Images of China

[NewDay2006]

I agree that you can find extreme poverty just about anywhere. I was in Brazil and saw the "beautiful" people on the Ipenama Beach, then drove just a couple miles and saw people living in holes that they had dug out of the hillside. Most people in Brazil are very poor, and a very few are extremely rich.

 

I couldn't open the pictures, it took too long to open... but I would agree, I've been to Mexico and seen real poverty. I was poor as a youngster, but never on welfare. I always had a roof and clothes on my back... sometimes food was a challenge, but never for an extended time. When I think of people in the really poor places in the world like Africa and the third world countries, it is hard to stomach.

 

Like Mike said, we have a lot of poverty in our own backyard, but most times they can at least eat.

 

It has been said that something like 3% of the world's populations controls 90% of the wealth.

[rogerluli]

What I have come to realize in my time on Candle is that many members do not know China very well at all. Some USC's have made multiple trips to China and never left their SO's city... B) . Many others have only taken the canned tours of major sights in the big must see places. But even then you cannot have missed images of people working desparately hard to make a barely subsistence lifestyle. You cannot have failed to notice the grotesquely malformed beggars on the streets.

 

Laopo and I have not done nearly enough looking into the off the beaten path China either except in her home province of Hunan. There on our last trip we took a series of two two hour bus trips to some remote areas and although they were astoundingly scenic they were also very poor.

 

Almost every weeknight we also watch Hunan news on TV. They feature many programs that show the extreme poverty of much of China that most travelers never see. They have recently done series of programs swapping city kids and rural kids and a city teacher and a rural teacher. Differences are astounding. There ARE millions of very, very poor people in China.

 

The last thing I would like to bring up is that this thread has for some been used to beat the drum that trying to live in China is a very bad idea. I do not make the connection... I do not feel that my living in China makes it a poorer place. On the contrary my life there will bring money to China for all the goods and services we will need. Do I abhor poverty? Of course...Can I live in a country where extremes of poverty and wealth exist ? Yes. I am now living there already.

[IluvmyLi]

Walk out of the Consulate.

 

Turn left, walk to the corner.

 

Turn left, walk 1.5 blocks.

 

You will probably see a lady sitting on the sidewalk holding an infant. She was there 24 hours a day during my last trip to Guangzhou. And it was very cold end of jan. I could never see what she looked like because she would keep her and the baby covered up with a blanket.

 

My fiance refused to let me help her.

 

I don't know the situation in China if those panhandlers are the same as in the U.S. and just looking for enough cash for their next bottle of booze or not.

Edited March 30, 2007 by IluvmyLi (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

Walk out of the Consulate.

 

Turn left, walk to the corner.

 

Turn left, walk 1.5 blocks.

 

You will probably see a lady sitting on the sidewalk holding an infant. She was there 24 hours a day during my last trip to Guangzhou. And it was very cold end of jan. I could never see what she looked like because she would keep her and the baby covered up with a blanket.

 

My fiance refused to let me help her.

 

I don't know the situation in China if those panhandlers are the same as in the U.S. and just looking for enough cash for their next bottle of booze or not.

 

I have been in a similar situation. On our last trip I was about to give an old woman begging some money. Laopo looked at her and said to me "She has more money than you do."... B)

[RLS]

Walk out of the Consulate.

 

Turn left, walk to the corner.

 

Turn left, walk 1.5 blocks.

 

You will probably see a lady sitting on the sidewalk holding an infant. She was there 24 hours a day during my last trip to Guangzhou. And it was very cold end of jan. I could never see what she looked like because she would keep her and the baby covered up with a blanket.

 

My fiance refused to let me help her. B)

 

I don't know the situation in China if those panhandlers are the same as in the U.S. and just looking for enough cash for their next bottle of booze or not.

 

That's very interesting. I saw a very poor old lady sitting on the sidewalk in the poorest part of Nanning. I pulled out 10 yuan and was going to put it in her plate and my SO jumped all over me and said, no, no, and she was serious. I just moved on but wondered about it. Certainly my SO knows poverty, but did not want me to help this poor woman.

[tywy_99]

Those pics remind me of my first trip to China.

I met my wife at Pudong airport. We spent several days in Shanghai before catching a plane out of Hongqiao airport to her home city.

The airport in her home city was dilapidated. It looked at one time to have been a nice airport, big and spacious, but had fallen into disrepair.

We got a taxi and traveled down a wide straight concrete road and all along this road were the peasants. There were oxens and wagons pulling their loads. There were shacks, old cinderblock buidings with people living in them, big fires out front for cooking and so much more. It was a sight to see!

I wished I had taken pictures of these sights that I have never seen before.

[SinoTexas]

From NPR on this subject.

NPR Report On Rural China

 

And of possible further interest More NPR On China

 

As aye,

 

Jim

Edited March 30, 2007 by SinoTexas (see edit history)

[tywy_99]

From NPR on this subject.

NPR Report On Rural China

 

As aye,

 

Jim

Interesting website, Jim. Thanks

I'm having trouble with acronyms today..lol. What is NPR?

[SirLancelot]

And there in lies the EXTREME irony of the West meets East.

 

So many Europeans and Americans who visit China today still want to see this mythological fantasy of the past, ancient China. I found that often during my stay in China. So many tourists complaining about the rapid change in China and that it's destroying all the old, exotic Chinese image--or at least the Western perception of what China should be like. It's almost as bad as a Chinese visitor going to Georgia and remarking "Oh, what a pity the southern plantation houses with all the slaves are gone. It would have been so picturesque to have been able to take some photos of the slaves and big southern plantations."

 

The actual Chinese people don't want to be stuck in the past. They want to modernize and have brilliant, tall sky scrappers like NYC. They want to have first class and world class financial and high tech centers. They want genuine LV handbags and genuine Rolex watches, as much as you do, if not more.

 

The next time any of you visit China and think quietly to yourself how sad it is that China is changing so much and so rapidly, please try to remember what the actual Chinese people want. They want change. They want modernity. They want all the first class amenities the Europeans and Americans enjoy.

 

I just hope they spread the wealth between Shanghai, Beijing, GuangZhou and the rest of China.

 

What I have come to realize in my time on Candle is that many members do not know China very well at all. Some USC's have made multiple trips to China and never left their SO's city... . Many others have only taken the canned tours of major sights in the big must see places. But even then you cannot have missed images of people working desparately hard to make a barely subsistence lifestyle. You cannot have failed to notice the grotesquely malformed beggars on the streets.

 

Laopo and I have not done nearly enough looking into the off the beaten path China either except in her home province of Hunan. There on our last trip we took a series of two two hour bus trips to some remote areas and although they were astoundingly scenic they were also very poor.

 

Almost every weeknight we also watch Hunan news on TV. They feature many programs that show the extreme poverty of much of China that most travelers never see. They have recently done series of programs swapping city kids and rural kids and a city teacher and a rural teacher. Differences are astounding. There ARE millions of very, very poor people in China.

 

The last thing I would like to bring up is that this thread has for some been used to beat the drum that trying to live in China is a very bad idea. I do not make the connection... I do not feel that my living in China makes it a poorer place. On the contrary my life there will bring money to China for all the goods and services we will need. Do I abhor poverty? Of course...Can I live in a country where extremes of poverty and wealth exist ? Yes. I am now living there already.

[SheLikesME?]

The 2 times I went over for business we had to travel by car to get to the aircraft companies from the airports. Went through a lot of rural farming villages. One thing stood out was how happy and well dressed and fed the children were, everywhere. I don't doubt the pics shown, but generally speaking kids were clean, dressed well, fed well, and happy. I envied those people. We could throw all of those farming people I saw into poverty, but geeze they still had what we have lost in a big way in Ameirica, FAMILIES and some kind of peacful/loving unity with their fellow man that I just can't define! (My wife says I am nuts and that there is another side to that. But it was before her visit to America. Her impression of us was mixed. Nothing overwhelmingly positive.)

 

I took pics that are paper printed on my first trip in 2000. They were mostly of the people in villiges and what most would say is poverty. But that would miss the point entirely. All pics were taken from inside the cars through the glass so people would not know I took their pics. I did not want to insult them. I didn't see poverty at all. I saw happy people. I would have rather been poor in CHina and happy than return here.

 

How many of us went there for someone with family values? I never went on a tour. I didn't know ancient history like my son did. He is into swords and old chinese armies. I know how enthusiastic the Chinese are for the modern things we and europeans have, but the price, I am afraid, will be higher divorce rates and loss of hard working people and eventually the loss of that loving unity or what ever it is I feel over there outside of Beijing. I told a Medical Doctor on a plane who also taught at a University how the people have something we do not. After I explained she told me she would pass it on to the students who thought everything was better in America.

 

Maybe one of the things my wife can't stand about me is the opportunities I have and yet I waste. She was really shocked about how much we waste, and not just energy and food etc, but also time.

 

I'm just rambling guys, don't take anything serious.

 

PS: No heat in the schools? Heck I saw plenty of children playing outside in the freezing foggy cold like it was nothing to them. 3 of 4 of my trips were in winter. Parents would take their child out to eat. Literally OUT. Businesses were nothing more than a cloth covered 12'x12' area with a picnic table and a lil outsoor cooker, where they ordered their meal. This was a night out on the town. hahaha. I saw nothing but a blanket for maybe 20-25% of the front doors to homes. All these people seemed very happy and satisfied with life even if they want more and to improve themselves. Every office building I went into in winter had the wondows and doors open. So our perception of cold and poverty may not be theirs.

Edited March 31, 2007 by SheLikesME? (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

The 2 times I went over for business we had to travel by car to get to the aircraft companies from the airports. Went through a lot of rural farming villages. One thing stood out was how happy and well dressed and fed the children were, everywhere. I don't doubt the pics shown, but generally speaking kids were clean, dressed well, fed well, and happy.

 

CARS...ROADS... No wonder you didn't see the REALLY poor people Doug. Those villages do not have roads to them... Well at least roads as you and I would define them...Maybe more like paths... And people who have serious illnesses and no money to pay for treatments are NOT happy...Children who can't go to school because their parents cannot even afford the small payment needed are NOT happy...

[Dan R]

It is the poverty and the fear held by the middle class of slipping into it that sends many of China's Mulans (daughters) to other countries. They are the hope of the family. Taking jobs overseas that will allow them to send enough in a few years to secure the family's future and return home to them. Far from being a burden, daughters are the hope.

 

Restaurant work is one way. It does not make so much and will take longer to pay for a home and have the cushion needed for security in a cash based economy. It seems to generate about 2 to 3000/month for those back home. It takes years to pay for a home and most will probably end up settling in the host country.

 

The other is prostitution which gives a much quicker route and ability to return home in a couple years. These daughters will send home depending on their dedication and degree they are willing to accept 10 to 30,000/mo. This is the rapidly growing choice I have seen. 10 new brothels run by Chinese have opened within 5 miles of us in the past month. I was shocked to see how common place it is when someone showed me a newspaper that is the main advertising for such business. A few years ago there were very few Chinese girls advertising. Now there were 3 pages dedicated to Chinese ads in the L.A. area. For those that insist on evidence to support here is an article on a recent bust. Orange County. The local Chinese press has been following it closely.

 

Everything has two sides. If you look behind the poverty or the smiling faces of well dressed children you might be surprised at what you see.

 

Changing China offers many new opportunities to todays youth. There is much hope. As a credit based economy rises it will not be so critical to get all your money put aside quickly. There is a promising future ahead that the Mulans are investing in that should bring many changes.

Edited March 31, 2007 by Dan R (see edit history)

[tywy_99]

Those are some ugly ceiling fans! (expensive too!).

But I guess they would look okay in one of those houses of ill fame!

[SheLikesME?]

The 2 times I went over for business we had to travel by car to get to the aircraft companies from the airports. Went through a lot of rural farming villages. One thing stood out was how happy and well dressed and fed the children were, everywhere. I don't doubt the pics shown, but generally speaking kids were clean, dressed well, fed well, and happy.

 

CARS...ROADS... No wonder you didn't see the REALLY poor people Doug. Those villages do not have roads to them... Well at least roads as you and I would define them...Maybe more like paths... And people who have serious illnesses and no money to pay for treatments are NOT happy...Children who can't go to school because their parents cannot even afford the small payment needed are NOT happy...

Yeah I got a little too sentimental in my earlier write up.

 

I'm sure your right Rog. And I am sure there are a lot of folks upset and unhappy with conditions. Hell almost everybody will tell you how they want it better. I guess the good overwhelmed the bad in my eyes, and I would tell them that. Maybe I just havn't seen it quite as bad as the pics in the link, except for the same beggar woman and her kids in Beijing I have seen everytime, just filthy. Generally parents took better care of their kids than that, from what I saw. Nope I havn't hiked back in to towns with no roads that a bicycle or one of those one cyclinder 3 wheel scooter trucks, what ever they are called, can't go. But we were surrounded by those little trucks that farmers use.

 

Children usually don't know their poor. The roads we drove on got pretty narrow and pot holed like mad and muddy in the towns. By 2002 they had new highways to bypass what I saw in 2000.

 

In 2005 the spur train ride into some other rural areas were actually the worse I saw, up North. It was a mistake we made and we had to take a slow train to get back on the main line. Again I did not take pics because during a 30 min stop my wife and I walked through the town and I didn't want anyone to feel they were a spectacle to me. Lot of trash just heaped into a small stream next to the tracks. I thought well they are as stupid as us to polute the water that way. Why does the party allow them to do that I wonder? I had the impression it was smilar to the states because you see the back yards in AMerica from the tracks.

 

In Beijing: I tended to take walks into the old aerea in Beijing out on the very edge of the city. No other foreigners were around. Streets were barely streets and many things were filthy. I went into a few of the very old small businesses to observe. I found the dumps or recylce businesses that folks would bring their bundles of cardboard, plastic or what ever all heaped. Wife never has known I explored all of that. Oh yes there was an uotdoor pool hall in this big open area that maybe is set aside to be a paved street some day, but now it is like a giant alley. The police were there because of a fight that broke out over pool and the gambling but I think the police gambled too. The transition from one area to the other is quite distinct. Frankly I was happier doing that than walking the Forbidden City. I took the same walks when I could get away in the smaller towns. But heck I am no expert. I would just like to live there. This thread has made me think more serious about retirment in Dalian like my wife has mentioned. Lot of industry there, too.

[SinoTexas]

From NPR on this subject.

NPR Report On Rural China

 

As aye,

 

Jim

Interesting website, Jim. Thanks

I'm having trouble with acronyms today..lol. What is NPR?

National Public Radio. Glad you enjoyed.

 

As aye,

 

Jim