin-ai-da. wa-ji-dow-la", etc, etc.

 

I don't think it would be so hard coming up with a script like this. Hopefully someone here on CFL can help develop a script like this for you, I can help you videotape it, then voila, GZ will get what they want. Then what will be their excuse to refuse the visa?

[PJ]

Carl,

 

I was shocked and dismayed after reading your post. I am so sorry to hear about your situation, I know how frustrating and nerve-racking these things are.

 

In terms of suggestions, unfortunately, I don't think I can come up with any that haven't already been recommended here.

 

Candle letter writing campaign, should it come to that, I would be more than happy to help you organize. Remember that you do have many friends here who want to help you out however we can. Just let us know.

 

However, I think Don's correct in that you should first try to resolve it directly with the consulate. Also, as Strider said, you should remember that the visa was not denied, only request for more evidence.

 

Did you get a copy of the exact verbiage on the blue slip? That might help ... you might want to get Bing to just email you verbatim what it says. Maybe if you post that here more people might be able to assist.

 

P.J.

[keelec]

Maybe they are just looking for some lunchtime humor,

Watching us squirm a bit....

 

Then getting to see a man that can pronounce a dozen words in Chinese try to speak the language for 5 minutes

 

Isn't Chinese tonal.... Subtle differences in pronunciation can make HUGE differences in what is being said????

 

Well, best of luck, and I will try to add some more creative comments later.

 

----- Clifford -----

[olemanoman1950]

Lip syncing comes to mind?? Tape some man speaking chinese and move your mouth like your speaking it while you record it. If New Kids On the Block can do it why not Carl. But try this site for lessons: china.org.cn they teach common travel sentences.. good luck

[keelec]

Lip syncing comes to mind??  Tape some man speaking chinese and move your mouth like your speaking it while you record it.  If New Kids On the Block can do it why not Carl. But try this site for lessons: china.org.cn they teach common travel sentences.. good luck

Good Idea.... I even thought of that.

 

But, the rule is NEVER LIE TO IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS....... You can bluff and everything else, but NEVER LIE.

 

If it was discovered that a forged tape was sent, she might never be granted a visa .... or could even be deported later.... Not worth the risk.

 

----- Clifford ------

[mari]

Dear Carl, I'm speechless, it just seems so unfair, and it does not make any sense to me that you have to produce a tape speaking Chinese when you don't really know the language and Bing and you communicate in English all the time. I have had you present all day long. I wonder when Bing goes back to the consulate, does she has to speak to the same VO? Can anybody tell us how does the process goes in a case like this? Can you just show up or do you have to get another appointment? I also understand they receive american citizens at a certain day and time at the consulate, maybe you can try speaking to someone and explaining your situation and bringing the whole bunch of evidence you got. Try sending an e-mail at first asking what exactly they expect when they make a request like this and make questions according to what they usually ask (a proof of relationship). Once you know, then you can make travel arrangements and do whatever is necessary. I am sure you already have all the evidence they are looking for, if a tape is needed, you can do it in China at the time. Best of luck, and remember you got our 100% support.

[Martytb]

I can't add anything new, but I do want to express my concern for you and Bing.

Was the recording that she had in the wrong format? CVD instead of VHS?

If so maybe converting to VHS solves the problem.

 

I hope.

[warpedbored]

The video was VHS format. I took it here in Oregon while we were talking on Yahoo one night just in case of a situation like this. The VO wouldn't look at it. Bing said the VO said it was no good because it was Yahoo messenger. It appears the VO made up her mind after the first question "do you speak english" and refused to listen to anything after that.

[Mick]

Carl, I too am devasted by hearing this news and am both angered and saddened. What nerve they have and what power.

 

Hang in there my friend and make the video. Brush up on your Chinese and just get through it. I recall back in the Black Hole Days JoninDenver was required to do the same thing. He pulled it off without a hitch as I recall. Well, the black hole was the hitch I guess.

 

Best wishes my friend. You are one of my favorite people on Candle. Keep the faith buddy. You'll make it yet.

[se_lang]

I just got off the phone with Bing again.  She said the VO only asked one question.  "Do you speak english?" Bing told her yes but she hears hard.  The woman said something to her she didn't understand and then denied the visa.  She didn't look at any of our papers and refused the video we made of us talking on Yahoo.  We are devastated obviously.  Lots of good suggestions here.  I am tempted to have her take the same video back down there but I also want to move very carefully.  I don't think it is realistic for me to make a video speaking Chinese.  It would take me too long to memorize that much. I need options.  Keep the ideas coming and thank you all for your support.

Ok here is your script **"ta ma de,ni shi ju da ben dan" repeat for 5 minutes and your set............... Ok so it wont be best, But it is how I feel about what happened if the idea is truly communication then if you have to sit there with a book and translate back and forth or using power word and computer chat what does it matter how you communicate. &^@$%!$##(&^ GZ.

 

I do think as many here have said make a video of you 2 speaking English even if it is practiced over and over. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

 

** Corrected by MM

[keelec]

Carl,

 

The more I hear about this... The more pure nuts it is......

 

It is stupid to ask if the two of you can communicate, then not look at any data documenting your actual communication.

 

Did they even ask how many trips you had made to China to visit? Yes, maybe you should have been in GZ to accompany Bing (or, perhaps just gone and flushed 2 grand down the toilet).

 

I think this clearly a case where the powers that be in GZ decided to deny the visa (or at least add another month's delay) without looking at the data.

 

And, they are obviously discriminating against non-native English speakers (well, that would include ALL CHINESE).

 

Oh, here is something that I found that you might find interesting:

 

Be It Resolved by the Legislative Assembly of the State of Oregon:

 

That the use of diverse languages in business, government and private affairs, and the presence of diverse cultures is welcomed, encouraged, and protected in Oregon.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/J...WFORD/or-ep.htm

 

I am almost certain that there is also federal legislation requiring language tolerance, although I do see it a hot topic.

 

Here is an interesting note from the same website:

 

Consider the irony: despite its increasing diversity, the United States remains an underdeveloped country when it comes to language skills. Immigrants are importing other tongues at record rates. Yet the vast majority of native-born Americans remain stubbornly monolingual. Our ignorance of other languages and cultures handicaps us in dealing with the rest of the world. U.S. trade, diplomacy, and national security all suffer.<1>

 

1. E.g., it has created major problems for U.S. security agencies. "Of the more than 500,000 American troops deployed to the Persian Gulf [during Operation Desert Storm], the Department of Defense was able to identify just 45 U.S. military personnel with any Iraqi language backgrounds, and only 5 of these were trained in intelligence operations"; Congressional finding of the Foreign Language Economic Enhancement Act, H.R. 5442, 102d Congress.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/J...ORD/engplus.htm

[hypoclear]

Carl and Jim,

 

What a great offer Jim. Carl you have a whole new family here at CFL, who will fight and support you in anyway they can so take comfort in this and just chalk this snag up to that.

 

I do have a suggestion about that 5 minute tape. We all know about the remodeling you have done around the house. So how about a tour of the house for Bing with some chinese words tossed in and a narrative of your plans for her, I.E. english classes, chinese markets close by, day trips you both will take etc. Other info you have found out, such as opening bank accounts, getting a picture ID, etc. and I'd also have a shot of this fax, blue slip and some comment regarding it such as, I also only speak broken Mandarin and Bing speaks broken english but with her excellent written english and my electronic translater, (You have one right? and one that speaks.) we are able to communicate etc.

 

This last part is to show them that you did infact recieve their blue slip and that this tape is in addition to the first one you made.

 

Hope this gets the ideas flowing for you when you are ready.

 

Now that you have this new extended family.. I hope there won't be any fighting amongest them... or "You just wait till your father gets home!"

 

Mark and Bea