Sa Jiao

[NewDay2006]

Actually, it sounds pretty dangerous to me. How can I be sure that he would be patient enough to tolerate?

Thinking about it more, I agree: it might be dangerous.

 

It comes down to trust. Does he want you to trust him with your full range of emotions? Can you trust him to ignore temporary flashstorms of mood and focus in on how much he loves you?

 

That's what you want, I know. You want to be totally accepted, even when you being a troublemaker. You want unconditional love, even when you are acting in a somewhat unlovable way. Which would truly demonstrate his love for you, right? (note to guys: it doesn't work that way in reverse, sorry) Trust again: does he trust you enough to not exploit the situation to not be afraid to love you truly unconditionally.

 

It seems like most Americans have unconditional love within socially-acceptable norms.

 

...which, of course, likely contributes to the divorce rate.

 

It's hard to say: "I love you, even if you are a bitch to me for the next 10 years, even if you cheat on me, even if you pour hot bacon grease on me while I'm asleep." But my wife wants that sort of love, because SHE knows she will never do that. It's my choice whether to trust her to never go insane on me.

 

I still feel some hesitancy, because it is dangerous; to give someone that much power in your life is scary. But I have decided to trust her to this level. I have removed all conditions to my love and commitment.

 

 

...to tell the truth, it feels good, and it makes "not sweating the small stuff" easier. We've been much happier...

I guess it might work for you, goodluck.

My past marriage ended quickly... don't know if that was the reason or she was simply a greencard seeker... it was shocking to say the least, my ex drew the line in the sand at every turn.

 

I kind of need my women to act rational,... I wonder, is that an irrational thought by me?

 

I beleive one has to "not sweat the small stuff",... but isn't it mostly all small stuff in day to day living?

[A Mafan]

I guess it might work for you, goodluck.

My past marriage ended quickly... don't know if that was the reason or she was simply a greencard seeker... it was shocking to say the least, my ex drew the line in the sand at every turn.

 

I kind of need my women to act rational,... I wonder, is that an irrational thought by me?

 

I beleive one has to "not sweat the small stuff",... but isn't it mostly all small stuff in day to day living?

She might have just been seeking a green card; or you might not have understood what she was seeking from you.

 

I really don't know, to tell the truth. I wish I was some Zen master who could tell you some hidden truth about your own relationships...but I'm just some fool who nearly screwed up my own marriage through ignorance and arrogance and immaturity.

Joanne asked me once if I really was so bad to have my wife get so angry. I didn't know what to say because I didn't think I was that bad, but no one really considers themselves bad, or a jerk...yet we meet jerks every day, right?

 

I do know what is working for me, and I just want to share these flashes of insight in hopes that it can help someone else. I would not insist that my experience applies to everyone. Every relationship is different. The right medicine applied to the wrong illness can make things worse instead of better.

[chrisnhong]

This is good stuff. When first confronted with this, it can really throw you. It takes a lot of courage to respond correctly as it can feel like you're putting your marriage on the line.

 

It's basically a test, of your character and your love.

 

Here in Australia, guys often express friendship with insults. Losing it in response is very uncool. I was hanging with a friend last week, his received a phone call, looked at the number and said to me, "it's my brother-in-law", he opened the phone and said "What do you want, ya fat bastard?". I've seen it happen in the US. SaJiao is broadly the equivalent coming from a female.

 

There is a real need to detach your emotions from her tone and argument. Now if you can come back and give her some playful put-downs in turn, it can get to be really fun. Be VERY careful, because her self-esteem can be an issue.

[Joanne]

I guess it might work for you, goodluck.

My past marriage ended quickly... don't know if that was the reason or she was simply a greencard seeker... it was shocking to say the least, my ex drew the line in the sand at every turn.

 

I kind of need my women to act rational,... I wonder, is that an irrational thought by me?

 

I beleive one has to "not sweat the small stuff",... but isn't it mostly all small stuff in day to day living?

She might have just been seeking a green card; or you might not have understood what she was seeking from you.

 

I really don't know, to tell the truth. I wish I was some Zen master who could tell you some hidden truth about your own relationships...but I'm just some fool who nearly screwed up my own marriage through ignorance and arrogance and immaturity.

Joanne asked me once if I really was so bad to have my wife get so angry. I didn't know what to say because I didn't think I was that bad, but no one really considers themselves bad, or a jerk...yet we meet jerks every day, right?

 

I do know what is working for me, and I just want to share these flashes of insight in hopes that it can help someone else. I would not insist that my experience applies to everyone. Every relationship is different. The right medicine applied to the wrong illness can make things worse instead of better.

 

There is always different ways of giving and taking between loving couples. AM has told us clearly that his wife has given much in this marriage. If this Sa Jiao is her special way of taking, she deserves it and it is great that AM has figured it all out and find this special way to give. AM is kind to share his discovery with other members. In my opinion, 90% of husbands would not have such patience. At least not for very long.

[paula]

I love "Sajiao", I think most of women love doing it, they want to be paid more attention to, or being pampered or spoiled by their men. I alwayd do it to my husband, most of time my husband just hold me and pat me on the head, or kiss me. I felt happy, he felt happy. It is a just way of showing love in daily marriage life. but I wondered all women in the world do Sajiao? or only chinese???

[SmilingAsia]

the way i found to solve the problem with my wife is to tell her to pack her bags , and i will book her a ticket back to china the first thing in the morning , works every time , always the night gets better

Boy, it accumulates resent, hatred. µ£ÐÄÇïºóËãÕÊ!

[david_dawei]

Rather, 'sa jiao' is based on an assumption of intimacy. If she can 'sa jiao' with you, it is because she assumes you won't get angry. She assumes that you love her and will give her what she needs. It is somewhat playful, in that if you laugh and then pamper her until she feels satisfied, it will be a warm memory for you both.

 

I'd like to emphasize, too, that it's not like you need to move heaven and earth to pamper her. She just wants to see you deliberately put her and her needs first.

 

As my wife has put it (before I caught on): "You say you love me. You can't indulge the person you love most? You can't brush off a little minor complaining and just do what you should know is right? You have to make an issue of my tone of voice when I'm supposedly the love of your life?"

 

I used to beg her for a signal of love amid a display of her temper, to soften the blow. Now I realize that her temper is the actual signal of love I was looking for. It is an assumption that she is safe within my love, even including the safety to be bitchy. And if I betray that assumption by reacting in hurt or anger, it causes a bigger problem in our relationship.

 

Sure, I could say that if she loves me, she should be able to control her temper/irritation/what have you. Okay. Do I want to be right and be divorced, or do I want to learn to rise above her outward display and depend on her inner feelings of love?

 

This the reason we hear once in a while a chinese lady say of americans (or through the USC recounting a story):

1) how the USC gets angry so easy (and the USC defends himself as not having gotten angry when she says he was.. If you don't brush off the minor complaining and various other ploys, your probably betting angry on some level)

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

[SmilingAsia]

You guys are scaring me !!

I am married to a woman who I would do anything I can to make her happy.

Yet, when I read what you guys are saying, you may as well be talking rubbish.. I don't understand a thing your saying.

So, it scares me. What is it I need to know to make my wife happy?

I know you have tried to explain, and I read your words, but I dont understand at all

If someone can explain to me in really simple words, maybe I can get it?

I think Mafan's case is very special. His logic suits his specific case. If you have married a single mother, she has been tamed by life before you do. If you are married to a daughter of farmers or average workers, she may not have been spoiled.

 

I'm always amazed by Mafan's way of analysing a situation and the logic he has found.

To be honest, I always think Mafan has extremely high IQ and is very knowledgeable that it would be surprising if his wife doesn't admire this.

Mafan, in daily life, do you act like Newton or Albert Einstein大智若愚, 不吃人间烟火 and that's the reason Ya Tou is mad at you?

Edited September 10, 2007 by SmilingAsia (see edit history)

[JamesnYuHong]

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

 

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

[A Mafan]

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

 

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

Yes.

[Joanne]

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

 

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

 

Not me. Even if I wanted to show how seriously I was angry, I dare not to. I guess I wasn't angry enough to loose my sense.

[Randy W]

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

 

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

 

Not me. Even if I wanted to show how seriously I was angry, I dare not to. I guess I wasn't angry enough to loose my sense.

 

My ex-wife would tell me "I'm leaving you" everytime our discussions reached a point of disagreement. 3 days later it was kiss and make-up, with nothing ever resolved.

 

Finally, I told her, "If you're not out by Feb 2, I will be".

 

Games like that are not worth playing if they interfere with communication.

[SirLancelot]

2) how the USC let her leave the house without stopping her (her temper to get upset and leave the house is expecting the USC to stop her because he should feel and therefore should act as though no physical distance should get between them.. to not do that is completely counter intuitive to their way for the most part).

 

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

 

Not me. Even if I wanted to show how seriously I was angry, I dare not to. I guess I wasn't angry enough to loose my sense.

 

My ex-wife would tell me "I'm leaving you" everytime our discussions reached a point of disagreement. 3 days later it was kiss and make-up, with nothing ever resolved.

 

Finally, I told her, "If you're not out by Feb 2, I will be".

 

Games like that are not worth playing if they interfere with communication.

 

 

Randy brings up the American counter point, as did Dennis earlier.

 

Sa Jiao would indeed be construed as a "game" by most American men.

 

I tend to view SaJiao as affection and flirtation. A method to obtained a certain goal in mind. Most Chinese men go along with it because culturally they're used to this concept and accept it. But I don't believe most American men will accept it or even really understand it. It will most likely be viewed as the Chinese SO being rather childish, spoiled and immature.

 

Sa Jiao also goes directly counter to women's equality, IMO. A Mafan may disagree, but I think SaJiao doesn't work very well in the US because there is such a hard push for women to be the equal of men. Intrinsic in the idea of SaJiao is that men should really pamper the women. Feminists would consider SaJiao a form of cultural subjugation of women; a perpetuation of patronizing women to be in a continued childish & child-like state and an unhealthy dependence on men to achieve their goals.

 

(This is getting a little too deep, even for me. So I'll stop.)

[SmilingAsia]

I want to ask everyone (and maybe this would be better in the polls section) do your wives do this? Stomping out of the house in the middle of an argument, such that you have to follow her out to the sidewalk and try to get her to come back in?

If I leave because of an argument, I will pack a few clothes and some personal effects. Nobody can stop me. I will have a vacation, maybe in a friend's house. I will show up at the door in a few days ³Õ³Õ´ô´ô, È¥ÁËÓÖÀ´!

[IllinoisDave]

If I leave because of an argument, I will pack a few clothes and some personal effects. Nobody can stop me. I will have a vacation, maybe in a friend's house. I will show up at the door in a few days 痴痴呆呆, 去了又来!

 

That would scare the crap out of me! And I have to say I wouldn't be too happy about it, especially if I didn't know where she was.

 

I guess I have alot more to prepare for than I thought.