China: West should do more

[heyjimi]

I certainly believe in saving the environment, however China is claiming poverty and that China is "only" a developing country. That's a cop out. China should do as much as the USA. China is a world class pwer when they want to be. They can't choose to be a developing country just when it suits them!

 

 

exactly my point.If it is to be done,all should do it as a whole,it is not just America's problem, just because we are the big guy on the block.It is everyones problem.And my other point is,if it is natural for these climate changes to happen on this planet,which i believe it is.what can we do?

these changes have happened all through history,we must not forget,there was an ice age,and man had nothing to do with that...and by the way man did survive.So i'm not trying to be political,but to point out it is all natural changes going on...on this planet. that having been said,of course we can do things to conserve...but as the saying goes"easier said than done"

[Shenzhen K-1]

The C02 in the atmosphere and the erosion of the ozone is all man made!! CFC's and bromines from halons are depleting the Earth's protective ozone layer that filters out most of the sun's ultraviolet rays. All of this contributes to:

 

1. Skin cancer.

2 Eye cataracts.

3. Vegetation is being damaged.

4. Sea life is being affected.

5. Increase of smog at ground level.

 

[Joanne]

I guess I will just try to maintain a reasonable life style to prevent me from consuming too much natural resources.

 

Such as:

- use less living space, so that it takes less energy to maintain a comfortable home (lower the rent/morgage in the mean while)

- don't buy unnecessary clothing and other stuffs

- use less chemical products

- buy less packaged food

- avoid unnecesary travel (I currently don't own a car and use a car share company or rental for long distant travels. This arrangement helps me reduce the unnecessary travel)

- re-cycle as much as possible (without sacrificing any convenience). Now we have a lot of re-cycle program at home: daughter use the waste paper to carry out her very productive drawing activities; we use packaging paper boxes to do craft projects; we use yogurt cartons as freezer boxes (as part of our supply at least); I re-use grocery bags, then use them as garbage bags.

 

I met some freegans this summer in New York. I think their idea is not bad, although I would never push myself to that extremely desciplined life style. I want convenience. However, I think I should do my share to reduce stress to be added to our planet.

[GZBILL]

China: West should do more to cope with warming

-------------------

 

I found this very interesting since the message from china is one that I have stated over the last year here, concerning per capita issues...

 

Chinese representative to the world conference on Saturday questioned the fairness of binding cuts when China¡¯s per capita emissions are only about one-sixth of America's. Beijing said that it has been pumping pollutants into the atmosphere for a mere of three decades, whereas the Western developed countries have done so for hundreds of years.

"China is in the process of industrialization and there is a need for economic growth to meet the basic needs of the people and fight against poverty," said Su Wei, a top climate expert for Chinese government and member of its delegation at the U.N. Climate Change Conference in Bali, Indonesia.

 

"I just wonder whether it's fair to ask developing countries like China to take on binding targets," Su said. "I think there is much room for the United States to think whether it's possible to change its lifestyle and energy consumption patterns in order to contribute to the global climate."

 

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I've posted this here in the hopes it receives better reception and response; If you can't stay to topic nor avoid baiting comments.. stay out of the thread or risk being deleted. Let's have a civil discussion if that's possible.

 

I'm not sure that there can be far-reaching international agreement at all on what to do; it will probably fall mostly to independent measures being applied domestically. I do think that those at the top of the heap should curb their appetite more so (and I mean measured by population, so per capita).

 

My final hope is that some countries will not hide behind the "it will hurt our economy" cry... if you sleep in your bed, you should make it as well.

 

It's a difficult call, but I'd say China is acting like a baby on this one.

 

No matter what you think, though, the concept of Western nations accepting binding cuts while developing countries don't is a non-starter. I doubt it will ever happen.

[heyjimi]

The C02 in the atmosphere and the erosion of the ozone is all man made!! CFC's and bromines from halons are depleting the Earth's protective ozone layer that filters out most of the sun's ultraviolet rays. All of this contributes to:

 

1. Skin cancer.

2 Eye cataracts.

3. Vegetation is being damaged.

4. Sea life is being affected.

5. Increase of smog at ground level.

 

 

 

who said?

[Corbin]

I read this article in the Chicago Tribune today and very thought provoking!! Yes we as the world leader need to take a real stance and help in curbing this problem. But.....how many here??

 

1. Recycle??

2. Use E85 fuel??

3. Drive a vehicle that gets over 25 mpg??

4. Turn your heat or A/C down and use a programable thermostat??

5. Have your vehicle's A/C serviced properly and not allow freon into the air??

6. Keep oil and other stuff down the drain??

7. Etc..

I will say this.

 

1. Recycle?? --- guilty, don't do like I should

2. Use E85 fuel?? --- my car can't use it and I wouldn't because my fuel millage would suffer.

3. Drive a vehicle that gets over 25 mpg?? --- The best I have gotten is 20 mpg (99' Tahoe, ex police cruiser)

4. Turn your heat or A/C down and use a programable thermostat?? --- Don't have one, but would only do so much since my home isn't energy wise.

5. Have your vehicle's A/C serviced properly and not allow freon into the air?? --- My car A/C doesn't have freon, its the other stuff.

6. Keep oil and other stuff down the drain?? --- never have dumped oil down the drain, but have been guilty other things. Don't do it anymore though.

7. Etc..

 

I think that the above list is a good one, but I question some of the things on it because I am never one to take things at face value.

 

Like does E85 really help or how much does it really help, it is still a hydrocarbon based fuel. Turning down the A/C and heat works, but only if you don't go crazy with it. Also your home needs to be energy wise. I question the change from freon to what is used now. We have been told that what is used now pollutes less, but I have also heard that it was more base on the fact that the patten was up on freon (don't have any fact so I could be wrong).

 

Now please don't get me wrong, I think we need to do our part, but if we are we need to do it the right way. For example the heating and cooling of our homes tend to be over done. The furnace - A/C tend to be to big, brute force method instead of design for the house. Most of our homes are not as energy efficient as one might think. I could go on, but I will not...........

[Corbin]

and as far as global warming,Mars is also having a global warming ,and there is no human up there causing it.....global changes are all natural.

 

Do we know how Mars got the way it is? Do we know that humans or an equivalent entity didn't do to Mars in the very distant past what we're doing to Earth right now? Are we really willing to bet the future of this planet on humans having no effect and thus do nothing? Do we really know that turning into a lifeless orb of dust and ice is inevitable?

 

 

no,we don't know that ,it is possible but....,you missed my point.....Mars is having a global warming, NOW !!! and humans is not causing it. that is my point.

global warming caused by what man is doing is a rubish.complete rubish,nonsense.

The volcanic activity on earth spits out far more than we humans do (If I remember right). Not that we shouldn't try to pollute less.

Edited December 10, 2007 by Corbin (see edit history)

[Shenzhen K-1]

The C02 in the atmosphere and the erosion of the ozone is all man made!! CFC's and bromines from halons are depleting the Earth's protective ozone layer that filters out most of the sun's ultraviolet rays. All of this contributes to:

 

1. Skin cancer.

2 Eye cataracts.

3. Vegetation is being damaged.

4. Sea life is being affected.

5. Increase of smog at ground level.

 

 

 

who said?

 

 

This was signed by the Montreal Protocol agreement in 1987!! In our country it is the EPA Stratospheric Ozone protection division!!

 

The pictures of the ozone are done by NASA!!!

[Don]

The C02 in the atmosphere and the erosion of the ozone is all man made!! CFC's and bromines from halons are depleting the Earth's protective ozone layer that filters out most of the sun's ultraviolet rays. All of this contributes to:

 

1. Skin cancer.

2 Eye cataracts.

3. Vegetation is being damaged.

4. Sea life is being affected.

5. Increase of smog at ground level.

 

 

 

who said?

 

 

This was signed by the Montreal Protocol agreement in 1987!! In our country it is the EPA Stratospheric Ozone protection division!!

 

The pictures of the ozone are done by NASA!!!

 

 

 

We can and should separate carbon emission from other emissions types. Sulfur, NOx, mercury etc. These emission must be reduced not matter what development level a country is at. China does produce most of these pollutants in the world (i am not sure of a per capita number just totals). This list poisons your people and causes severe damage to your land. Plus, they go on to other lands. Korea, Japan and the US West cost are all being affected by this list from china. Technology does exist to reduce these polutants, they can be bought from many countries not just the US. Carbon emission might still be at the discussion phase, but other pollution can be reduced. Unfortantly, too many people want to talk about carbon when more important emissions are being ignored.

[david_dawei]

China: West should do more to cope with warming

-------------------

 

I found this very interesting since the message from china is one that I have stated over the last year here, concerning per capita issues...

 

It's a difficult call, but I'd say China is acting like a baby on this one.

 

No matter what you think, though, the concept of Western nations accepting binding cuts while developing countries don't is a non-starter. I doubt it will ever happen.

If I were looking only at this moments issue, I might agree about how china is acting.. but this is the result of years of pushing from developed nations who won't do anything themselves.

 

I think their point is: Why are developed nations (like the US) who won't do anything despite decades of known excess ask developing nations (like china and India) to do something, ergo, more...

 

But I am of the opinion that china is already doing more than the US... but their motivations may be more domestic-social; Unlike the US, I think China will not allow themselves to become hostage to suppliers of oil although they take a much longer view of how to correct this and it may be slower as well to get the country changed.

[skibum]

Kids are the largest cause of increase of polution. The more people, the more natural resorces are used. Did anyone look at Al Gore's movie "An Inconvient Truth?" I have not but I bet it does not explain why he and Tip have four.

[lostinblue]

use a programable thermostat in my home I married one.....When I leave for work Yan turns down the heat. Years ago on the waltons every one said good night to each other. At my house the last words are .....turn down the heat

[IllinoisDave]

Kids are the largest cause of increase of polution. The more people, the more natural resorces are used. Did anyone look at Al Gore's movie "An Inconvient Truth?" I have not but I bet it does not explain why he and Tip have four.

 

[DMikeS4321]

China: West should do more to cope with warming

-------------------

 

I found this very interesting since the message from china is one that I have stated over the last year here, concerning per capita issues...

 

Chinese representative to the world conference on Saturday questioned the fairness of binding cuts when China’s per capita emissions are only about one-sixth of America's. Beijing said that it has been pumping pollutants into the atmosphere for a mere of three decades, whereas the Western developed countries have done so for hundreds of years.

"China is in the process of industrialization and there is a need for economic growth to meet the basic needs of the people and fight against poverty," said Su Wei, a top climate expert for Chinese government and member of its delegation at the U.N. Climate Change Conference in Bali, Indonesia.

 

"I just wonder whether it's fair to ask developing countries like China to take on binding targets," Su said. "I think there is much room for the United States to think whether it's possible to change its lifestyle and energy consumption patterns in order to contribute to the global climate."

 

----------

 

I've posted this here in the hopes it receives better reception and response; If you can't stay to topic nor avoid baiting comments.. stay out of the thread or risk being deleted. Let's have a civil discussion if that's possible.

 

I'm not sure that there can be far-reaching international agreement at all on what to do; it will probably fall mostly to independent measures being applied domestically. I do think that those at the top of the heap should curb their appetite more so (and I mean measured by population, so per capita).

 

My final hope is that some countries will not hide behind the "it will hurt our economy" cry... if you sleep in your bed, you should make it as well.

 

I heard on the radio today that the U.S. has (proportionately) reduced it's "greenhouse gas emissions" more than any of the countries that signed on to the Kyoto Accords. I'll check to see if I can confirm this statement as being factual.

 

As for your last statement, David, what if it CAN hurt out economy? I'm not sure we can be cavalier about that. The U.S. is the richest nation in the world, but don't we also shoulder a disproportionate share of the foreign aid and charity worldwide? I'm not sure the American economy (read that "American PEOPLE", as WE seem to pay for everything Washington does) can continue to thrive under the stresses we are witnessing now. It isn't a forgone conclusion that we will ALWAYS be the wealthiest country. Is that good or bad? Are we prepared for it, either way?

 

Just asking...

[GZBILL]

China: West should do more to cope with warming

-------------------

 

I found this very interesting since the message from china is one that I have stated over the last year here, concerning per capita issues...

 

It's a difficult call, but I'd say China is acting like a baby on this one.

 

No matter what you think, though, the concept of Western nations accepting binding cuts while developing countries don't is a non-starter. I doubt it will ever happen.

But I am of the opinion that china is already doing more than the US...

 

How so?