Understanding our differences

[Guest jin979]

I have lived in USA for 2 years now so I hope my observations will be taken as that.

Please look as this as like a pyramid I put a base members build from that.

This is not a attack on anything.

 

Chinese axpect dishonesty, cheaty

 

chinese like to shout to everyone

 

Chinese do not trust others or govt

 

Americans like to think others are honest

 

Americans like to be quiet

 

Americans want to trust others and govt

[Smitty]

I won't comment on your observations of Chinese people, but I know noisy loud Americans, and I don't know any Americans that trust the government! Most Americans I know are fairly trusting though.

[A Mafan]

I have lived in USA for 2 years now so I hope my observations will be taken as that.

Please look as this as like a pyramid I put a base members build from that.

This is not a attack on anything.

 

Chinese axpect dishonesty, cheaty

 

chinese like to shout to everyone

 

Chinese do not trust others or govt

 

Americans like to think others are honest

 

Americans like to be quiet

 

Americans want to trust others and govt

 

One of the interesting differences between China and America is that in the US, the finest restaurants are quiet, dark, and roomy...but in China, the finest restaurants are loud, bright, and crowded! ...although if you are even middle class, you usually get a private room so it isn't quite as noisy/crowded.

 

However, regarding the dishonesty/trust issue, I've noticed that myself.

 

In my opinion, it is because there are so many more Chinese people, and they are packed into a much smaller geophysical space, and Chinese civilization has a far, far longer unbroken string of development. In the US, for most of our history, there was always more land and/or resources than anyone could use, so your best bet was to think of a way to build wealth through hard work.

 

In China, by contrast, hard work can't get you very far when there are 300 other people just as starving as you and willing to work just as hard to get food to eat. So some people in China turned to deception, corruption, etc, earlier to get what they need. China's rigid hierarchical govt structure probably also made it difficult to make the connections necessary to bootstrap oneself up from poverty to wealth.

 

Wisdom is inherited from our forebearers. In China, there is a hella lot more forebearers to inherit wisdom from. So it strikes me that Chinese society, taken as a whole, is more...well, not mature or advanced, exactly...but just more. More cutthroat, or more competitive, perhaps. So dishonesty is more developed, but so is the ability to sense dishonesty in others.

 

Which is one of the reasons why US company after US company after US company goes in to China and loses its shirt. It is difficult (though not impossible) for a foreign company to make money in China.

[Guest jin979]

I have lived in USA for 2 years now so I hope my observations will be taken as that.

Please look as this as like a pyramid I put a base members build from that.

This is not a attack on anything.

 

Chinese axpect dishonesty, cheaty

 

chinese like to shout to everyone

 

Chinese do not trust others or govt

 

Americans like to think others are honest

 

Americans like to be quiet

 

Americans want to trust others and govt

 

One of the interesting differences between China and America is that in the US, the finest restaurants are quiet, dark, and roomy...but in China, the finest restaurants are loud, bright, and crowded! ...although if you are even middle class, you usually get a private room so it isn't quite as noisy/crowded.

 

However, regarding the dishonesty/trust issue, I've noticed that myself.

 

In my opinion, it is because there are so many more Chinese people, and they are packed into a much smaller geophysical space, and Chinese civilization has a far, far longer unbroken string of development. In the US, for most of our history, there was always more land and/or resources than anyone could use, so your best bet was to think of a way to build wealth through hard work.

 

In China, by contrast, hard work can't get you very far when there are 300 other people just as starving as you and willing to work just as hard to get food to eat. So some people in China turned to deception, corruption, etc, earlier to get what they need. China's rigid hierarchical govt structure probably also made it difficult to make the connections necessary to bootstrap oneself up from poverty to wealth.

 

Wisdom is inherited from our forebearers. In China, there is a hella lot more forebearers to inherit wisdom from. So it strikes me that Chinese society, taken as a whole, is more...well, not mature or advanced, exactly...but just more. More cutthroat, or more competitive, perhaps. So dishonesty is more developed, but so is the ability to sense dishonesty in others.

 

Which is one of the reasons why US company after US company after US company goes in to China and loses its shirt. It is difficult (though not impossible) for a foreign company to make money in China.

 

Free masons (lords templers) mean nothing in China

No need to join that club

[heyjimi]

I have lived in USA for 2 years now so I hope my observations will be taken as that.

Please look as this as like a pyramid I put a base members build from that.

This is not a attack on anything.

 

Chinese axpect dishonesty, cheaty

 

chinese like to shout to everyone

 

Chinese do not trust others or govt

 

Americans like to think others are honest

 

Americans like to be quiet

 

Americans want to trust others and govt

Hmmm.......well i can only speak for my self,I think Americans like to think of others as honest,that is true,But speaking for my self,I do not trust the government....absolutely not !!!!!!! I noticed you used the word "want" to trust(others)and the government,and I think yes that is true to a certain extent,but at the end of the day,many if not most Americans will tell you they do not trust the government.......the trusting "others"....i think that is true americans want to trust others.

[slw268]

Nonetheless, I think people WANT to trust their government

as the OP stated.

[warpedbored]

We don't expect government workers to require bribes in order to get things done. We are outraged when we learn a government official is corrupt. In China it's business as usual. In this sense we do trust our government more.

[amberjack1234]

We don't expect government workers to require bribes in order to get things done. We are outraged when we learn a government official is corrupt. In China it's business as usual. In this sense we do trust our government more.

I don't know about government workers that are above my level when I retired but even something as simple as a dinner with a potential contractor that the contractor paid for can call for adverse action against the government worker. I am not saying that it is not done but get caught and you would wind up in a world of trouble.

 

Larry

[Dennis143]

Our government workers who are on the take are those (all of them?) legislatures who take money from and then provide favors to special interests groups.

 

Rep. Charles Rangel resigned today from being investigated by The Senate Ethics Committee.

 

Truth is our legislatures might as well be wearing suits with corporate sponsor patches on them ala NASCAR drivers.

Edited March 4, 2010 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[weiaijiayou]

I've seen some interesting studies comparing Chinese and Americans in the realm of risk taking.

 

First, it was observed that Chinese people tend to be more risk seeking, on average, than Americans. Exploring this, a few researchers took large samples of proverbs from both languages and had people from both countries rate them in terms of whether they seemed to advocate risk seeking or risk avoidance. It turns out that Chinese proverbs tend to encourage risk-taking (e.g., "shibai shi chenggong zhi mu", "failure is the mother of success") more so than English ones, which more often seem to encourage taking the safe option (e.g., "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush").

 

I believe the researchers also speculated that Chinese financial risk taking is bolstered by their greater reliance on social networks for financial support.

[a2784]

I've seen some interesting studies comparing Chinese and Americans in the realm of risk taking.

 

First, it was observed that Chinese people tend to be more risk seeking, on average, than Americans. Exploring this, a few researchers took large samples of proverbs from both languages and had people from both countries rate them in terms of whether they seemed to advocate risk seeking or risk avoidance. It turns out that Chinese proverbs tend to encourage risk-taking (e.g., "shibai shi chenggong zhi mu", "failure is the mother of success") more so than English ones, which more often seem to encourage taking the safe option (e.g., "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush").

 

I believe the researchers also speculated that Chinese financial risk taking is bolstered by their greater reliance on social networks for financial support.

Maybe this is in their personal life. Having worked with the factory operators and engineers for over 3 years I would not say the Chinese are risk takers. If they can't CYA or push it up to the next level for a decision than nothing gets done.

 

Trying to encourage team building and working across departments and at the same co-worker level can sometimes be really frustrating. If you don't have the correct "power" title you can find it a long battle to lead by example. Much different than in the States.

[weiaijiayou]

I've seen some interesting studies comparing Chinese and Americans in the realm of risk taking.

 

First, it was observed that Chinese people tend to be more risk seeking, on average, than Americans. Exploring this, a few researchers took large samples of proverbs from both languages and had people from both countries rate them in terms of whether they seemed to advocate risk seeking or risk avoidance. It turns out that Chinese proverbs tend to encourage risk-taking (e.g., "shibai shi chenggong zhi mu", "failure is the mother of success") more so than English ones, which more often seem to encourage taking the safe option (e.g., "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush").

 

I believe the researchers also speculated that Chinese financial risk taking is bolstered by their greater reliance on social networks for financial support.

Maybe this is in their personal life. Having worked with the factory operators and engineers for over 3 years I would not say the Chinese are risk takers. If they can't CYA or push it up to the next level for a decision than nothing gets done.

 

Trying to encourage team building and working across departments and at the same co-worker level can sometimes be really frustrating. If you don't have the correct "power" title you can find it a long battle to lead by example. Much different than in the States.

I think you're pointing out an important caveat that I should have mentioned: the questions on risk taking were purely financial and had no social context. For example, "Choose between receiving a fixed sum of $400 or flipping a coin and receiving either $2,000 or $0 depending on the outcome." If the questions were made to have a social element -- e.g., "Choose between project A, with a sure return of $50,000 and which your boss weakly prefers, or project B, with a distribution of possible outcomes from $0 to $200,000" -- I think Chinese people would be even more adverse to the risky option than Americans.

 

In other words, perhaps Chinese culture and recent economic experiences are promoting financial risk seeking, but such orientations haven't really spread to social risk taking. In a way, this combination of financial risk seeking and social risk avoidance makes a lot of sense in a collectivist culture. Social ties can act as a "cushion" that softens the blow of a financial risk that turns out badly (this was the researchers' idea), but, on the other side of the coin, collectivism promotes social conservatism (i.e., the valuing of social norms).

 

In another interesting strand of this research, Americans and Chinese were asked to predict how people from each country would tend to answer the financial risk questions. Overall, people from both countries thought that the Americans would answer in a more risk seeking way than the Chinese, which is of course the opposite of what happened.

Edited March 5, 2010 by weiaijiayou (see edit history)

[weiaijiayou]

Maybe this is in their personal life. Having worked with the factory operators and engineers for over 3 years I would not say the Chinese are risk takers. If they can't CYA or push it up to the next level for a decision than nothing gets done.

 

Trying to encourage team building and working across departments and at the same co-worker level can sometimes be really frustrating. If you don't have the correct "power" title you can find it a long battle to lead by example. Much different than in the States.

But yes, more to the point of your post: I think you're totally right in that the financial "cushion" idea really only applies to personal financial risk taking.

[knloregon]

interesting discussion, but depending on the business interest you take to China from the west, my experience has been----there is little reason NOT to go to China if your interest is developing a new product, and you are a small entity.

 

When you compare sourcing in the US to China, its almost like night & day---and has been for many years. Source in the the US for a new product, and the company you approach is willing to take almost NO risk----for instance, R&D---up front costs, prototyping ---again, up front costs---basically, the US want profits without risk.

 

Got to China----exactly the opposite always yes for an answer, and willing to both R&D and prototyping---no charge---in exchange for a manufacturing contract. And keep in mind, the Chinese company has really no clue if you can sell the product they make, and in many cases, don't even need a financial guarantee. The entrepreneurs of China, in my experience are much more willing to hang out on a ledge than their US counterpart. In my experience, the problem is they may, or may not, be able to deliver on their promises, which makes the whole sourcing process so essential, and at the same time, so difficult.

[a2784]

interesting discussion, but depending on the business interest you take to China from the west, my experience has been----there is little reason NOT to go to China if your interest is developing a new product, and you are a small entity.

 

When you compare sourcing in the US to China, its almost like night & day---and has been for many years. Source in the the US for a new product, and the company you approach is willing to take almost NO risk----for instance, R&D---up front costs, prototyping ---again, up front costs---basically, the US want profits without risk.

 

Got to China----exactly the opposite always yes for an answer, and willing to both R&D and prototyping---no charge---in exchange for a manufacturing contract. And keep in mind, the Chinese company has really no clue if you can sell the product they make, and in many cases, don't even need a financial guarantee. The entrepreneurs of China, in my experience are much more willing to hang out on a ledge than their US counterpart. In my experience, the problem is they may, or may not, be able to deliver on their promises, which makes the whole sourcing process so essential, and at the same time, so difficult.

This I agree with. The environment to start new business and products is much easier in China that US for many reasons (cash available, risk aversion, thinking short-term only, lack of tort reform, etc.). I am always amazed at how easily my Chinese friends and family will jump from one business opportunity to another when things are not working out even if they know nothing about the new business they go into. Somehow they make a little money until something else comes along and a few of them had make a lot of money and are growing their business. In that respect that definitely take more risk than Americans.

 

So of it seems to be from a "it cant be any worse attitude" and from knowing their family will be there to pick them up if they fall until they are back on their feet. Just my observations and feelings.

 

However when they are in a stable job/organization then they will rarely push back and usually are "yes" men to the boss but then go away and do it their own way.

 

When you take about delivering on promises I see that too. You get a lot of promises but trying to keep the focus on the promise is difficult. A lot of times they meet the deadline but because they delayed and lost focus the quality is sub-par.

 

I remember one of our marketing and sales expats telling me that the sales team would go out of sales trip and come back excited because they had increased sales. When asked how much more product they had sold the salesman would reply oh no more product but they would like a swimming pool so I told them we could do it for them. It was tongue-in-cheek but I got his point and I have seen similar examples. They are easy to become interested in a new business but also easy to lose interest.

 

On the whole both cultures could learn from each other. For me I was sent here to start-up and optimize plants and teach the engineers international standards and efficient/safe plant operation. However I quickly realized there was a lot for me to learn and take back to the USA from here. I am sure back in the USA I will be saying things like "You got to be kidding me!! If I was back in China we could do that 10 times faster and 5 times cheaper without any bitching about needing to work overtime or on Sunday"