We the People

[Feathers268]

This was a thought I had a short time ago. Having business at the federal building here in Sac, I had the chance to show Jen both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution of the United States. As someone who will work toward naturalization, I know she will need to learn about it, plus, as a future voting citizen, a well informed citizen in the workings of our government, will make a better more informed vote.

Now, before this can get started, it would be important to keep present day politics out of it. This would be a discussion of the mechanics of the government along with the rights of the citizens.

So, for now what do you all think? Is this worth a try?

[Guest Pommey]

Sure, go for it

[warpedbored]

I think it's a good idea. It can help some our Chinese members learn about our system of government. Keep it on topic and keep partisan politics out of it.

[chengdu4me]

Heres a start...Whatever else these men were, they knew the price they might have to pay for doing this...and they were willing to sacrifice everything for these principles

 

 

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men

who signed the Declaration of Independence ?

 

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors,

and tortured before they died.

 

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

 

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;

another had two sons captured.

 

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or

hardships of the Revolutionary War.

 

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes,

and their sacred honor.

 

What kind of men were they?

 

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants,

Nine were farmers and large plantation owners;

men of means, well educated,

but they signed the Declaration of Independence

knowing full well that the penalty would be death if

they were captured.

 

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and

trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the

British Navy. He sold his home and properties to

pay his debts, and died in rags.

 

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British

that he was forced to move his family almost constantly.

He served in the Congress without pay, and his family

was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him,

and poverty was his reward.

 

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer,

Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

 

At the battle of Yorktown , Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that

the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson

home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General

George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,

and Nelson died bankrupt.

 

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.

The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

 

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.

Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill

were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests

and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his

children vanished.

 

 

And so it began...

[rogerluli]

In China one time a fellow was informing me about Mao and how he was the founder of their country...And then he said..."Just like George Washington was the founder of yours"...and I didn't say anything, I only smiled and thought about the many SIGNIFICANT differences...

 

We have been very blessed in America with the men who were our founding fathers...their deeds and the framework of government they gave us... Thanks for your great post Larry... B)

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Wars terrible invoice. These brave people who fought in the Revolutionary War paid a terrible price for their beleifs to have a seperate self governing nation.

[Feathers268]

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

hen in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ¡ª That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ¡ª That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. ¡ª Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

 

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

 

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

 

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

 

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

 

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.

 

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

 

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

 

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.

 

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

 

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

 

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

 

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

 

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

 

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

 

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

 

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

 

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

 

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

 

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

 

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

 

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

 

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

 

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.

 

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.

 

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

 

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.

 

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

 

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

 

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

 

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. ¡ª And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

 

¡ª John Hancock

 

New Hampshire:

Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton

 

Massachusetts:

John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge Gerry

 

Rhode Island:

Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery

 

Connecticut:

Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott

 

New York:

William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris

 

New Jersey:

Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, Abraham Clark

 

Pennsylvania:

Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross

 

Delaware:

Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean

 

Maryland:

Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton

 

Virginia:

George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton

 

North Carolina:

William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn

 

South Carolina:

Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur Middleton

 

Georgia:

Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton

It is no wonder why Americans tend to root for the underdog. In July of 1776 we separated from the British Empire, a global reaching super power of the day. King George didn't even take it seriously at first.

[chengdu4me]

One of the most interesting aspects of these United States is that is was started by some people that were considered nefarious, whiners, complainers, non-conformists, prisoners, parolees, and those given a choice, jail or Amerca...

 

Such humble beginnings can only be successfully enriched by one simple, common character trait. These were some damn stubborn people!

 

The very idea that anyone could think that they not be subject to a "ruling class" was just ridiculous! No one on this planet at that time didn't answer to some sort of ruler, be it King, Queen, or dictator. Why, the very idea! These people must be insane!

[dnoblett]

One of the most interesting aspects of these United States is that is was started by some people that were considered nefarious, whiners, complainers, non-conformists, prisoners, parolees, and those given a choice, jail or Amerca...

 

Such humble beginnings can only be successfully enriched by one simple, common character trait. These were some damn stubborn people!

 

The very idea that anyone could think that they not be subject to a "ruling class" was just ridiculous! No one on this planet at that time didn't answer to some sort of ruler, be it King, Queen, or dictator. Why, the very idea! These people must be insane!

Many who were for it were from Scotland, people who left Scotland to get away from British rule.

[warpedbored]

An interesting angle is we revere these people as heros and patriots. If England had won the war they would have gone down in history as traitors.

While I agree the fore fathers were great men they are also made larger than life. My favorite fore father is Thomas Jefferson who penned the declaration of independence. As great as he was he was also a slave owner who fathered children from one of his slaves.

[chengdu4me]

An interesting angle is we revere these people as heros and patriots. If England had won the war they would have gone down in history as traitors.

While I agree the fore fathers were great men they are also made larger than life. My favorite fore father is Thomas Jefferson who penned the declaration of independence. As great as he was he was also a slave owner who fathered children from one of his slaves.

 

 

I think they were probably all slave owners. They were all well-off men. As I said, they were not the "cream of the crop" kind of guys! But nonetheless, they hung it all out there to try to get what no one had ever succeeding in getting before.

 

The roots of the Declaration is a good place to start this. It gives a unique perspective into the mindset, the philosophies, the temperament of those that jump started this nation.

[Yuanyang]

Please refer to Snopes' take on this at http://www.snopes.com/history/american/pricepaid.asp

 

 

 

This doesn't take away from the courage it took to sign that document. For that time period it would be suicidal to mouth off that way to any monarch. What'd ya'think the Chinese Emporor of that period would've done had he had a province sent him such a document. Not a pretty thought is it?

 

Also see http://www.usconstitution.net/declarsigndata.html for more info.

 

Heres a start...Whatever else these men were, they knew the price they might have to pay for doing this...and they were willing to sacrifice everything for these principles

 

 

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men

who signed the Declaration of Independence ?

 

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors,

and tortured before they died.

 

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.

 

Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;

another had two sons captured.

 

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or

hardships of the Revolutionary War.

 

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes,

and their sacred honor.

 

What kind of men were they?

 

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.

Eleven were merchants,

Nine were farmers and large plantation owners;

men of means, well educated,

but they signed the Declaration of Independence

knowing full well that the penalty would be death if

they were captured.

 

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and

trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the

British Navy. He sold his home and properties to

pay his debts, and died in rags.

 

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British

that he was forced to move his family almost constantly.

He served in the Congress without pay, and his family

was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him,

and poverty was his reward.

 

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer,

Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

 

At the battle of Yorktown , Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that

the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson

home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General

George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,

and Nelson died bankrupt.

 

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.

The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

 

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.

Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill

were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests

and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his

children vanished.

 

 

And so it began...

Edited July 9, 2009 by Yuanyang (see edit history)

[Feathers268]

An interesting angle is we revere these people as heros and patriots. If England had won the war they would have gone down in history as traitors.

While I agree the fore fathers were great men they are also made larger than life. My favorite fore father is Thomas Jefferson who penned the declaration of independence. As great as he was he was also a slave owner who fathered children from one of his slaves.

 

 

I think they were probably all slave owners. They were all well-off men. As I said, they were not the "cream of the crop" kind of guys! But nonetheless, they hung it all out there to try to get what no one had ever succeeding in getting before.

 

The roots of the Declaration is a good place to start this. It gives a unique perspective into the mindset, the philosophies, the temperament of those that jump started this nation.

Actually, many were not. They debated whether slavery should be part of their new country and agreed to put the topic off for future debate. Without slavery, the southern colonies would not have gone along.

[warpedbored]

Both England and George Washington promised slaves that fought on their sides freedom. At the end of the war the US demanded that England return some of the slave owner's property to them. England refused.

[samsong]

The slaves fought for which ever side promised freedom. Freedom is what mattered most to them and some fought for the patriots while others fought for the crown, on the vows of freedom.