Retiring in China...Why?

[rogerluli]

I I love China....the culture, the people, the language, and more. We just returned from Shanghai, and I commented to my wife that the more I visit, the more comfortable I feel there.

 

 

Obviously this is where everyone has to start if they are seriously considering retiring in China. If you don't love being there then no amount of financial incentive will make you happy...

[rogerluli]

Dannie and I will be retiring to China in a few years. We both love and miss China. It is partly financially driven but also it is the food, people, culture and the country. We have not decided quite yet which city but we do know it will be on the ocean. Maybe Yan Tai or Qingdao. I agree with earlier posts about the food. Dannie hates the food here in the US, we seldom go out to eat, instead we cook at home. I think it is very important to select a city that has other Lao Wei and the creature comforts of some western conveniencies (sat tv with western channels, cheese and sour bread and english conversation).

With the price of housing here and the cost of living it is difficult to live the "good life" here on a small retirement. Why are so many americans becoming expats in mexico or costa rica or panama? We live in an over 55 apartment complex and see many senior citizens living a basic existence. I want to live the good life before I retire to a wheel chair!

I really liked Dailian but it does get cold there. Medical is a very big consideration, but I have found that the cost and quality for day to day health problems is very good, the cost of medicine is low and we are lucky to have several doctors and a surgeon in the family. I think if it comes time for something major then a trip back will be required. As it goes we will spend 4 months every two years in the states and that cost will be about what the cost of living in China for 20 months is. There is no way that I could afford all of the services (foot massage, body massage, shampoo and maid etc) and travel here in the US on my retirement income. For you young families here start saving now for those golden years.

mark

 

Mark you dog... You'll be beating us by about 4 years...

Oh well keep the mahjong table handy and we'll join you eventually...

[rogerluli]

The only problem is that the medical bill can be very high too in China without health insurance

 

Currently my employer pays $1385/mo for our health insurance. At my age of 65 it would be $855 for me to continue that full coverage even though I would be on Medicare. I think for that I could purchase very good health insurance in China. If that is not an option I would buy a high deductible plan to cover my wife in the US and then return here for any major medical issues. I also will receive a medical account from my employer of about half a years wages when I retire to use anywhere, anyhow I wish.

 

Roger,

 

$855 per month? You are getting screwed... My 82 year old mother pays $252 per month for a Mutual of Omaha Medicare Supplement Insurance plan that she picked up when she was 78. She's had carpal tunnel surgery, a hip replacement surgery and surgery to remove her gall bladder for a total cost of $0. I guess some of her meds aren't covered, but she had the sense to opt out of the MediCare presecription drug plan.

 

That said, I agree 110% with your retirement strategy. My only concern would be having enough saved so I could return to the U.S. for disability/death. Lao Po will live either place so it's up to me. I'll go first, God willing. I just can't see dying anywhere but in the U.S.

 

Best Regards

 

Mike the $885 includes health insurance for my much younger wife and prices in our neck of the woods are very expensive...We also would probably return to the US eventually if one of us would be in need of serious medical care that could not be gotten in China...otherwise I am perfectly comfortable staying there and drawing my last breath of air in China (cough, cough, hack)... just a little funny there... we intentionally bought in places with very good air quality in China...

[rogerluli]

My first trip to China left me thinking of living there. Second trip left me a bit less enamored. Third trip, I couldn't wait to leave. Forth trip was to get Xiahong to GZ for her visa and get the hell outa Dodge.

 

Two weeks is about all I can stand. I hate the food, the smells, the noise, the mass congestion, people pushing their way into an elevator car that is already overfull; etc. If I was forced to live in China, I'd shoot myself within a month.

 

Oh, Xiahong has been here for 3 1/2 years and has no desire to go back even for a visit.

 

Dear Sir, It would appear that you are... This thread is about "why" not "why not"...If you are unclear as to how to use this function please contact a mod... for assistance...further infractions will require that you be turned in to the ADMIN person who will administer the whomping you so richly deserve...

 

Have a nice day...

Edited March 16, 2007 by rogerluli (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

Good thoughts Roger and I do respect your views on this. You stated that your decision is primarily financial and that is certainly a valid reason to move there. If the Yuan and dollar were at par, in other words one to one, would you still go? If what you buy in Yuan would cost you equally in US dollars, would you still move to China?

 

As I have said, I teach a few university classes in China and here in Texas dealing with heritage tourism. It deals with the development of tourism opportunities in rural areas in attempts to bring some " green" economic development. On occasion, the topic turns to the impact of foreigners moving to a Chinese community. In some cases it comes to the moral issue of exploitation of the cheap Chinese labor force by foreigners. In this case, several of my Chinese students have said the main reason foreigners come to live in China is because they take advantage of the Chinese people. The foreigners can afford to buy nice places to live because it was built by cheap labor and the vast majority of Chinese would never be able to afford such a place. The overall cheap cost of living in China, by a foreigner, is built on the backs of poorly paid people who themselves, could not afford most of the things and services a foreigner has to maintain a standard of living as they had in their previous country. None of my students have ever seen a foreigner living for any length of time, like most of the Chinese population does. Many can only afford a couple of rooms, with few luxuries to live in, much less multiple homes.

 

Over course this nothing new. Corporations from all around the world do this until the costs to them becomes too expensive and they move on elsewhere.

 

There are many other factors to consider in moving including the environmental and social issues that are changing. But those are topics for another class and another time.

 

None of this is new for those of us that have spent anytime in China and especially for those married to Chinese spouses.

 

Just my thoughts, as well as those expressed by my students, on the subject. Good luck.

 

As aye,

 

Jim

 

If EVERYTHING was equal expenditure wise between the US and China then I would divide my time between the two countries. But of course that is definitely NOT going to happen.

 

On the very large question of foreigner's exploiting Chinese labor that is certainly true. But of course Chinese exploiting Chinese labor is 98% of that iceberg.

The development where we bought In Yuxi, Yunnan is a very large one with perhaps 20 buildings of 13 to 26 stories. I was the first foreigner to buy an apartment there and since then one other has. So let's estimate that by the time everything is sold that maybe 5 to 10 foreigners will own apartments there out of maybe 1500 places...a very tiny impact. Are the construction workers being exploited by the Chinese developer? You betcha. We talked to the construction manager and he gave us the final tour of our apartment when we signed on the dotted line (well actually it was laopo's red fingerprint but whatever). He said that the laborers were all from Sichuan because locals would not work for the wages they were paying. Do the laborers feel exploited? I don't think so. I think that they're happy to have these jobs and are making a lot more money than they would back in their rural Sichuan villages. When I am in China and go out to eat, or shop in a store or pay for any of the many services we will require will the worker/seller/owner be very unhappy to take our money because we are (or I am) foreigners? I don't think so. Does our living in China have negative impacts on the other Chinese around us? I don't see it. Could there be people who are jealous because we can afford more than they can? Of course but how is that any different than anywhere else? And I know there are plenty of Chinese that can buy and sell me with their pocket change.

 

Well I rarely write so much here so that's enough of my thoughts for now. This IS a big topic that perhaps deserves it's own show...

[tonado]

Visiting is fun but I would never retire in China. Too many people and too much pollution.

[SinoTexas]

Update China - Tax Property

 

As aye,

 

Jim

Edited March 20, 2007 by SinoTexas (see edit history)

[rogerluli]

Some people have expressed uncertainty over what you actually "own" when you buy a new house in China since the government OWNS all land in China when push comes to shove. When you buy a house you get the remains of a 70 year lease on your property. The lease date runs from when the development was approved, not when you buy the house. At the end of the lease term you renew the lease for a nominal fee.

 

Worrying about the government coming in to knock down new apartment buildings in an urban area to build a golf course is outside the realm of reality. Actually urban dwellers in China seem to enjoy considerable power over the "ownership" of their property.

 

In Qionghai, Hainan we looked at a development that was on the Wanquan River that flows through the city. Right across the street was a new bridge that went nowhere. I asked our real estate saleslady about it and she said the road was also finished on the other side but that one homeowner in the middle had resisted all offers and they could not finish the project until a price for their property had been agreed upon...

 

In her Hunan hometown, laopo owns a small, old apartment. Although she never wants to live there, and does want a place in her hometown for visits, she won't sell it and buy a new place... The old apartment is right in the city center, where she prefers to stay when there and when the building is replaced with a new one, which is happening in that area, she will be given an apartment of that size in the new building, or we can buy a larger one at the going rate minus the size of the old apartment.

 

Now in rural areas it is a different story and land is "reappropriated" for any possible use when needed. But even there "landowners" are compensated for their loss.

[Tony_onrock]

For any one wondering what owning a piece of property means in China, please read the new property law passed on March 16 and going into effect on 10.1 this year. Residential property is 70 year land use, renewed automatically at the end of 70 years.

[rogerluli]

For any one wondering what owning a piece of property means in China, please read the new property law passed on March 16 and going into effect on 10.1 this year. Residential property is 70 year land use, renewed automatically at the end of 70 years.

 

Here's a basic outline of the new property law from wikipedia...

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_Law_...public_of_China

 

with lots of links for more info...

[lostinblue]

Here is a different spin on things

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IC20Ad01.html

[rogerluli]

Here is a different spin on things

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IC20Ad01.html

 

Nothing new there...As I've said numerous times rural land is NOT treated the same as urban properties...

[Dan R]

Here is a different spin on things

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/IC20Ad01.html

 

Nothing new there...As I've said numerous times rural land is NOT treated the same as urban properties...

 

Either is it in the U.S. or any other country I'm familiar with.

[Tony_onrock]

whatever the policy, any government that tries to take away people's home won't be there for too long. It is just too personal and China has gone too far.

 

Anyways, I am trying to locate a second home as Roger did and plan my retirement. Searched high and low, could not find something that is what I am looking for. So, now trying to find land build together with some friends. Any one has been to Beihai in Guangxi? Heard that beach front properties and land are still affordable, not sure if it is true.

[RivaRich]

My husband and I already made a plan to go back to China when we are 55 years old. We both think living in China when we are old would be more comfortable than in America.

 

 

The communism in China thread brought out a little of this so if some is good, more is better...

 

For me the decision to retire in China is largely financial.

 

I had always hoped to be able to afford 2 homes when I retired and move with the seasons. In the US it would just be impossible to have 2 nice places in choice areas with my retirement income. In China it is very affordable. Even after finishing and furnishing costs for our two apartments in China the cost will still be well under what one comparably sized condo would cost in the US.

Property taxes are currently ZERO in China and even though that may change with larger houses some day I am certain it will be far less than real estate taxes in the US.

Services are very cheap in China compared to the US. The cost of food in both markets and restaurants is MUCH lower in China. Condo fees are much lower. Getting your hair styled/cut, getting your shoes shined, getting a massage, getting your car washed...you name it and the cost in China is far less than here. Laopo's Yuxi, Yunnan friend has her large (200 sq m) house cleaned every week. The cost for a full day of cleaning, laundry, etc. is $5.

 

Laopo is well aware of the financial advantage but her main interest is...FOOD... She loves Chinese food and the availabilty of very fresh and inexpensive food in markets and restaurants is the biggest draw for her. Also her son is in China and other family members and many friends throughout China make it attractive to be there rather than here.

 

We both plan to travel extensively both within China and SE Asia and costs for train travel, hotels, tours, food, etc. are very low compared to US travel.

 

My reasons here are kind of the nuts and bolts kinds of explanations. I have others of course that would be more in the cultural/philosophical realm of thought. For those contemplating this move...

Whada you think???