China does not see itself as a Super Power

[SheLikesME?]

Fairbanks said something like, the Chinese defeat invaders by absorbing them into the nation and making them Chinese. ...or something like that.

I began thinking this of my wife the other day. I have begun telling her how I am NOT Chinese. For all the good that does me.

 

 

Dennis your right. I have been there and seen what they are doing. They keep it up and they will be quite the supplier of good arms.

[Dennis143]

 

I just sold pop bottles today to the recycler and made 23 rmb. Went to town right away to grab more pop to make more recyclables for next time

Way to go!! You'll be rich in short order!

[david_dawei]

A John Fairbanks book I read on China many years ago gave me the impression that the Chinese have never seen themselves as conquerors. Fairbanks said something like, the Chinese defeat invaders by absorbing them into the nation and making them Chinese. ...or something like that.

 

Deng's policy of "when it comes to foreign policies, China is to participate, not to lead, not to have enemies" probably grew out of the sort of ancient wisdom reported by Fairbanks.

I think defeating invaders by osmosis is maybe a bit of revisionist history...

 

The mongol rule, despite their military strength could not enforce political or social stablity.. too much ethic division was evident and lead to the eventual short rule.

 

The manchu faired better (and much longer rule of around 270 years) since they left alot of government rules in place (including the confucian classic entry exams)... although they changed the dress of the chinese (men sported the manchu pigtail), the ladies were to wear the QiPao, which is really of Manchu origin. They also opened the door to the west and allowed christianity in, only to have the church act too self-righteous and got itself banned from the land...

[IllinoisDave]

They also opened the door to the west and allowed christianity in, only to have the church act too self-righteous and got itself banned from the land...

[Tony_onrock]

A John Fairbanks book I read on China many years ago gave me the impression that the Chinese have never seen themselves as conquerors. Fairbanks said something like, the Chinese defeat invaders by absorbing them into the nation and making them Chinese. ...or something like that.

 

Deng's policy of "when it comes to foreign policies, China is to participate, not to lead, not to have enemies" probably grew out of the sort of ancient wisdom reported by Fairbanks.

 

Just look back in history. The difference between Deng He and Columbus. Deng went around to Africa and along south east asia with presents and brougt back presents. He did not follow up with army to conquer those places. Even with Tibet and Vietnam, as well as a large part of Korea that China invaded, China was content with getting tributes from those countries and not real occupation. The tributes are more symbolic than real. As far as foreign policy is concerned Chinese have traditionally been rather passive even at the height of its power in ancient time

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

China has been a Super Power many times throughtout it long history.

If China would have been an Aggressive force during the time of Deng He with over 400 huge sailing ships Chinese would have been the International Language today.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

China has been a Super Power many times throughtout it long history.

If China would have been an Aggressive force during the time of Deng He with over 400 huge sailing ships Chinese would have been the International Language today.

 

China is a permanent member of the UN security council. That could be one definition of the term "superpower".

[SmilingAsia]

When the majority of our farmers and residents in the old section of the cities are not poor any more, when our people in manufacturing don't have to work their ass off like 31 days a month and 10 hours a day for "Made in China", when our women stopped asking you guys for a few hundred $$ a month, when the hookers on the streets are as fewer as in Japan, we'll ask ourselves "Are we a superpower anyway?"

 

It will take decades.

[Guest Mike and Lily]

When the majority of our farmers and residents in the old section of the cities are not poor any more, when our people in manufacturing don't have to work their ass off like 31 days a month and 10 hours a day for "Made in China", when our women stopped asking you guys for a few hundred $$ a month, when the hookers on the streets are as fewer as in Japan, we'll ask ourselves "Are we a superpower anyway?"

 

It will take decades.

 

Making China "Americanized", will be a sure path to failure as a superpower. As soon as they have unions more powerful than the companies that produce products, and as soon as they have entitlement programs (like social security) that suck up wages and corporate profits at the expense of productivity, the sooner that China will be on the path to mediocrity.

 

China's big advantage is it's productivity, as well as the education of it's youth. China has no debt, massive trade surplusses and so much cash, it can't find enough places to invest it. Still, China is investing heavily in it's infrastructure. But social engineering to make everyone equal is a sure path to failure. Someday, Chinese products will be the best in the world, then everyone will realize that China is the greatest superpower, not when they have more people getting handouts from the government.

[IllinoisDave]

When the majority of our farmers and residents in the old section of the cities are not poor any more, when our people in manufacturing don't have to work their ass off like 31 days a month and 10 hours a day for "Made in China", when our women stopped asking you guys for a few hundred $$ a month, when the hookers on the streets are as fewer as in Japan, we'll ask ourselves "Are we a superpower anyway?"

 

It will take decades.

 

Making China "Americanized", will be a sure path to failure as a superpower. As soon as they have unions more powerful than the companies that produce products, and as soon as they have entitlement programs (like social security) that suck up wages and corporate profits at the expense of productivity, the sooner that China will be on the path to mediocrity.

 

China's big advantage is it's productivity, as well as the education of it's youth. China has no debt, massive trade surplusses and so much cash, it can't find enough places to invest it. Still, China is investing heavily in it's infrastructure. But social engineering to make everyone equal is a sure path to failure. Someday, Chinese products will be the best in the world, then everyone will realize that China is the greatest superpower, not when they have more people getting handouts from the government.

Yeah, screw those workers! Who do they think they are demanding to make livable wages under safe working conditions. Corporate profits are all that's important. This world, and especially China, needs more CEOs making 10 million dollars a year and getting multi-million dollar golden parachutes when they've sucked all the money they can out of the company.

 

And to hell with the less-fortunate while we're at it. I've got mine, let 'em find they're own crumbs and cardboard box to live in. F**k 'em all!

[Jeikun]

When the majority of our farmers and residents in the old section of the cities are not poor any more, when our people in manufacturing don't have to work their ass off like 31 days a month and 10 hours a day for "Made in China", when our women stopped asking you guys for a few hundred $$ a month, when the hookers on the streets are as fewer as in Japan, we'll ask ourselves "Are we a superpower anyway?"

 

It will take decades.

 

Making China "Americanized", will be a sure path to failure as a superpower. As soon as they have unions more powerful than the companies that produce products, and as soon as they have entitlement programs (like social security) that suck up wages and corporate profits at the expense of productivity, the sooner that China will be on the path to mediocrity.

 

China's big advantage is it's productivity, as well as the education of it's youth. China has no debt, massive trade surplusses and so much cash, it can't find enough places to invest it. Still, China is investing heavily in it's infrastructure. But social engineering to make everyone equal is a sure path to failure. Someday, Chinese products will be the best in the world, then everyone will realize that China is the greatest superpower, not when they have more people getting handouts from the government.

 

 

Let's not forget that the most efficient and productive form of government is quite possibly the dictatorship. So why don't we all found fascist countries? Why aren't people happy to live in Dictatorships?

 

There is more to life than how rich and/or sucessful your country may be. Standard of living is equally important. Comparing the idea of workers rights, unions, etc to being "Americanized" is completely flawed. China has easily 3 times the people living in poverty as it does in the "middle class".

 

Many people here compare China to the US during the 40's or 50's when we weren't lazy, had family values, and were growing as a country... aaah the good old days.... This is absolutely a false image and thinking of China this way only insures that you will NEVER understand it.

 

Eunice's comments were not about massive social programs anyway, they were about the idea that when the success of China is more widespread, when the "dream" is accessible to anyone who just wants to work hard and applies themselves, then they will have true wealth.

 

As it is now, China's wealth is largely in the hands of elites and government and a small middle class. The peasants are still pushing around the same piles of crap they have been for thousands of years.

 

In China if you are born a farmer, that's pretty much it for you. You can move to a city and become an underpaid and exploited laborer, or maybe a hooker if you're a woman. What we think of as "poor and underprivelidged" in the US is a big joke really.

 

I do agree with you somewhat that social engineering can be a dangerous path, however. But the level of power that workers have in China right now is so dismal, some amount of enpowerment would be a far cry from causing China's economy to go T.U.

 

I should add my opinion is largely uneducated I'm no economist or expert of any kind. I just feel like many people fail to see just how bad many people in China have it, and just how unfairly that wealth is distributed, and how impossible it is for them to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" in China's current system.

[IllinoisDave]

Let's not forget that the most efficient and productive form of government is quite possibly the dictatorship. So why don't we all found fascist countries? Why aren't people happy to live in Dictatorships?

 

There is more to life than how rich and/or sucessful your country may be. Standard of living is equally important. Comparing the idea of workers rights, unions, etc to being "Americanized" is completely flawed. China has easily 3 times the people living in poverty as it does in the "middle class".

 

Many people here compare China to the US during the 40's or 50's when we weren't lazy, had family values, and were growing as a country... aaah the good old days.... This is absolutely a false image and thinking of China this way only insures that you will NEVER understand it.

 

Eunice's comments were not about massive social programs anyway, they were about the idea that when the success of China is more widespread, when the "dream" is accessible to anyone who just wants to work hard and applies themselves, then they will have true wealth.

 

As it is now, China's wealth is largely in the hands of elites and government and a small middle class. The peasants are still pushing around the same piles of crap they have been for thousands of years.

 

In China if you are born a farmer, that's pretty much it for you. You can move to a city and become an underpaid and exploited laborer, or maybe a hooker if you're a woman. What we think of as "poor and underprivelidged" in the US is a big joke really.

 

I do agree with you somewhat that social engineering can be a dangerous path, however. But the level of power that workers have in China right now is so dismal, some amount of enpowerment would be a far cry from causing China's economy to go T.U.

 

I should add my opinion is largely uneducated I'm no economist or expert of any kind. I just feel like many people fail to see just how bad many people in China have it, and just how unfairly that wealth is distributed, and how impossible it is for them to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" in China's current system.

Twice in one day?

[Randy W]

 

Let's not forget that the most efficient and productive form of government is quite possibly the dictatorship. So why don't we all found fascist countries? Why aren't people happy to live in Dictatorships?

 

 

Actually, we should all go to the Home Despot and buy everything we need to establish our own backyard dictatorships.

[IllinoisDave]

Actually, we should all go to the Home Despot and buy everything we need to establish our own backyard dictatorships. B)

Why is Ameriken posting under Randy's avatar?

[Guest Rob & Jin]

When the majority of our farmers and residents in the old section of the cities are not poor any more, when our people in manufacturing don't have to work their ass off like 31 days a month and 10 hours a day for "Made in China", when our women stopped asking you guys for a few hundred $$ a month, when the hookers on the streets are as fewer as in Japan, we'll ask ourselves "Are we a superpower anyway?"

 

It will take decades.

 

 

B)