Dual nationality

[bullmastiff]

It's been always about Chinese who wants be to or has been naturalized and trying to find a way if he or she can keep her old Chinese citizenship.

My friends , when you raised your right hand and took the oath of allegiance , that means you 're sworn voluntarily that this USA is your country and therefore you renounce ALL your prior citizenship and royalty titles.

I wonder if there is any confusion in that !!!

If you have hardship in abandoning your Chinese citizenship , why don't you just be a LPR . That simple.

 

If PRC citizenship is so good , why havent we seen a US citizen renounces his citizenship and takes PRC Citizenship ???

For so many of us who marry Chinese and try to do this immigration thing to bring the spouse to the United States . Why haven't we heard a Chinese who tries to get his or her US citizen spouse a PRC 's green card or something ???

[david_dawei]

It's been always about Chinese who wants be to or has been naturalized and trying to find a way if he or she can keep her old Chinese citizenship.

My friends , when you raised your right hand and took the oath of allegiance , that means you 're sworn voluntarily that this USA is your country and therefore you renounce ALL your prior citizenship and royalty titles.

I wonder if there is any confusion in that !!!

If you have hardship in abandoning your Chinese citizenship , why don't you just be a LPR . That simple.

 

If PRC citizenship is so good , why havent we seen a US citizen renounces his citizenship and takes PRC Citizenship ???

For so many of us who marry Chinese and try to do this immigration thing to bring the spouse to the United States . Why haven't we heard a Chinese who tries to get his or her US citizen spouse a PRC 's green card or something ???

 

I might say that if one cannot comprehend another cultures attachment to their roots then it may not be fair to knock them. Even after chinese become US citizens they still refer to each other as 'chinese'. There is a satisfaction in being able to rise above 'citizenship' since true freedom is to be a citizen of this earth; it's just that man wants you to take a side and pay a fee and listen to their set of rules for life.

 

Getting a PRC greencard is not as easy but there are threads here about how to do it and it was discussed at some length a few years ago. It would allow someone to live in china without the need to work to justify staying in the country.

 

I personally see little reason for chinese to become US citizens (or visa versa) since there seems to be more to gain by having a foothold in both. But I know there are reasons to do it and it's a personal choice. To each his/her own.

[rogerluli]

Then the question would arise as to what are the purposes of keep dual nationality. If they are mainly for the ease of travel and stay in those 2 countries, then a not too complicated and cheaper way is to have a Chinese passport and a US green card.

 

 

The reason people would want dual citizenship is so that they can work/stay for indefinite periods in either country but also have the right to return to the other country. Perhaps a couple would like to work for 10 years in China, then come back to the U.S., or vice versa. There are also people like RogerLuli who want to retire in China with a Chinese spouse. If his spouse keeps Chinese citizenship and U.S. green card, she will be fine in China for two years with a reentry permit, but then what? She can apply for a new re-entry permit. Then what? And after that, then what?

 

They are retired and there is not an end-date to their stay in China, but she would like to have the door open to the U.S. just in case. (For one thing, once the green card is gone for good, the U.S. would probably not grant her a visitor visa to go see Roger's family.)

 

 

I thought I heard someone mention me... B)

I think using 2 passports is entirely doable but there are risks...People have already laid out the procedure...You must always use a third country to change between the US passport and PRC...Hong Kong and most other southeast asian countries will work...I know there are umpteen thousands of Chinese who are now citizens of the US, Canada, Australia, etc. who are doing it...

 

I think it is too risky...Remember if anything goes wrong inside China you are a Chinese citizen...Your western citizenship is of no use because you declared yourself to be a PRCC by entering on that passport...Of course the bizarre twist is that by becoming a citizen of another country you automatically gave up Chinese citizenship so how can they now imprison you as being Chinese...You could ceratinly make that arguement and good luck with it...

 

If you are not involved in any business dealings, do not drive your own car, don't carry placards demanding freedom for Tibet, are quite sure that there will never be any "issues" between our nations, etc. it is doable and the risk would be very low...Only you and laopo can decide if its worth it...

[cjr818]

I'd like to start a discussion about dual citizenship. As most know, China does not recognize dual nationality. And yet some people do manage to keep both nationalities. This comes up on forums every now and then. But overall, it's not easy to get good and complete information on this. I hope that a few of the members here may have solid info.

 

Since questions of which citizenship to maintain come up here periodically, I figure this will be of interest.

 

I know generally that the process involves making pit stops in Hong Kong and switching out passports each time you travel between the U.S. and China. My questions would be:

 

-Exactly what is the process?

 

-How risky is it? If the dual-nationality holder were searched, the officers would surely discover the second passport.

 

-Would clandestine dual nationality be a realistic long-term option? Might coordination between countries eventually lead to cross-referencing, so that Chin would find out about the dual nationality?

 

I'm looking forward to hearing from those who can fill out this subject.

 

 

I might be able to shed some light on the subject for you. I myself am a dual citizen, a national of Canada and the US. I do sometimes travel with two passports, when crossing between the US and Canada. This works to my advantage, as everything I carry back and forth in unlimited value is brought back to the other country as duty free. But your questions are more about the advantages of holding dual nationality to be used in China. As far as I know this can't be done in China, holding a Chinese Passport and a US Passport.

 

When one enters China, and clear customs you will need to present your Chinese National Passport or Foreign Passport with valid visa, with the exception of Hong Kong, Hong Kong residents will provide their border crossing booklet, it looks much like a passport, but is only valid for crossing to/from Hong Kong and PRC.

 

When departing China, during check-in at the airlines, you are to present your valid Chinese Passport with valid visa to the US. If you use your Chinese Passport without a valid visa issued in it, you won't be allowed to board the aircraft, unless you provide them with your valid Chinese Passport and valid US greencard. You won't be able to pass China's customs without a valid visa or US greencard.

 

I don't see how others have been able to use both a Chinese Passport and US Passport simultaneously.

 

If someone has done this before, please let me know, I'd be very interested since my wife is still holding her Chinese Passport, it will be very useful to know once she becomes a US Citizen.

 

Thanks,

cjr818

[credzba]

I might be able to shed some light on the subject for you. I myself am a dual citizen, a national of Canada and the US. I do sometimes travel with two passports, when crossing between the US and Canada. This works to my advantage, as everything I carry back and forth in unlimited value is brought back to the other country as duty free. But your questions are more about the advantages of holding dual nationality to be used in China. As far as I know this can't be done in China, holding a Chinese Passport and a US Passport.

 

When one enters China, and clear customs you will need to present your Chinese National Passport or Foreign Passport with valid visa, with the exception of Hong Kong, Hong Kong residents will provide their border crossing booklet, it looks much like a passport, but is only valid for crossing to/from Hong Kong and PRC.

 

When departing China, during check-in at the airlines, you are to present your valid Chinese Passport with valid visa to the US. If you use your Chinese Passport without a valid visa issued in it, you won't be allowed to board the aircraft, unless you provide them with your valid Chinese Passport and valid US greencard. You won't be able to pass China's customs without a valid visa or US greencard.

 

I don't see how others have been able to use both a Chinese Passport and US Passport simultaneously.

 

If someone has done this before, please let me know, I'd be very interested since my wife is still holding her Chinese Passport, it will be very useful to know once she becomes a US Citizen.

 

Thanks,

cjr818

 

 

The only way I have heard to use 2 passports is, clumsy at best. Still if you wish to keep your property in China, and want to stay in America without hassle, the clumsy may be worth it.

 

Travel to PRC.

1) Use US passport with visa to Hong Kong.

2) Use China passport from Hong Kong to PRC.

 

Return to America.

1) Use Border crossing to go from PRC to Hong Kong.

2) Return to America using US passport.

 

This keeps everyone happy with stamps etc. but is risky as you say.

If PRC ever wanted to stop this, they easily could, also if the PRC officer ever sees the US passport, he will destroy the PRC passport.

[2mike&jin]

It's been my experience, crossing from PRC to Hong Kong and Macao that the "Travelers Booklet" most refer to is utilized by the border guards in the PRC/SAR like a passport. Within it, there is a "VISA" like instrument that allows a visit in either SAR for a number of exits/entries and a perod of time that you are allowed to stay...ala like a visa.

 

I too envisioned using the US Passport to get my wife to a third place and then entry with her CHinese passport...but the above doesn't pass the "one time out one time in requirement" that the SAR's have and more importantly....if you were in Taiawan - and tried to do that....you wouldn't have an equal number of entries/exits with a corresponding visit visa to Taiwan. We, on our last trip to China (Sep 2010) got to go directly from Taiwan to Xiamen using the direct flights avoiding - HK. I can report - there are two different "areas" to pass through to get back to the PRC. One is for Taiwan Citizens and the other is for foreigners....ala --- PRC citizens and the rest of us in two lines. We were able to use one line...because we had "Baby in Arms". JinLin was required to show PRC passport - but they were absolutely adament about her showing her GreenCard. I tried to test the waters with only handing them back her "driver license" and "GOv't (retired military dependent ID CARD) ID but they ONLY would take the Green Card. This quickly dashed my hopes of being able to "end run" the entry with two passports.

 

Ok, my new strategy which has no legs, is to obtain JinLin's USC when she is qualified next year. It has been reported by others - that there is currently no apparent linkage between the Passport (a travel document) and hukou, used for all official actions in China. It is my intention to renew her Chinese Passport prior to her becoming a USC...just in case we don't get it cut up. I don't have the forms for PRC VISA in front of me, but it is my intention once she has a US passport to just go for the 2 year Multiple entry visitor visas, as me and my son do, and let her travel as a USC. I will just try to continue to let her do Chinese things using her Hukou as she always has...with the concern that eventually there may be some issue with it. Currently the PRC passport is only used for international travel and nothing else that I'm aware of unless you are on travel outside the PRC and need assistance of some sort from a PRC embassy. She is lucky in that the house she bought - exceeded 170M2 which qualified her to become her own head of houselhold and move her Hukou to xiamen, fujian - from her Uncles household in her home town located in An Hui. I sure would like to "temporarily lose" her Green Card...just prior to getting her US Passport - in the event we ever had to show it when we were in some local PSB in China. However, there are many risks with the above strategy....but as I see them now...mostly that they will just demand the Chinese Passport and cut it up, or render it invalid in the Computer if you don't have it on your person. However, I'm not sure a few thousand RMB wouldn't fix the problem....on the spot...given most of the situations I've seen in the past....but being at risk is never a good way to go.

 

Last comment - I can only think that border crossings, sharing of information, and tighter controls will continue to improve and make it harder and harder to get away with anything that is not 100% in each country. Of course like all Gov'ts or Government organizations they are often in conflict with each other and to satisfy one is to be at risk with the other. Best of luck.

[dnoblett]

The only way I have heard to use 2 passports is, clumsy at best. Still if you wish to keep your property in China, and want to stay in America without hassle, the clumsy may be worth it.

 

Travel to PRC.

1) Use US passport with visa to Hong Kong.

2) Use China passport from Hong Kong to PRC.

 

Return to America.

1) Use Border crossing to go from PRC to Hong Kong.

2) Return to America using US passport.

 

This keeps everyone happy with stamps etc. but is risky as you say.

If PRC ever wanted to stop this, they easily could, also if the PRC officer ever sees the US passport, he will destroy the PRC passport.

 

Note: Border crossing as a Chinese citizen will need at least a document allowing entry to HK. (Chinese passport with a visa for USA or other country, green-card, or an entry permit for HK)

[rogerluli]

Doesn't this match up???

 

 

1. Wife leaves US on US passport;

2. Wife arrives Hong Kong on US passport,

3. Wife leaves Hong Kong with Chinese-issued HK travel permit; and

4. Wife arrives China on HK travel permit.

 

Reverse as necessary...

 

Her Chinese passport is never used...

[2mike&jin]

Doesn't this match up???

 

 

1. Wife leaves US on US passport;

2. Wife arrives Hong Kong on US passport,

3. Wife leaves Hong Kong with Chinese-issued HK travel permit; and

4. Wife arrives China on HK travel permit.

 

Reverse as necessary...

 

Her Chinese passport is never used...

 

 

 

ROger...it sure does....except all the travel would "HAVE TO BE" accomplished within the timeframe of the exit/visit permit to HK or Macao, and as you know the exit/visit permits are generally issued by the Hukou location. We used a travel agency to obtain them...but as I remember it required her ID card be present to obtain. I have seen 30 day ones, and 90 day ones - unsure if there are other time periods. My wifes first HK travel permit was one time 30 days, the second 1 year 90 days - multiple entries. But again, all travel "technically" would have to be accomplished within the travel/visit period authorized. I wanted to do this exact same thing....but again the 1 exit 1 entry match...seemed to be the killer.

 

Of course if you leave the US on a US passport you have to have a VISA to China in it, or you tell them your destination is Only HK. That might work...and you technically could transit into China using the US Passport and VIsa....again, the only way I see to get into country....but I might be interpreting it to finely....but it's based on my border crossings in Macao and HK..with the wife 5 or 6 times. All easy....if you have the matching documents.

 

If anyone has actually done it this way...and gotten entry without a valid matching exit-entry - visit match...I sure would like to hear about it....because I would be right behind them with bells on...

[warpedbored]

I have heard of people doing this but keep in mind if you are a US citizen and enter China on a Chinese passport and ID the US can't help you should you be found out by the Chinese government. Not worth the risk IMO.

[rogerluli]

I have heard of people doing this but keep in mind if you are a US citizen and enter China on a Chinese passport and ID the US can't help you should you be found out by the Chinese government. Not worth the risk IMO.

 

 

The only real risk is if you run afoul of the law...Then yes you will be treated as a PRCC and your US citizenship will not help you...If it is merely found out that you are a US citizen by Chinese authorities they will just cancel your passport and hukou...

[ÕÔÙ»ºÍ³Î°ÛÀû]

Consular assistance is way overrated. In the movies it's depicted as a get of of jail free card, but in reality all it means is that if you get into trouble you might get a 5 minute meeting with some flunky from the embassy where he wishes you good luck.

[Kyle]

Consular assistance is way overrated. In the movies it's depicted as a get of of jail free card, but in reality all it means is that if you get into trouble you might get a 5 minute meeting with some flunky from the embassy where he wishes you good luck.

 

And you're speaking from experience?

[AmyAndDoug]

I heard that during the most recent visit of President Hu to the White House, he brought up the issue of dual-citizenship to Obama. It seems that it's the U.S. who's unwilling due to fear of losing Chinese American talents. Let's hope that China will push further and harder, then maybe Obama will give in.

[ÕÔÙ»ºÍ³Î°ÛÀû]

Consular assistance is way overrated. In the movies it's depicted as a get of of jail free card, but in reality all it means is that if you get into trouble you might get a 5 minute meeting with some flunky from the embassy where he wishes you good luck.

 

And you're speaking from experience?

 

 

Not mine, but an English-teaching friend's.