usaRichard Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I have actually read through this thread, and I know that many of you have been here much longer than me, and know many of the members personalities through their posts and perhaps some have even met outside the CFL walls. I believe some very relevant points were made and it reminds me that this sort of "discussion" could have very well happen outside the virtual world of CFL. Which is another way of saying we are all just people and not much changes whether we're behind a keyboard in America or face to face in another country. And it also brings to mind an old saying "a hit dog will holler" just had to throw that in there. Richard Link to comment
izus Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing. thats why i wrote my the second post right after i posted the opening thread... Different people have different perspectives on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all. The full quote: maybe CANDLE is the outlet for them to complain about life and how miserable they are. Different people have different perspective on life and I suppose CANDLE works for us all. Thanks Randy for reminding us what Bill actually wrote rather than what he now wishes he had written... ok Randy and Roger... he said that i said that i said that he said.... come on are we still in 5th grade? Link to comment
Li & John Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Link to comment
Randy W Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 ok Randy and Roger... he said that i said that i said that he said.... come on are we still in 5th grade? Whatever grade it is where we learn that one can see the word "gas" and not think of "farts" Move along, guy! Link to comment
IllinoisDave Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Instead of just posting a flippant personal attack why don't you search around for some examples of "China bashing" to try and back up your view and then we can have a discussion as to whether it's actually bashing or just people expressing criticisms and pointing out China's flaws as Rog suggests. Or would that be too much curiosity for your planet? Link to comment
georgeandli Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Easy humanoids. We all have to live here. Link to comment
shaffej7070 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Depends how one defines "China Bashing." I personally don't see it from the threads I've read, unless I'm missing something. Besides, why would anyone paint China in a negative light whose loved one is representative of that country, unless of course, you're a victim of visa fraud. BTW,Roger doesn't have to defend himself with the above remark, after all, The MK is his baby. Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. If Bill's post were simply about those who point out China's flaws, it wouldn't take the turns it does. It's quite intersting to see how defensive a few members have become. In so doing, they draw more attention to their own flaws. That's just a fact of life and that will never change. I've not seen a single member make posts suggesting that either China or the US were some sort of utopian, polyanna place. On the other hand, I've seen a few members, me included post out thoughts and feelings about it and watch a thread be reduced to a "gotcha" level. No one gives a crap about that accept a handful of people that have nothing better to do. Yes, to some it is a joke; to others, discussing life in China, its culture, and its people is a way to strengthen our families and relationships. To most, that is not a joke. Never was, and never will be. Link to comment
IllinoisDave Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 And then there are those who consider the way they present their views to be the only "serious" way to discuss China and all things Chinese. Link to comment
Guest ShaQuaNew Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 And then there are those who consider the way they present their views to be the only "serious" way to discuss China and all things Chinese. Dave, I'm all for any discussion you want to bring forth about China. This thread is probably not the best place to do it as it was izus who originally opened it. He took the time to write his thoughts and feelings. It's clear you and a few others disagree with him. Nothing wrong with that, not a thing. Invoking discussion is healthy, but it takes effort to keep things civil. I can relate completely with what izus has to say, as I can with what you say here. I honestly consider a reasonable discourse about China a good thing for all of us. From my perspective, there are wonderful things happening in China. That is in the face of all the challenges facing this country as it is experiencing growing pains. I've not seen anyone disagree that China has dirty streets and air, unsafe water to drink, government corruption, and so on. Most everyone has been here at least once and personally witnessed it. Bill (izus) is a good human being. He's a good husband to his wife. He loves and cares about her and her homeland. There are a lot of negative issues that one can bring forth about China; and if that is what you and others enjoy discussing, so be it. Please exercise restraint however when someone see an endless sea of threads presenting China in a negative light. No; I'm not talking about "China bashing." That phrase is much too harsh for what I see happening. What I mean a remarkable lack of something good to say about the country. I've seen several posts that discuss the cleaner air and streets now happening in Beijing. It's great to see. But for some reason, there are many that don't think it will last. Will it? I believe it will because I see the passion of the people who are responsible for making it this clean right now. Link to comment
Joanne Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 (edited) This thread demonstrates that how we CFLers enjoy debates. I usually hold a positive view about China, partly because I might have lived a pampered life (in my own view, not necessarily how my old pals see it), I didn't remember much sufferings, or I tend to forget sufferings easily. I remember how materially deficient we were in our childhood, such as only two or three sets of clothings for a season, rationed supply of food, etc. However, I don't think those gave me much bad memories. I understand my people better, so that certain peculiar, or even impolite behaviors in your eyes could be common and carries no bad feelings or intent. As for the government, it is just made up with a group of Chinese people, carries the baggages of the Chinese culture. - let me sidetrack a little, just to give you an example:I am very attentive to my daughter's needs (and my husband's need before, but he trained me not to get so "nervous"). I do things for her before she even tells. I cann't help it. I just knows what she wants and needs and I instantly do it for her. However, my husband disapproves this of my behavior. He thinks that I must let daughter to express explicitly and askes politely before I respond. This is the way he treated our daughter. Often times he would demand that she does it herself because she is capable of doing it. Who is right, who is wrong? I think I am wrong because we are now in America, and particularly at this time, in my parents-in-laws home which hubby grew up with. However, this is exactly what I don't like of my husband. I would rather that he observes my need and help than I ask for help. Often times, such things are so small, there is really no point of asking someone else to do it, but observing and doing it for your spouse gives good feeling for both. Day in and day out, I become very independent, however this independence may not be all good. I don't really want my daughter to become so "independent". - sorry for the side track. What I wanted to say is that the way we view the world is influenced by our experience, personality, our upbringing and the people around us. I feel most of the (CFL) Americans' view of China is also somewhat influenced by their Chinese spouse (although the spouse doesn't necessarily hold the same view). If the Chinese spouse had a hard life in China, if she/he doesn't know how to maintain good relationships with the friends, most of them Chinese, it is likely their American partner would hold a negative view of China (I still remembers the title of one CFL thread: why my wife is cheated by all those Chinese?) I am not saying China is all good. I just didn't like to discuss all the bad things, particularly if the discussion doesn't provide any value. For example, if your sister has an ugly birthmark on her face, would you feel comfortable that a friend come to you and point out that fact to you? Does your friend need to prove to you that he/she is not blind? However, if you give advice to friends, such as, when in China, don't drink tab water; guard your wallet at all times; wash your hand delegently before handling food and when get home, etc, there are some value there. Then, some things western media were saying about China and most Americans buy are just absurd to us who grew up in China. That's when most Chinese would jump out and shout "cann't be true". Above are just some random thoughts after reading Bill's great post and the thread. Edited July 27, 2008 by Joanne (see edit history) Link to comment
Li & John Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Instead of just posting a flippant personal attack why don't you search around for some examples of "China bashing" to try and back up your view and then we can have a discussion as to whether it's actually bashing or just people expressing criticisms and pointing out China's flaws as Rog suggests. Or would that be too much curiosity for your planet?Here we go again!!! I have left you alone to say whatever Leftsided veiw you want to say. Now you are PERSONALLY attacking me again. HEY DON, you don't see this!!! Why don't you go and get a real life instead of hiding behind your computer for 23 hours a day on Candle! Link to comment
rogerluli Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Instead of just posting a flippant personal attack why don't you search around for some examples of "China bashing" to try and back up your view and then we can have a discussion as to whether it's actually bashing or just people expressing criticisms and pointing out China's flaws as Rog suggests. Or would that be too much curiosity for your planet?Here we go again!!! I have left you alone to say whatever Leftsided veiw you want to say. Now you are PERSONALLY attacking me again. HEY DON, you don't see this!!! Why don't you go and get a real life instead of hiding behind your computer for 23 hours a day on Candle! I would like nothing better than to lock this thread but I know that wouldn't be what Don wants so please continue with the mud-slinging contest... Link to comment
Guest lilac6451 Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Just because someone posts a view,whether fact or opinion, that doesn't coincide with yours doesn't make it China bashing. Just because it's something that you don't particularly want to hear or believe doesn't make it China bashing. Posting negative things about China should be totally different from slandering, or attacking China. But unfortunatelly, some people here do say a lot of things which are either they got from their short term stay in China or just from their bias view. You just cant take a tree for forest. That is China bashing. I'm a realist. I prefer to deal in facts and reality rather than fiction and fantasy. By the way, you are not a realist. A realist is one who is either a painter or writer. You are a pragmatist. Link to comment
rogerluli Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I've never read anything here that I thought was "China bashing"...People do come here to express criticisms and point out China's flaws...And that is one of the reasons we are here and that is the way it is going to stay... Is this a joke? What planet are you from? Curious minds want to know. Depends how one defines "China Bashing." I personally don't see it from the threads I've read, unless I'm missing something. Besides, why would anyone paint China in a negative light whose loved one is representative of that country, unless of course, you're a victim of visa fraud. BTW,Roger doesn't have to defend himself with the above remark, after all, The MK is his baby. Thanks Jimi...Do you know what really gets my GOAT about this thingie??? Here I've started a zillion threads on this forum about ACTUAL TOPICS OF INTEREST ABOUT CHINA... posts with real INFORMATION... and many of these threads die a quick death because evidently not many people here actually care about...LEARNING SOMETHING ABOUT CHINA...It pains me to have to say it but I think too many members "love" for China is a kilometer wide and 0.001 mm deep...Or on the other hand perhaps they already know everything there is to know about China and don't need to learn any more... In that case pardonez moi... Link to comment
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