Our situation - any red flags?

[Woodman]

When I first started looking at this site I was thinking the interview was just something we needed to prepare properly for - but otherwise it would be straightforward, considering the strength and documentation of our relationship.

 

Now as I read more, I am getting more and more concerned about the capriciousness of the decision sometimes.

 

I'd like to describe our relationship and history - and ask those who have experience to tell me - what parts of this I should be concerned about for the "bonifide relationship" and if there is anything that I can do about it.

 

I legally separated from my ex wife in Nov 2007, and started dating almost immediately (in California, legal separation is considered the end of the relationship). I did a lot of domestic internet dating, but finally decided to look outside the country - mainly because I wanted to be married, and wanted to access women who were serious about marriage.

 

I met Na on line in Feb 2009. Within a few days, we were emailing daily (I have all the emails and am thinking I'll provide them ALL for the interview.) We felt that we were in love by month or so, but I know you really can't predict how that will survive a physical meeting.

 

(Meanwhile, finally, after a year and a half process with lawyers, my divorce became final in April.)

 

So knowing that a physical meeting was the next step, I went to meet her in May, and we spent most of a week together. A month after I came home, we confirmed with each other that we wanted to be married. Her very traditional family insisted that we marry soon - they were worried I was not true. I told Na I would, but it could not be a legal marriage, for the visa purposes. We both agreed it would be, in our mind, a betrothal ceremony. I traveled to Hunan in August and we went through a simple informal ceremony and dinner with her family. I bought her a diamond ring of several thousand dollars.

 

By the way, I am 49 and she is 35. I have a 10 yr old daughter, she has a 6 yr old son. Her decision to look for an american husband was because she felt americans were more honest (her ex had cheated on her) and would accept her child more easily. Much, much later, she admitted to me however that she had hoped that I would move to China, as she really did not want to go to the United States (I think the propoganda about the evil US is strong!). But she knows with my child and career, I can't leave and, wanting to be with me, agreed that her future lies in the US. I am absolutely convinced of her sincerity about having no interest in coming to the US, other than the fact that I am her.

 

Around July we started video chatting, when she first got an internet line (which I paid for). She lost her job with a layoff (later found she was selected in part because they knew she was planning to come to the US). I since gave her some money from time to time, though I had to force it on her. She was very embarrassed to ask. Now she has a job again.

 

While we are not legally married, we call each other husband and wife in our emails. I am concerned a little about this confusing the consulate officer - I hope the statement that we are husband and wife in our hearts and in our belief in our future together explains it.

 

Her English is improving all the time (it was almost non-existent when we first met - but she is very good with translation tools). We used to video chat daily, but with her job now it is more like twice a week. I have all the history of course, and was going to dump it to a file and provide it. As time went by, the log became more and more one sided, since she can speak to me in English reasonably well, but has trouble understanding me sometimes, so I confirm what I say in writing often. My 10 year old daughter sometimes joins in our chats, and looks forward to Na coming. I have also chatted with her son a little, but he actually lives in a neighboring city with Na's sister and mother, as she cannot care for him with her job( and it is a better school).

 

We are absolutely committed to each other, and miss each other terribly. Video chat helps - but is not the same. I haven't visited since, not because of the money, but the difficulty in dealing with my child's care in my absence for any trip more than a few days.

 

I started the K-1 process in August, immediately after I returned from our betrothal. We got UCIS approval in November and yesterday got the P-3.

 

My plan is, once she gets her visa she will come without her son, so as to give her time to adapt without being the sole caregiver of a boy who doesn't speak english, and so as to not interupt his school. He will follow in a few months, timed to his school year if possible. I will go alone and get him, if I cannot get travel papers for Na to go with me.

 

From reading, I see that a couple difficult points are that our relationship was only 6 months old when we betrothed and currently is 13 months. We have a 15 year age difference (though she is a 35 year old mother and divorcee). The betrothal ceremony and our calling each other husband and wife might be a problem. Does the fact that we both have children help or hurt? I wonder if I should have my daughter write a letter about her knowing Na and have it notarized?

 

I am a successful senior manager in a corporation, though I was unemployed for a year - just started my new position this week. So it will take a month to accumulate paystubs, though I am sure my pay will demonstrate my ability to support. Without really saying how much money I have in the bank - its enough to live on in the SF Bay area for a year (if I didn't have an income), and is invested and getting a good return.

 

So what should I be concerned about, and what can I do to prepare?

[joe_33]

short relationship could be a red flag, wedding photos - if you don't have now, make sure to take some before her interview and bring to interview. Ask you workplace to send letter to GUZ in advance (reach GUZ right before the interview would be ideal). Other than photos, GUZ may not see anything she brings to her interview.

[Sam and Fen]

Do not, I repeat DO NOT give Guz any emails reffering to each other as Husband and Wife. Big RED flag.

[Yuanyang]

I don't see any issues. We had a short courtship; finalized our divorces within 2 months of our 1st meeting and we married ["met" in September, divorces final in November, met and married in December]. No troubles at all. (AND we're still together and Happy!)

 

I do think that the "Letter of the Evolution of the Relationship" is an important document.

 

 

 

Good Luck.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Yuanyang (see edit history)

[weiaijiayou]

As a general rule, the more trips to see her, the better. Also, showing family members' approval of the relationship, and growing bonds between step-parent and step-child, I believe, would help. Depending on when the interview is, maybe you could take a third trip with your daughter at the beginning of her summer vacation? In addition to producing more relationship evidence, it could be a tremendous experience for your daughter and could help communicate to her that you want her by your side in this new part of your life.

 

For finances, the consulate usually expects 3 years of tax transcripts and W2s showing your ability to provide stable and ample support for your spouse, so, depending on when and how long you were unemployed, this could potentially hurt your case. On the other hand, as a senior executive, if your salary is high enough, you may have no problems whatsoever. The consulate process is nowhere near transparent, so we can only offer educated guesses and advice based on our own experiences.

 

In choosing pictures to include in your petition and interview materials, I would suggest choosing ones where you and your fiancee appear to be well matched. At one point several years ago, someone posted a link to an article written by a visa officer who worked at a consulate in Europe (I believe). In it, the VO seemed to confirm the expectation that cases where the petitioner and beneficiary looked wildly mismatched in attractiveness and age drew his attention and suspicion. To me, this seems logical, and I wouldn't doubt that VOs at GUZ, also being human beings, may be subject to the same bias (they think they are protecting you from being scammed). I'm not saying that you are mismatched at all, but just suggesting that, if you're concerned about the age difference, it may be useful to select photos that downplay rather than exaggerate it... And again, as with the income, this is just general advice and not a rule -- many people here had similar or larger age differences and had easy interviews.

[slw268]

Nothing seemed to work in our favor when we were trying for a visa

(Don't be discouraged, we just had a bad mojo workin').

 

But I can say this, there was a guy one time who provided studio photos

as proof, then couldn't understand why they were denied.

 

What I'm suggesting is lots of candid photos showing yuan fen between y'all.

 

Best regards

[bullmastiff]

As a general rule, the more trips to see her, the better. Also, showing family members' approval of the relationship, and growing bonds between step-parent and step-child, I believe, would help. Depending on when the interview is, maybe you could take a third trip with your daughter at the beginning of her summer vacation? In addition to producing more relationship evidence, it could be a tremendous experience for your daughter and could help communicate to her that you want her by your side in this new part of your life.

 

For finances, the consulate usually expects 3 years of tax transcripts and W2s showing your ability to provide stable and ample support for your spouse, so, depending on when and how long you were unemployed, this could potentially hurt your case. On the other hand, as a senior executive, if your salary is high enough, you may have no problems whatsoever. The consulate process is nowhere near transparent, so we can only offer educated guesses and advice based on our own experiences.

 

In choosing pictures to include in your petition and interview materials, I would suggest choosing ones where you and your fiancee appear to be well matched. At one point several years ago, someone posted a link to an article written by a visa officer who worked at a consulate in Europe (I believe). In it, the VO seemed to confirm the expectation that cases where the petitioner and beneficiary looked wildly mismatched in attractiveness and age drew his attention and suspicion. To me, this seems logical, and I wouldn't doubt that VOs at GUZ, also being human beings, may be subject to the same bias (they think they are protecting you from being scammed). I'm not saying that you are mismatched at all, but just suggesting that, if you're concerned about the age difference, it may be useful to select photos that downplay rather than exaggerate it... And again, as with the income, this is just general advice and not a rule -- many people here had similar or larger age differences and had easy interviews.

[bullmastiff]

Hi ; I am also new in this but I want to be objective as how the GZ VO will see it . I think there is no doubt that VO will find that your motive is sincere . No issue there. What they will do is to really ask her questions to find out her motives. This is what is going to determine the final outcome.

My suggestion is for you to come to China again and spend more time with her and her family . Why not get married in China legally ? anyhow, get to know her physically in person , spend more time with her and her family. take more photos .spend more time ,time and time .....

Her reasoning makes sense to me about finding a Caucasian guy as more potential marriage partner than a Chinese at this stage of her life because I understand the culture there and also here. Very rarely , Chinese men will accept women with kids from previous marriage . VO has different mindset of course, Fraud is first on their mind . So, in preparation for your fiancee interview, MOST importantly is for her to be VERY clear about answering her son and previous marriage circumstances. If every thing is cut and dry , I am sure she will succeed . If things are blurry , the case will be turned down. She must unequivocally answer that she intends to marry you for real not for just immigration purpose.

[Stepbrow]

There's not much you can do at this late stage. You already have the P-3, and I assume that your fiance has returned the DS-230 part I, and the OF-169. Just be positive with her. Go over the possible questions that can be asked, and hope for the best.

[credzba]

My experience was similar to your.

I separated from my ex-wife, and ask for divorce May of 2006, but did not finalize my divorce until Mar of 2007.

I met my now wife in Sept. of 2006, and we married in May of 2007.

As you can see, I had some overlap as you did, and I married shortly after my divorce.

 

Also, I should point out my wife did NOT want to come to America, and in retrospect I wish we had just moved to China. I know you think it would be difficult with your 6 yr old, but it is difficult for her child to come here too.

For us, my wife had a good job there, and has only gotten terrible jobs here. I could have gotten a decent job in China.. well its water under the bridge now, but I mention it ecause I hope you consider it seriously.

 

My wife had a quick and easy interview, and there was never any hint of problem.

 

When you read here, it is easy to get the idea that the process is random, but I don't believe it is.

"My own opinion" is that money has a lot to do with it.

If the US citizen makes over 70k a year, and the Chinese citizen has a comfortable life in China, the visa is not scrutinized very closly.

 

They are looking for fraud, and some provinces in China have a bad reputation. Those wives are given grief, whether they are fraudulent or not.

 

The VO is not making moral decisions, they are making generalizations based on some information were not sure of.

 

If you have a good job in America, and your wife has a good life in China, I really think your visa will be pretty straight forward.

 

That doesn't mean you should not prepare with all your ability, just means you shouldn't sweat the quick marriage.

 

"My opinion, no warranty express or implied"

[RobertH]

I dont see to much to be worried about relationship wise. It sounds allot like Hui and I when we 1st met.

 

I would suggest doing everything you can to make a few more trips to see her.

 

I went 3 times in 6 months, we got a blue at her interview for financial issues but it was cleared up very quickly and she is picking up her visa in a few days.

 

The income issue may cause you problems, I spoke with a supervisor in GUZ about my finacial issues and she made it very clear what they care most about if the most recient year of income. Do you have a Co-sponsor?

 

I hate to say something liek this because I dont want to make you feel bad, but I think her interview will result in a Blue slip at best. The reason I say this is because of only 1 short trip to see her and the new job with you having been out of work for a year before getting it.

 

You can up the odds in your direction if you make another trip to see her and get a co-sponsor in place...

 

 

I wish you luck and I hope you get a Pink.

Edited March 17, 2010 by RobertH (see edit history)

[Woodman]

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll respond to a few points that some of you made and ask a couple more questions.

 

My saying I was unemployed isn't the full story. I did consulting work during the time, under my own company name. Since my goal was a secure job, I think of myself as unemployed, but I can describe it as the opposite easily.

 

Before that one year, I worked for the same company for 17 years, was making more than 200k, and was a manager of 200 people. Now it is a smaller responsibility in some ways, but it is a smaller pond so I am higher up. Not as much money, plus after the divorce I had comparatively little left in reserve. But I think I can put a good picture forward about support.

 

Taking my child is out of the question at this point. I share 50% custody with my ex wife, and relations are not good with the ex. I'm sure she woudl not let her come (there is school anyway). Thats why its hard for me to get away - I need to get the ex to take my daughter, and while she will, it will be...difficult.

 

A couple of you mentioned wedding photos, evidence of meeting the family. Thats my biggest question in my mind. Like I said, it was a wedding in the eyes of her family, but a betrothal in reality (not a legal marriage) and thus I went for a fiancee visa, not a marriage. I got the message (perhaps it was wrong) that the wait was less for a fiancee visa. If we were to get legally married now, would it start the process over again??

 

Also, I have been trying to decide about whether I give the photos of the wedding. They show us together, happy, with all her family. But we are wearing red, and I think that makes it obvious that is a chinese wedding ceremony. I can edit out the husband and wife references, and I really am inclined to just present it truthfully, just emphasizing that it was not a legal marriage. I am afraid if I caution her to hide it, she will feel uncomfortable and may make mistakes.

 

Perhaps I will try to make another short visit. You are very persuasive.

 

She is NOT well off, and I could see how an outsider might assume she was after a better life in america. Nothing could be farther than the truth - in fact I think I need to caution her about not being too honest about her feelings about living in America. She is very afraid she will miss her mother and family so much that she will have to return. And she has never shown any interest in america, or what things are like here - she would much rather I come live in China. In fact, that is one reason why I think we should hold off marrying until she is here for awhile. If she is very unhappy, I want her to have that option, to go home. But I don't think she will (and she doesn't either). She very much wants to be with me (and I with her).

 

David and Na

[weiaijiayou]

Your income situation sounds good then. Two things seem to apply generally. First, will your tax transcripts show that your annual income for the past three years has exceeded 125% of the poverty line for the size of your household (including expected spouse)? Second, do you make a very large salary that would further ease a VO’s concerns that your wife could become a public charge? You seem like you’re easily good on the first count and could possibly gain points on the second. The main reason I wanted to stress the point about being consistent for the past three years is that recently I’ve seen some weird posts; in one, the petitioner got a new job and then tried to extrapolate his income from the first month or two on the job to calculate an annual income. His wife got a blue slip for financials, and he was somehow confused about why, even though he seemed to have done research on this site while preparing for the interview. You need to have either tax information documenting income (or assets if you're using those), or a co-sponsor.

 

As for marrying, I believe that if you marry in China then your wife would be ineligible for a K-1 visa. As you're preparing for the interview, you'll see that you need a notarized booklet certifying that your wife is single. To the best of my knowledge, getting married would force you to start over in a new "spouse" visa process.

 

I don't see any problems with including pictures from your engagement banquet. If they are the only pictures of you with her family then I’d definitely include them in the material your fiancee will take to the interview. Include notes with your pictures that identify them as your engagement party. If they are clearly labeled then a VO should not have a hard time understanding what it is. Make sure your fiancee understands that you are not married, never had a wedding, and that she and the VO should always refer to you as 'fiance' not 'husband.'

 

In general I think you have a good attitude about (1) being proactive in figuring out what parts of your relationship history might create problems and (2) wanting your fiancee to always, first and foremost, be honest at the interview.

Edited March 18, 2010 by weiaijiayou (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

On the surface, I would say you are falling into the normal GUZ trap on many issues...

 

It's so late in the game that it's not worth talking about since it won't change anything.

 

Your best approach is to go to the interview and chalk up another visit and prepare her that the interview is only one step of many, but not always the last step; they may ask for more (with a blue slip or return it with a white) or they may give the visa. Not to worry since you are by her side in the long run. Then take it from there.

[Michael]

Wow gerat story. I did do a K1 the first time around. Yes Gus always seems to ask how many times I was there. I did not go to the first interview. They said it was not a bonafide relationship. So then we did a CR 1. Now this time I did come to Guangzhou and gave my wife my passport. Yes they did look at it and new I was there. They also ask how many times I was in China. Even though you cannot go to the interview I felt I really wanted to be here this time. We did get a pink slip this time. So I hope this helps out a little with what happen to us. Right now when we get the visa in our hands it will really be good.

 

Michael