Legal Permanent Resident or US Citizen?

[frank1538]

I was chatting with a friend the other night, and he said that a legal permanent resident can still be deported, even for minor criminal violations.

 

This shocked the hell out of me. I know this topic has probably been discussed before, but what's the current thinking? Jingwen has indicated a preference for citizenship, and she realizes that this will terminate her Chinese citizenship.

 

I am more worried about the kids, particularly the son. I remember when I was 17, and it was very easy to get into trouble.

[MoonCarolCafe]

Yes, this is true. AFAIK it was true even before 9/11. Come here at the age of 2 months, live here for 30 years, do something bad.... Yup, you can be deported back to your country of origin.

[Bobby]

This was a question mine and I tossed around.. after what the INS and State department did about a year ago (albeit, this time targetted towards middle easterners), I think I'd like to avoid the hassel and have her become a citizen when she can. It'll also make travelling internationally easier and gives her a few more rights down the road.

[owenkrout]

Becoming a citizen is definately the best route. Changes in the way the political wind blows can always endanger the permanent residents with officials looking for excuses to deport them.

 

Naturalized citizens are legally the same as natural born citizens except for being able to be President. They can only lose their citizenship for immigration fraud.

[Dave G.]

I'd love for Tonyontherock to weigh in on this one....

 

Disclaimer: I am neither seeking or requesting legal advice

[keelec]

What about traveling?

 

1) To Europe, or other countries? Is there any difference between traveling as a US Citizen, or as a US Permanent Resident? I presume that it could be much easier as a US Citizen. I remember in the past, carrying a blue passport in Europe made everything go smoothly.

 

2) On the flipside, what about traveling back to the spouse's country of origin (Russia or China), and of course, returning to the USA after the trip. Potentially it would be easier (and cheaper) to go "home" if they retain their native nationality.

 

Hmmm, political climate does change rapidly. The Chinese or the Russians could suddenly loose favor in the USA, or visa versa, the USA could loose favor in those countries. It wouldn't be the first time that we have been at odds with those countries.

 

Let's just hope the Japanese internment in WWII never recurs. At that time, nobody was safe, not even 3rd or 4th generation Americans.

 

Anyway, I don't have any answers, just questions. And, we have a few years to think about it. For now, I am still waiting for the Visa.

 

----- Clifford ------

[warpedbored]

I vaguely recall some issues with your spouse collecting social security survivor benifits should something happen to you if she isnt a citizen. My main fear is post 911 anti immigrant legislation being be passed making it more difficult for her to become a citizen or be deported for some minor infraction.

[tonyontherock]

It is true. The old law was if a long term permanent resident commits a crime it would need to be a crime involving moral turpetude (sic). Any nacotics offense is a per se deportable offense. Thus, like NY, for some time the state concentrated on deporting all the people convicted of drug crimes. That proved to be a real harse thing for some. A drug conviction is quite different than what one would believe it to be. I had a client who was visiting the projects and there was a drug raid. He was in the stairwell where a lot of people do drugs. When the police came they grabbed him and found in the corner of the stairwell a couple of vials (could have been dropped by any one). He was a minor and had a bench trial and convicted. If he had been an adult, he would have been deported. For a minor, it is a finding and not conviction.

in 1996 when the more restrictive legislation came into place, the law was changed from crime involving moral turpidude to any one felony conviction or two misdeanors (exclusive of drunk driving).

That created a lot of problems for young adults who tend to spit on a cop ( a felony). For Chinese immigrants (exclusive of those working for the "social organizations" in China Town or the Tang), the most often arrest had been, in my experience, resisting arrest. Resisting arrest normally consist of arguing with a cop and refused to be handcuffed when the person did not do anything wrong (other than arguing), if any pushing is involved, it elevated to a felony and deportable. Another is the endangering of the wellfare of a child, including spanking the kid when the kid steals or smokes pot, or generally behave like a typical American teenager. Additionally, it is not clear if two convictions out of one act will result in deportion. For instance, if the wife was convicted of resisting arrest and interferring governmental administration out of the same act of refusing to be cuffed and creaming at another cop or cursing him/or for cuffing her husband in the argument. Legally, all these can result in deportation, but actual cases had been with more serious crimes.

Becoming a citizen is surely the right thing to do. It is painful to do so, esp. if you aspire to run in a democratic China one day. Some professional licenses will be lost by giving up the Chinese citizenship.

[mikem]

Becoming a citizen is definately the best route.  Changes in the way the political wind blows can always endanger the permanent residents with officials looking for excuses to deport them.

 

Naturalized citizens are legally the same as natural born citizens except for being able to be President.  They can only lose their citizenship for immigration fraud.

Except for ARNOLD they are tring to change the President issue as we speak..

[Charlotte]

TO BE OR NOT TO BE a US citizen– this is my personal experience

For those who don't know me, I came here in 1989 and have became a US citizen since 1996.

PROS:

1. You can travel to most countries in the world without a visa. (#1 benefit in my opinion)

2. You are not affected by the political swings on the immigrant issues, most of which are related to social welfare systems.

3. You can work federal gov’t jobs that require citizen status.

CONS:

1. You have to go through the visa application every time you want to visit China. It gets costly as US raises the visa fee, China reciprocated too. For a family like ours, I have to apply one for my husband, therefore, not really additional work, just additional $$$ needed.

So far, I can’t think of any other advantage or disadvantage between a citizen and a permanent resident. One thing I have to say is that ONLY in the US, this is almost treated equal – can’t imagine this can happen in any other country in the world. This is truly LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE, which is why we have seen many people willing to risk their lives to come to this country (remember the ones come in those containers?).

[Dave G.]

TO BE OR NOT TO BE a US citizen– this is my personal experience

Thanks for that....but I still have one question. How difficult was it to swear allegiance to the US (basically denying your country of origin)? I can't imagine how difficult that would be regardless of the circumstances.

[tonyontherock]

TO BE OR NOT TO BE a US citizen– this is my personal experience

Thanks for that....but I still have one question. How difficult was it to swear allegiance to the US (basically denying your country of origin)? I can't imagine how difficult that would be regardless of the circumstances.

Similar here. I also came in 1989 and became a citizen in 2000. Well, it was not that easy for me, because other than the visa fees, I had to give up my license in China. On the other hand, George Bush was running for presidency. It was a hard decision, which I postponed for quite a couple of years.

On the other hand, different immigrants with different backgrounds have different reactions. I know a Vietnamese guy who framed and laminated his citizenship papers and put it right next to his shrine for his ancestors. He came on a boat and lost everything he had, including the lives of his close relatives.

For those who left in 1989, under the watchful eyes of People's Liberation Army and the menancing barrels of those submachine guns, the emotion was much mixed. It was like loving a mother that is a drunk and a whore, who tried to sell her daughter to the botheral. Yet she was still the mother.

For those who look at only the practical side of matters. It was easy. U.S. citizenship gives a lot more than Chinese citizenship in terms of international protection.

[Mick]

TO BE OR NOT TO BE a US citizen– this is my personal experience

For those who don't know me, I came here in 1989 and have became a US citizen since 1996.

PROS: 

1. You can travel to most countries in the world without a visa. (#1 benefit in my opinion)

2. You are not affected by the political swings on the immigrant issues, most of which are related to social welfare systems.

3. You can work federal gov’t jobs that require citizen status.

CONS: 

1. You have to go through the visa application every time you want to visit China.  It gets costly as US raises the visa fee, China reciprocated too. For a family like ours, I have to apply one for my husband, therefore, not really additional work, just additional $$$ needed. 

So far, I can’t think of any other advantage or disadvantage between a citizen and a permanent resident.  One thing I have to say is that ONLY in the US, this is almost treated equal – can’t imagine this can happen in any other country in the world.  This is truly LAND OF THE FREE AND HOME OF THE BRAVE, which is why we have seen many people willing to risk their lives to come to this country  (remember the ones come in those containers?).

Thanks for posting this insightful perspective Charlotte. It is really good to hear from you again. Li sends her regards.

[Guest Se_Lang]

I asked my MM this question last night, she said this " in china have 1 saying marry to chicken so follow chicken marry to dog so follow dog", I asked "so which am I a chicken or dog" her response "pig"

[Guest sanfranciscojoe]

poor tony the rock, what is he going to do when Bush is re-elected? If he understood what it means to be an American, he would know that we do not pick and choose our feeling for this country by which party is in the White House. I was loyal even when Clinton was in the House. I will NOT, REPEAT NOT, remain quiet whn the President of the United States of America is run down on this board.

I just returned from 2 weeks in China. I would not live there if I was the President!

return tickets to China are readily available Tony. Ever wonder why no one is clammoring to go to China?