1931.9.18

[Guest enight]

...I agree and support all People's views except that 'fart'

 

... I do my best don't buy Japanese products...

[Guest blsqueaky]

I remember when I was in GZ this past may, I was able to watch a documentary on this same subject, and luckily it even had english sub-titles so that I could follow along. I will admit that when in High School, and was some sort of a history buff, but this was something that I was not taught in world history. I will say that it made me wake up some.

 

I do remember something in history tho, and that when Japan was invading, the nice people in Shanghai hid our marines that where there, and got them out safely.

 

I just guess my 2 cents, since I am also cheap, I guess that is why I have the nick that I do.

[Eric&Yuhui]

I just guess my 2 cents, since I am also cheap, I guess that is why I have the nick that I do.

Guess you haven't checked the exchange rate for Turkish Lira ( TRL ) lately....

Value barely above Don's 2 Jiao's

 

I'm as cheap as you and him....

[Guest blsqueaky]

Eric, I do not think that you are as cheap as me. I hate to part with a dime unless I can justify it.

 

Have to save, plane tickets are getting expensive again to fly over that large ocean. Just found out yesterday that my normal flight in the last 2 weeks has gone up 30%, and this is the flight from (*%^

[Eric&Yuhui]

Eric, I do not think that you are as cheap as me. I hate to part with a dime unless I can justify it.     

 

Have to save, plane tickets are getting expensive again to fly over that large ocean. Just found out yesterday that my normal flight in the last 2 weeks has gone up 30%, and this is the flight from (*%^    

You are right..

I only travel First Class...

Cargo Class... Near the Doggie bay.... Pressurized AND heated...

 

That reminds me of that recent idiot taking a NY-TX flight in a crate..

Fedex me Scotty !!

[Dave G.]

For what it's worth......

 

My brother-in-law is just about to publish a book. It's called "The Forgotten Soldier" written by Lee Benson. It's the account of a US soldier who got caught up in the Bataan Death March in the Philippines. I have known many Japanese in the course of my life. They are just as sweet as any other culture. But, in WWII, their government was just as ruthless as the Nazis, Iraq, Napoleon, and the rest of them. Yes...it's time to pay the piper, just as Germany had to pay or the people in Bosnia. You can't commit genocide without culpability. Yes...Japan will pay retribution. Sins of the father, as it were.

 

Do you all know what I really hate??? Paying for our fathers' sins. I am a White guy. We've made many mistakes in the history of mankind. It's coming back to haunt us. And, I wasn't even there at the time. So be it. Let's get the reparations paid and move on. It's time for peace.

 

Dave

[Bob & Minglian]

Hello gentlemen

 

Yeah, everybody know about the rape of nanking.

 

But, that is old history, as with the holocaust

 

If you still resent it after all these years, then boycott japanese products. Can you afford not to enjoy the best and coolest gadgets coming off Japan?

 

my two cents

First, there are both male and female members or guests on this website.

 

Second, NO, everybody is not aware of the atrocities committed by the Japanese against the Chinese during those 15 or so years ending in 1945. Many Westerners in fact have never heard of Nanking! Or Unit 731.

 

I agree with Patrick in that there was an exchange of documention for information. The time to have addressed this issue, knowing very well what happened in China, was then. That did not happen. Yet, I also agree with Dave in that we need to strive for peace even if Japan does not come forward and acknowledge, apologize, and atone for its atrocities. To me, to punish the Japanese citizenry of today for what happened generations earlier, does not lend itself to healing and moving forward. Sometimes, I think, we just need to do all we can to forgive those unimaginable, unforgiveable sins even if those who committed the atrocities against us are unwilling to take ownership. Yes, to ever forget is not wise, but to forgive after 60 or 70 years, as difficult as it may seem, well, maybe its time.

[skibum]

If in Nanjing you should visit the Rape of Nanking museum there. It covers it very well with much info about the Germans who aided the Chinese and prevented many more deaths.

If you read Japanese history you will see that not so many years before this they were treating their own people in the same way. Lopping off heads was not uncommon. Mistreatment of women is still common.

But also feel sorry for all the people who were mistreated by them including the American flyers who had the misfortune of bailing out over Japan and being cut open for experiments while they were still alive and awake. These experiments were carried on at a hospital in Kitakyushu.

However, I have always felt that the biggest tragedy is the harm that the Chinese have done to themselves in all the civil wars throughout the centuries. Hopefully that is in the past.

[Dave G.]

It's no wonder China has evolved the way it has. No, I don't agree with many of its policies and practices....but that's the government. The people today are still proud of China but, from my experience, have separated themselves from the bureaucratic stuff. JM's family all expressed feelings of centuries of being invaded and ripped off. The people had given up after so much abuse. That's where Mao Tse Tung stepped in. As I was taught, using only a stick and beating in on the rail of a balcony, she shouted "Wake Up Chinese....Wake Up!" He basically made the Chinese a promise. Work and produce. In return, he'd never let another country do them harm. Hence, the mighty military he created. The people were slowly able to thrive again. As we've all seen, the Chinese are still working on it.

 

I spoke to JM this morning and told her the US is upset with China. She was worried at first. I tried to explain using our newly created language (JingMeishese) about China's artificially keeping the RMB undervalued, giving them unfair advantage in the global market. She asked, "Is that good for China?" I said, "Very." She said, "GOOD!" Yes....a very proud people.

 

As was noted by Frank, they won't forget the past because they don't want to repeat it...even if they have to be sneeky. http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/d/spock.gif

[SBS]

Every country's govenment will stay in their people's side and make their policies and practices for their own country. I support the decision which is made by Chinese govenment. China still need few years to get strong enough and then their market can be more opened and RMB will rise one day. Our own govenment is the only govenment who will really care and help chinese people in this world. So does each country's govenment. So we should understand each other's policies better.

there is a news about how China govenment wanted to use Japanese technology to build their fast train from Beijin to Shanghai. But a lot chinese people disagree it and make goverment rethink about it and cancled the meeting to japanese officers. I understand the reason why chinese acted so strong at this subjuct and it will be more proud if Chinese can build it by themselves.

I can't agree that the best way to do is forgetting your past or forget your history. We can never be better if we dont have lessons from our past and our old generation. If the new japanese generations can not accept this part of history then how they will treat China and other Asia coutries better and respect others more?

[Guest enight]

yeah!... I support and agree with SBS again!

[Guest sanfranciscojoe]

it amazes me that some speak of "THE holocaust" in Europe, as if it were the only one. No one ever mentions the wholsale slaughter and starvation of The Chinese at the hands of Japan. Estimates are that as many as 3 times as many Chinese died as died in German camps. Why isnt that THE holocaust?

[Dave G.]

SBS and Enight make my point beautifully. Chinese are very proud of their country and traditions. Just as we in America are. Even when this country screws up (aren't we seeing a lot of that lately?), we still maintain our love of country. SBS and Enight can justify the RMB thing and it makes sense to them. The flip side to it all is that China is taking unfair advantage. After all, it was America who pushed for China to enter the WTO against many protests. As we say here, don't look a gift horse in the mouth. That means appreciate [respect] what you are given.

 

So...SBS & Enight. Please don't take my comments personally. If anything, I did my best to recognize both countries makes mistakes. Yet somehow, those mistakes are understood/defended by its citizens.

[Guest enight]

So...SBS & Enight.  Please don't take my comments personally.  If anything, I did my best to recognize both countries makes mistakes.

don't worry Dave!... of course I wouldn't take your comments personaly!...

 

China is my homeland, I would do whatever to support her (even she treats people very badly in some points)

[Dave G.]

So...SBS & Enight.  Please don't take my comments personally.  If anything, I did my best to recognize both countries makes mistakes.

don't worry Dave!... of course I wouldn't take your comments personaly!...

 

China is my homeland, I would do whatever to support her (even she treats people very badly in some points)

Phew...glad I didn't offend.http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/_950/boxing.gif

 

Our little chat reminds me of a story. After JM and I got engaged, her brother asked her, "Who would you support if China and America went to war?" We laughed because it's not likely. But it raised some interesting issues.

 

Do you ever feel torn between the differences in the two countries? Sometimes we work collectively together; sometimes we're competitors. Nothing wrong with competition, but sometimes it goes beyond finances. Politically beliefs, moral stances, civil rights issues, etc. When there are conflicting ideas, do you mean literally what you say? You'd do whatever to support her? I bet I could come up with scenarios where you wouldn't support China. Since I don't want to get obnoxious about it, I won't pose them to you.http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/g/blobfir.gif