Blogging from Baoding

[david_dawei]

Traveler¡¯s Observation #3:

 

I¡¯ll call this the Chinese art of declining an offer and the USCs persistence needed to force an offer. The former is an ethic I see whereby a Chinese will downplay a gift or not accept an offer of help; the latter as the way in which you can force that offer of help.

 

Many have shared the idea that some Chinese will not open a given gift and more likely (particularly if older) to toss it aside as if it were meaningless¡­. I¡¯ve seen this many times. I¡¯m simply going to describe my take on this, when an gift or offer is tossed aside. The idea is that if they showed some acceptance for the gift it may betray they needed or wanted that, which in turn would put some pressure on the giver as if they needed to give you something you need. I¡¯ve felt that what they would like to convey is that they have no need (for something) and therefore you have no need (to give something). This is also extend to offers of help which they will downplay as unnecessary or unneeded.

 

For gift giving, there is nothing to overcome or persist in¡­ let them toss it aside or let another family member deal with any cultural sensitivity (ie: someone in the family may decide to open it on their behalf and show it to them). For help that you want to offer but are meet with a decline, you must persist. I¡¯ve heard someone say you must repeat it at least three times; I¡¯ll say you must repeat it till they give in or you simply give up.

 

I often use this to my advantage at certain times. If I don¡¯t really want to do something but feel it should be offered, I¡¯ll offer something but I realize the three strike game; so if they say ¡°no¡± twice, I¡¯ll stop. If I know the help is needed, then I¡¯ll persist or simply if applicable, just ¡°do¡± it. Here is a very simple and small example that occurred yesterday: My wife¡¯s sister is preparing for a visa process through Canada. I had heard that in our last visit 1.5 years ago, she was a little upset that I never offered to help teach her some English (that I should of read her mind on this is another post!). Knowing this and knowing how persistent she is to declining offers I knew I would have to push hard with an offer to help¡­ so I had already bought a large white board for writing and teaching (ie: a ¡°do¡± which helps support my eventual push and offer). Yesterday, I said to her that we should study English and she motioned for me to rest¡­ and it became a kind of dance of word exchanges¡­ I pressed more and more forceful as if to not take ¡®no¡¯ for any answer and finally she jumped up and said, ¡°yes teacher¡± and ran excitedly off to go get her study book.

[Randy W]

You can tell an Easterner from a Westerner in this respect - an Easterner will squat with their feet completely flat, and their knees virtually at a 180 degree angle. The Westerner will squat on the balls of their feet, leaning slightly forward to keep their balance. The Easterner's balance is maintained by the flatness of their feet, and that the center of gravity is above the feet.

Just a bit confused, but isn't a 180 degree angle a straight line?

take the starting position... standing straight upward... take the squating position... virtually 180 degrees of standing... so your right, the squat is a straight [angle] line from the standing.

 

 

Yes - your knee bends through 180 degrees to the squatting position, but to keep smitty happy we might call that a 180 degree bend, instead of 180 degree angle http://redtailboa.net/forums/images/smilies/icon_scholar.gif

[david_dawei]

Traveler's Tip

One thing is for sure about chinese... ask them if they drink and they will often say no... and then sit down with them and find out they can drink a bottle or two without help... this includes the women. Don't believe anyone who says they don't drink; drinking is a social custom and not a personal issue.

 

In Baoding, drinking is serious fun. On any given lunch, a restaurant is seating groups of people who are about to be very drunk within the hour. I've been drunk more during lunch time than dinner time during all my stay in this city. My first taste this visit was at lunch; the group of guys behind us were drunk and continuing... I did what one usually should not do, as far as 'face' goes; I started drinking but I stopped while still having alcohol in glass... this is considered 'bad manners'.... better manners would be to drink to excess and throw up later. Since I have not drinking this jet fuel for 1.5 years, my first taste is mostly a gag like reaction followed by a small spirt dribbling down my lips from me fighting the up-chuck. But after two glasses, I felt too dizzy and decided to throw in the towel, particularly since I knew how my wife felt about such social behaviors like throwing up for 2 hours in the bathroom and her cleaning it up and dragging me around the room.

 

That was then... today was now. I asked my wife to call my drinking buddy (same as the other day) and invite him to dinner tonight.. .good thing was that my wife had a massage so we went to the restaurant without her... He asked, "hu jiu" for which I obviously agreed... "hu jiu".

 

After just one glass, I knew I was "all in"... I decided at that moment that I would see the bottle through with him; this meant probably 8 glasses tonight. The way to pace yourself, if you willing to gambit your bodily fluids, is to try and consume as much tea and food as you do toxic waste water, better known as 'bei jiu'... white lightning.

 

Needless to say, I was able to pace myself tonight and outdrank my friend who weights almost 60 pounds more and who drinks this every day... The key to my gambit was to out "gan bei" him, and out pace him.

 

"Gan Bei" means dry bottom, and better known as "bottoms up"; In South China, this can just means 'cheers' and a sip; In Baoding, "Gan Bei" is serious business and means you drink the entire glass regardless of how little or much you have.... it means the full monty of downing your glass... Since I had a plan in mine, I drank considerable tea and consumed alot of food during the process... By about glass #3, it tastes closer to water and only discipline to pace oneself with tea and food is needed.

 

All this told me two things: (1) I'm on a serious pace to be able to drink this crap fairly easily with anyone. (2) I'm on a serious pace to make a complete fool of myself at some point when my body decides that one day I drink is a day I shouldn't drink... I've been there too many times and the conundrum is that this small lesson is not easily learned. I've made the drunken fool of myself quite a few times in past visits... this trip, I'm determined to apply the 'pace' method... of course, I could decide to not drink but that would spoil the fun of the game... For now, the watch-word is, "gan bei"!

[SheLikesME?]

Enjoying this David. Glad you are there. I will have to try the 3rd point of the triangle some day. You sure can bring back memories.

 

Thanks!

[amberjack1234]

Great storied David. I was in Boading, Dingshou, Tianjin and Beijing last December and January.

 

Larry

[david_dawei]

Traveler's Tip

"Gan Bei" means dry bottom, and better known as "bottoms up"; In South China, this can just means 'cheers' and a sip; In Baoding, "Gan Bei" is serious business and means you drink the entire glass regardless of how little or much you have.... it means the full monty of downing your glass...

If you are not drinking liquor, then you can still participate in the drinking with tea... or if you decide to stop drinking liquor, then switch to tea. Also, I always get rice at some point... but no substitute for drinking alot of tea to dilute your liquor.

 

You can check the bottle for it's alcohol content; I would say the usual drink is 35% (70 proof).

 

The customary calls to drink together while at the table are:

- he jiu (drink alcohol)-- pronounced as 'hu jio'

- he cha (drink tea)

- he shui (drink water; also can be used as a substitute for drink tea)

[david_dawei]

Great storied David. I was in Boading, Dingshou, Tianjin and Beijing last December and January.

 

Larry

I would love to hear a comparison made of your trip to these other places! And what part of Baoding, or east vs west...

[Dennis143]

Traveler's Tip

"Gan Bei" means dry bottom, and better known as "bottoms up"; In South China, this can just means 'cheers' and a sip; In Baoding, "Gan Bei" is serious business and means you drink the entire glass regardless of how little or much you have.... it means the full monty of downing your glass...

If you are not drinking liquor, then you can still participate in the drinking with tea... or if you decide to stop drinking liquor, then switch to tea. Also, I always get rice at some point... but no substitute for drinking alot of tea to dilute your liquor.

 

You can check the bottle for it's alcohol content; I would say the usual drink is 35% (70 proof).

 

The customary calls to drink together while at the table are:

- he jiu (drink alcohol)-- pronounced as 'hu jio'

- he cha (drink tea)

- he shui (drink water; also can be used as a substitute for drink tea)

I am quite surprised to read only 70 proof when most all the chiew / jiu / jio (I've seen different spelling) sold in the US is, as you know, 110 proof.

 

Persons with higher fat content have an advantage, as the fat cells hold water that dilutes the alcohol in the blood (thus, your tea drinking). Seems American fatties like me would be able to drink those skinny runts hands down.

 

Be sure to represent us good, David.

[david_dawei]

April 2:

Catching up on giving our missed meals... Maybe when this is all done, I'll consolidate all meals to one post and category somehow... But don't expect an FAQ on it

 

Lunch the other day:

鲫鱼香椿汤,ji yu xiang chun tang，(delicious fish soup)

猪耳脆zhu er cui， (pig ear)

南瓜nan gua，(pumpkin and rice dish)

红烧肉hong shao rou，(pork dish)

蔬菜拼盘shu cai pin pan，(vegetable dish)

猫头丸子mao tou wan zi，(can't remember.. but not cat head!)

 

Breakfast the other day:

水饺shui jiao，(jiao zi soup... very nice small dumplings)

牛肉米线niu rou mi xian (spicy beef noodle soup)

 

Dinner at a friends:

红烧鱼hong shao yu，(excellent fish dish)

菠菜粉条bo cai fen tiao，(chinese spinach dish)

红薯玉米粥hong shu yu mi zhou，(sweet potato porridge)

兔架tu jia，(very tasty rabbit)

海米油菜hai mi you cai. (vegetable dish)

 

---

 

yesterday was 'day of the dead': 清明节 (Qing Ming Jie--QingMing Festival), tending to the graves of the departed... we drove out to the east side of Baoding and almost into the country side where the poor get poorer. Drove back through some small windy dirt streets which always make me see the true meaning of 'dirt poor'... Came to building which houses one's memorial pieces and pictures, which we brought out to a concrete area; placed food around the items and the traditional papers were set to fire, including 'hell money'... the food is thrown into the fire and the paper moved around to ensure it all burns up. Then we did our kowtow's to the departed and left... a somber 10 minutes.

Edited April 2, 2008 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

April 2: Part II

 

And last nights meal which paced me for rounds of 'he jiu":

豆腐皮烧肉 dou fu pi shao rou， (tofu with pork)

白萝卜青豆猪肉 bai luo bo qing dou zhu rou，(green bean with pork)

拌罗卜皮 ban luo bo pi，(turnips in vinegar and sugar)

小西红柿 xiao xi hong shi (tomato)

生姜水shen jiang shui (ginger soup)

 

and today's breakfast:

皮蛋瘦肉粥pi dan shou rou zhou，("1000 year old egg" in rice soup--really delicious)

蒸虾饺zhen xia jiao，(shrimp dumpling)

牛肉米线niu rou mi xian，(spicy beef noddle soup)

凉拌海带 liang ban hai dai. (seeweed cold dish)

 

Lunch:

陕西米面皮 shan xi mi mian pi，(rice noodle in soft vinegar sauce)

口条 kou tiao (beef tongue)

 

------

 

The other day, while talking about drinking, my wife told me a poem which goes as follows:

 

葡萄美酒夜光杯， pu2 tao5 mei3 jiu3 ye4 guang1 bei1

欲饮琵琶马上催。 yu4 yin3 pi2 pa5 ma3 shuang4 cui1

醉卧沙场君莫笑， zui4 wo4 sha1 chang3 jun1 mo4 xiao4

古来征战几人回。 gu3 lai2 zheng1 zhan4 ji3 ren2 hui2

 

beautiful grape wine in a sparkling cup

hurried desire for drink and music

laying intoxicated at the battlefield don’t laugh [at me]

campaigns of old saw few people return

 

overall meaning: If you don't die from drinking, you will die from war… ergo, drink now and enjoy with some music too.

Edited April 4, 2008 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[david_dawei]

Traveler's Tip

I will say that on my first trip for sure, and for a few thereafter, a confusing issue to sort out was the various negations in speech... I was in a state of "bu" confusion... and add in the companion negation of "mei" and the flexibly ubiquitous "mei you"...

 

So, I thought I would list out the most common ones i hear in baoding and their apparent usage:

 

不行 - bu4 xing2 – won’t do, out of the question, be no good, not be capable [of doing], general disagreement

不要 – bu4 yao4 – don’t need; an unnecessary [need]

不用 – bu4 yong4 – not necessary (very common catch-all to decline something as not needed to be done or not necessary)

不想 – bu4 xiang3 – don’t want (xiang can be used for wanting, thinking, believing, feeling; wo xiang ni--I'm thinking about you; wo xiang nian ni--I miss you)

不好 – bu4 hao3 – no good; common prefix to many phrases (ie: bu hao chi=doesn’t taste good; bu hao kan=doesn’t look good)

不对 – bu4 dui4 – incorrect, wrong, disagree

不懂 – bu4 dong3 – don’t understand/comprehend (common reply if you don’t understand something- wo bu dong)

不错 – bu4 cuo4 – not wrong, ergo… right, good, not bad (as in the food is pretty good—not bad).

不能 – bu4 neng2 – cannot, cannot make out, must not

不可能 – bu4 ke3 neng2 – impossible, not able

不一定 – bu4 yi1 ding4 – not necessarily

不一样 – bu4 yi1 yang4 – not the same; unlike; distinctive

不知道 – bu4 zhi1 dao4 – I don’t know

不客气 – bu4 ke4 qi5 – your welcome; don’t mention it. Literally not to stand on ceremony, so no need to really make any formality of it.

不用谢 – bu4 yong4 xie4 – your welcome; don’t mention it

不好意思 – bu4 hao3 yi4 si5 – “my bad”; my mistake, sorry, made a bad move there, etc. Commonly used for so many situations...

没事 – mei2 shi4 – No problem; don’t make anything of it; forget it; it’s nothing (probably most overused phrase I hear which is a social safety net for everyone to help others save or restore face)

没有 – mei2 you3 – to not have; general negation when bu doesn’t apply. Probably the most used negation I hear.

没关系 – mei2 guan1 xi5 – no problem as in it doesn’t matter; forget it; don’t make anything of it.

没问题 – mei2 wen4 ti2 – no problem as in it’s easy; not an issue.

 

There are other negations which don’t really utilize “bu” or mei” like eating; If asked if you want sometime to eat, you could reply that your full (chi bao le); or you can stick with a bu form; the simplified “bu chi” (which I observe some child using more than adults), or you don’t need anything (bu yao or bu yong).

Edited April 2, 2008 by DavidZixuan (see edit history)

[amberjack1234]

David I was in the west side of town. I saw things pretty much as you have described here with a few twist here and there. I don't have much time to write at this time of the year as I am in the Jet Ski business and it is that time.

 

I do get a chance about once every two days to have a look here and catch up on things.

 

I do hope that you enjoy yourself.

 

Larry

[david_dawei]

Traveler's Tip

 

If negations first offered confusion to me, then I¡¯ve always felt that the affirmations are much more intriguing for sure, since it seems that there is such a manifold means of affirming and a generic western response of ¡®yes¡¯ or ¡®no¡¯ is often not even needed. The simplest examples would be:

- ¡°are you going out?¡±, if yes, the answer is ¡°going¡±;

- ¡°do you want to eat?¡±, if no, the answer is ¡°don't want¡±;

- ¡°do you understand?¡±, if yes, the answer is ¡°understand¡±.

 

These answers are not necessarily answering ¡®yes¡¯ or ¡®no¡¯ as much as simply affirming or not the original comment. For this reason, sentences posed in a negative or double negative are more easily affirmed using this method than figuring out if you should be answering ¡®yes¡¯ and ¡®no¡¯. The answer to ¡°you are not going?¡± would be affirmed as true, as if to say, ¡®yes, I am not going¡¯.

 

Here is an early lesson I got on the concept of ¡°Yes-No¡± type questions and how they are can be answered in Chinese:

 

Phrase: Are you going to his house?

 

1. The ¡°A-not-A¡± question:

Ni qu-bu-qu ta jia?

 

2. MA suffix:

Ni qu ta jia ma?

 

3. Implied question:

Ni qu ta jia?

 

In English, all of these would simply take a ¡°yes¡± or ¡°no¡±, but in Chinese there are different response available.

 

All three could be answered with, ¡°wo qu¡± (I¡¯m going); The first A-not-A generally implies that ¡°qu¡± or ¡°bu qu¡± are the only expected responses; The latter two could also include affirmations of ¡°shi¡± (yes) or ¡°dui¡± (correct).

 

4. BA suffix, presupposition:

Ni qu ta jia ba (I take it you are going to his house, right?)

 

The Beijing dialect and surrounding areas appear to use this more than most other areas, and I find it used in Baoding alot but don¡¯t recall it too much in Yunnan or Guangdong provinces. I¡¯ve often wondered if this emphasis on using presupposition speaking imposes more effort on those in conversation to really pay attention or to know the other person fairly well since one is almost guessing their action or intent at times.

 

In some cases, it is almost used in Jedi master persuasion as if to be telling the person what they are thinking or should be thinking¡­ The most common use of this I hear in Boading is when something happens to someone, another person will quickly say, ¡°Mei shi ba.¡±, which is a form of asking if they are ok, but from my observation, it is one person implying to another that they are really ok and they will say Mei shi (no thing, nothing).

 

That there are so many A-not-A combinations possible, it¡¯s only worthwhile to mention only a few and if others have some favorites, would be good to hear:

hao-bu-hao ¨C good, ok?

dui-bu-dui ¨C correct?

qu-bu-qu ¨C going?

lei-bu-lei ¨C tired?

 

One can use the previous ¡°bu¡± list I posted to naturally see many of the A-not-A possible...

[david_dawei]

More on Traffic

Despite the daily duty going on each morning to work and each evening back home; despite the sea of stares in endless chain; despite the seemingly unchanging nature of everything going on around me, in the end, traffic flow still has me mesmerized¡­ and the operative word is ¡°flow¡±.

 

I¡¯ve said before; The US is about law and order (operative word is law), where China appears more to just be about order. The former seems to enforce morality and the latter just duty or ethic. China¡¯s not interested in the concept of enforcement the way the west is fundamentally fixated on it; For many Chinese, only a criminal would have a good, certainly not even a police man needs one [if there is proper order].

 

This lack of enforcement also plays into not trying to control people¡¯s actions too much, which of course seems contradictory to so much of how the west characterizes China: as under the complete control of the central government. The long established proper ¡°relationships¡± as developed by Confucius seems to be at least one appeal to order that the central government might begrudgingly accept from traditional values, which they are wont to despise in general. IMO, it is this web of relationships which is the social glue to social order. Developing and navigating the social relationships is mother¡¯s milk to the young since their social survival on some level will depend on it.

 

How much more important from a safety point of view is the understanding of the relationships of the roadway where cars, taxis, buses, motorized bikes, mopeds, bicycles and pedestrians all move from point A to point B; yesterday I realized that this list includes animals as I watched with some fascination a very small dog following it¡¯s owner without the use of a leash, and the potential fate this animal was toying with by being a participant in traffic crossings. The owner rarely paid any mind to the animal other than to always walk forward and call it¡¯s name¡­ the dog did a death dance to get across each road and the ensemble of roadway users simply treated it as yet another body in this seemingly controlled chaos of traffic; Essentially, a synchronized game of chicken.

 

The cars, which have their turf invaded by the bike and pedestrians do get their revenge by going down the service roads usually meant for bikes and even onto the wide strips of sidewalk where parking often occurs¡­ This vehicle invasion onto the sidewalks now makes this navigation an equal hazard on some level.

 

The secret to all this is found in the concept of flow; and to be philosophical precise, it can be found in chapter 8 of the Dao De Jing (Lao Zi¡¯s The Way and the Power): Water approaches/benefits all things without contending with them; if you don¡¯t contend, you cannot be found to have fault. In this chapter, the highest good of man is compared to water and therefore just as water is close to dao, man can likewise be close to dao.

 

I once had a serious conversation with someone about traffic flow and we discussed it from the perspective of Yin Yang. Essentially, we talked of how water¡¯s basic nature is to move to level itself and to keep moving as well. That the ultimate mechanism for any system is to seek equilibrium and to not be hindered in movement (consider Newton¡¯s first law of motion). Then try to apply that to traffic flow; The ultimate goal for everything in the system (vehicles and people) is to keep moving since it is easier on the vehicle and the body to simply change direction and continue to move rather than having to start and stop all the time¡­ it produces a wear and tear on both machine and man.

 

And what I see in Baoding is this idea applied: That nobody really wants to stop completely but will meander a winding course around everything in it¡¯s path, including driving on the wrong side of the road, going onto sidewalks, walking out in front of cars, etc. I¡¯ve tested this theory a bit and if I try to cut off a car by walking in front of it, it will invariably simply find another path if one exists¡­ I really pressed my luck the other day and was determined to see if I could get a certain car to stop by simply walking out in front of it as he was about to turn left, but he simply drove on the wrong side of the road, then turned left into the wrong side of the road and switched back over when he could.

 

For all the horn blowing going on, it really seems little more than, ¡°I¡¯m coming; be careful; don¡¯t come into my path¡±. Rarely do I see drivers blow their horn in a reactive way; it is usually proactive and therein lies the intent¡­ the desire to keep moving¡­ like water¡­

[yuan fen]

More on Traffic

 

How much more important from a safety point of view is the understanding of the relationships of the roadway where cars, taxis, buses, motorized bikes, mopeds, bicycles and pedestrians all move from point A to point B; yesterday I realized that this list includes animals as I watched with some fascination a very small dog following it¡¯s owner without the use of a leash, and the potential fate this animal was toying with by being a participant in traffic crossings. The owner rarely paid any mind to the animal other than to always walk forward and call it¡¯s name¡­ the dog did a death dance to get across each road and the ensemble of roadway users simply treated it as yet another body in this seemingly controlled chaos of traffic; Essentially, a synchronized game of chicken.

 

Yes, this does involve animals. Last month while I was in Shanghai I also noticed on a few separate occasions dogs functioning within the masses. This blew me away, to say the least. The first time I noticed was similar to what you described, "dog following it¡¯s owner without the use of a leash, and the potential fate this animal was toying with by being a participant in traffic crossings. The owner rarely paid any mind to the animal other than to always walk forward and call it¡¯s name¡­" I called this dog "Still In Training."

 

The other times involved another dog on different occasions. The first observation was where the dog was without it's owner simply walking along the sidewalk like it were a person. The dog appeared to be on a mission to get where it was heading, but not in a hurry just at a consistent stride. What was really interesting was when the dog attempted to cross the 2 lane street, it looked in both directions, paused for the taxi to pass, and then crossed the street continuing with the exact same stride. When the dog reached the corner to cross the 8 lane street it stopped, and waited for the people to cross when the light changed. I later observed the same dog within the residential area with it's owner, which was an elderly woman, but at that time the dog was simply the follower.

 

Anyway, very interesting observations indeed.

 

Also, "Traveler's Observation #3," was a good topic that I feel some have not experienced just yet. Or, maybe some have experienced the issue, but may not have understood the background at the time. I face these opportunities daily, and I feel it is just part of that, Face.

 

Blog on...............