What About a Pre-Nup

[phantom1949]

I do think that asking a chinese woman would be no different than asking a woman from the US for a pre-nup...

Only issue I have this this thought it that maybe it carries an assumption that the chinese lady even knows what a prenup is...and I'm not sure how mainstream an idea it is in china compared to the US.

 

Some SOs we see on this board, as an example, have limited or no english.. not sure I could figure out how to explain the concept to my SO who speaks no english and has no concept of what it is or why it's used..

Dave, maybe you are right, but wouldn't that be his job to tell her or make sure she understands? Otherwise isn't that starting off on the wrong foot?

 

It's all relative. Couldn;t your SO consider your asking for a pre-nup (when she undetands it) as your lack of committment to her, to the relationship, and to a future if you do not trust her?

 

On the other hand these relationships like anyothers can go bad.

 

I have thought about this for a while and do not think it would work for me. For me it would be starting out on the wrong foot. But that's just my opinion. Marriage is about trust and what does a Pre-Nup say about trust to your SO.

 

IMHO

[phantom1949]

The more I think about it, to me a PRe-Nup shows a lack of committment to the relationship. If there is a concern, get to know the lady better up front. Look for signs up front of problems.

 

But when you ask her to marry you, it should be for life.

 

In other words, do your up front due diligence. In retrospect my bad marriages had warning signs up front that I ignored. Be careful up front but when you commit, commit.

[Dennis143]

I have a Chinese woman friend who has overstayed her visa. She is deparately seeking an American husband. It becomes quite a dilemna for her, when a prospective man learns she's here illegally. Naturally, alarm bells go off with them. The first man (Arizona) who was considering marriage, had a prenupt drawn. Mei asked me to read it for her. Mei's English is very limited. Our mutual friend, Mary, translated.

Basically, the crux of the prenupt was if the marriage were to disolve within 5 years, she would get no property, however, his lawyer wrote that she would receive a cash settlement of $5000 (he said that a judge would look favorably, if she received something). I told her that I thought the prenupt was fair, considering she is here illegally. She got cold feet and backed out of the marriage. I spoke with her potential husband on the phone on several occasions. I didn't mention to him that by not having it translated into Chinese, anything she signs would most likely be thrown out of court later.

 

There was much discussion about the prenupt among the circle of our Chinese women friends. Almost all had never heard of it. Most were appalled that a couple would enter a marriage with this hanging over their heads - basically, the onus is on the woman to tow the line or else was their feeling. All agreed that they would never sign a prenupt.

 

I have an American woman friend who was wiped out of her inheritance by an exhusband. She told me that if she were to ever considered marrying again, she would have him sign a prenupt (she is still wealthy). She went on to say that "Signing a prenupt is the ultimate act of love." As, it is a statement that the person is only interested in a life of love and nothing else matters.

 

Just a final note; I don't know what percentage or if anyone does, but it appears from most failed relationship reported here on The Candle end early, often very early, under a year and often months after their arrival. So it seems to me that more often than not a prenupt wouldn't be needed anyway.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Dennis143 (see edit history)

[NewDay2006]

Just a final note; I don't know what percentage or if anyone does, but it appears from most failed relationship reported here on The Candle end early, often very early, under a year and often months after their arrival. So it seems to me that more often than not a prenupt wouldn't be needed anyway.

 

Can't argue with this Dennis. In my case the Judge said nothing to the Ex.

Edited January 3, 2007 by NewDay2006 (see edit history)

[izus]

the little bit that i have learned about most chinese women, that are not like other women that have crossed paths in my life is that... the chinese woman has her own agenda and part of the commitment to each other includes you believing in that agenda of hers even if you dont know the first thing about what it is...

 

just trusting her enough to follow her when she needs to be followed....

 

now, do i think thats a good way to live, im still learning about that every day.

what i have learned is to accept these issues, the same way she accepts alot of new ways of mine...

 

i never had these views in my past, i would always jump to the macho ways...

and we all know that doesnt work.

 

its all about the trust

Edited January 3, 2007 by izus (see edit history)

[Urkidding]

So much rides on a pre-nup if you ever go to court such as:

 

1. The state you live in.

2. How long you have been married.

3. The ¡°allowance¡± set forth in the pre-nup

4. Your judge

5. Your lawyer

6. If she works or not, etc.

 

California is one of the hardest hit states when it comes to spousal support from what I have read. Since you live in Texas, there is a new law that requires you to pay spousal support for a certain period of time only if she is not working, but again I am sure the I-864 will kick in if the marriage has been short termed. Also keep in mind that in Texas (where you live) and I am sure you know this, that anything you owned up to the marriage is yours in case you decided to divorce.

 

But as NEWDAY2006 put it:

 

¡°You proved that just because you knew someone from LA didn't matter. She could have been Asian, White, Black or even Martian... Until you live with someone, you just don't know.

 

You might know right away or you may find out 2-10 years from meeting her....Heck you or she may never find out about everything if the other wants to conceal the "dirty" laundry.¡±

 

 

I know someone who lives in CA and married a Chinese girl who was here as a student. He had a pre-nup drawn up that read:

 

After the marriage begins you will received only 5% of all assets after 5 years,

After the 1st born, the only 10%

After the 2nd born, 50%

And so on and so on.

 

If I were her I would run the other way but she really did love him and wanted to stay here in the USA so she signed it.

 

She is now on the 3rd child running after the 75% mark and looking at 100% in the near future.

 

Again, I just couldn¡¯t go into a marriage with that hanging over my head!

[paula]

I am a Chinese woman, and I dont accept pre-nup, but I think a lot of young chinese maybe under 25 years old accept it now in China. We have taught that we will have only one marriage in our lifes and be faithful to our husbands since we were kids. So for me if someone asked me to sign up pre-nup, that means he would not be so confident with love and marriage with me, then why we should marry ? I understand here americans want to protect themself. I did ask my husband about pre-nup before we married, he said he would never do it to me, he aslo mentioned only rich people in states do that, he is not rich. Last night after I read this post I asked his opinion, he said love is love, business is business. He know his love for me, so he never worry about losing me. Yesterday, he also mentioned put my name on the title of our house, he told me he dont want me no place to live if something wrong with him. Love is mutual men, what he did makes me love him more. I am happy our life here as we love each other!!

[sawadee]

I really appreciate your positive attitude. And I fully understand it. A pre-nup would be a two-edge sword though, just a kind reminder. Some Chinese women minght think it an insult, cause in Chinese culture, a re-nup is not a good thing.(only in Chinese culture)

 

In other forums, I have read posts about local Chinese couples got involved in pre-nup before marriage, and how worse the relationship it turned to be. My suggestion is that you explain the reason why you want a pre-nup to her, being open and positive, and that will help the mutual understanding. And the most important thing is to prepare a fair one: not one just pretect your interests, but a one also considering her financial stableness, and she would really appreciate that.

[phantom1949]

I am a Chinese woman, and I dont accept pre-nup, but I think a lot of young chinese maybe under 25 years old accept it now in China. We have taught that we will have only one marriage in our lifes and be faithful to our husbands since we were kids. So for me if someone asked me to sign up pre-nup, that means he would not be so confident with love and marriage with me, then why we should marry ? I understand here americans want to protect themself. I did ask my husband about pre-nup before we married, he said he would never do it to me, he aslo mentioned only rich people in states do that, he is not rich. Last night after I read this post I asked his opinion, he said love is love, business is business. He know his love for me, so he never worry about losing me. Yesterday, he also mentioned put my name on the title of our house, he told me he dont want me no place to live if something wrong with him. Love is mutual men, what he did makes me love him more. I am happy our life here as we love each other!!

 

Paula:

 

Thanks for the input. It is always good to hear the women's perspective.

[jim_julian]

We live in California. We were married in California. We have a pre nup.

 

She has assets in China that make a middle class life there possible. I have considerable assets in the US.

 

We discussed a prenup before I asked her to marry me.

 

I had a pre nup drafted in California and brought it to China where we had a Notary translation. (That's a story in itself. If anyone is contemplating that PM me)

 

In California she consulted privately with two family law lawyers, one Chinese, one western.

 

At the pre nup signing she was represented by her lawyer and a court certified Chinese translator translated.

 

We are very happily married and intend to stay that way for the rest of our lives.

 

Remember, a pre nup only comes into play when you are getting divorced. In California, my personal opinion is that every couple should have a pre nup.

 

I also believe that a pre nup needs to be planned well in advance with a process similar to that cited above.

[Blacksheep]

With a contract BEFORE you get married is like buying insurance BEFORE you have an accident.

 

You get it anticipating the worst and also hoping for the best!

[SirLancelot]

seems that Americans live in s dream world when it comes to relationships and Chinese live in the practical world.

. . .

Is a Pre-Nup in the Chinese culture considered normal or an insult?

How would a Chinese Lady respond to a Pre-Nup?

Is this over-reaction to being protected?

 

well.. I do tend to think the USC is a little more in a dream world but when it comes to the financials I'll admit that USCs are sensitive on the prenup issue... suddenly we get practical ourselves and roll up our financial sleeves .

 

The problem I have with it in regards to chinese ladies is that some will be insulted since it questions the relationship; anything that questions the relationship is not going to be a good thing usually. It's talking divorce before the marriage has occurred .

 

I'm sure that some do go through with it and sign it, etc.. I do have a hard time believing that the other side of this sees it as a good thing or is happy to do it as if they thought of it first. Frankly, some will go through with it for the sake that it was asked to be done, IMO... I don't logically see this issue as something that the other side would normally bring up first or say, "dear... I want to give you a birthday present while your waiting for me to come to the US.. I'll give you a prenup"...

 

Anyway.. it's a personal decision that affects two people... good luck.

 

Lot's of comments were in this thread...

Prenup's Advice

 

With due respect to Don and Jim_Julian, this is a non-starter. There is no debate among the Chinese culture or Chinese community. Pre-nups are absolutely not a positive to Chinese women.

 

Will there be some Chinese women who will accept signing a pre-nup? Of course. As David alludes to above, they are more or less forced into it, as if they reject the pre-nup then the man tells her to kiss off.

 

Pre-nups by their origin were designed to protect the wealthier of the two parties. In the VAST majority of Sino-American marriages, it is always the USC man who is relatively wealthier than the Chinese SO. Yes, there are a few cases where the Chinese lady might be relatively wealthier than the USC, but the vast majority (probably 90-95%) are with USC being more wealthy. Given that, the Chinese ladies who sign the pre-nups are only doing it out of fear that the marriage wouldn't take place if they don't sign.

 

There are plenty of reports on 001 that the Chinese ladies complain to other Chinese ladies about their American SO's forcing them to sign a pre-nup or the marriage wouldn't take place. They sign and complain about it with other Chinese women.

 

I'm glad to read that Jim_Julian and his spouse mutually agreed to sign a pre-nup--given Jim's terrible divorce, it doesn't surprise me he would want to protect himself--but it would be unwise to believe that the Chinese ladies are OK with the concept of pre-nups. They absolutely are NOT okay with it. Again, Jim, I don't mean to suggest you forced your wife into any pre-nups. If your wife has sufficient assets in China to protect, I'm sure she mutually accepted the pre-nup, but the majority of Chinese SO are quite poor relatively to the USC and they do NOT like the idea at all.

 

A pre-nup is a loss of face to the Chinese woman. If means she only gets a little bit if there's a divorce. Not only is she divorced, she also gets screwed by getting less than what the law normally allows. Many of these ladies think they have no choice in this matter. It's either sign or no marriage. So they reluctantly sign.

[SheLikesME?]

Just stay in TX and never move to CA or PA. You'll be fine

 

At least here it is only half of what you accumalate while married. What you had before is yours or what she had is hers. No alimony except re-education for her to re-enter work force, if she didn't work during marriage. Problem with som eof these states is the lady leaves a guy and shackes up with another and never marries him specifically to get alimony from her ex as well as child support. I have a friend that his ex should be in prison for her cheating and robbery in my opinion. Heck the fact she was cheating for 2 years has no bearing in PA. At least in TX if she is doing that you might get another 10% of the split if you fight it. Also the lawyers just seem to try to get divorces over with here and work by volume, unlike what I hear from the years of settlement conflicts in CA.

[SheLikesME?]

Pre-Nup......................

 

Is that what they do just before getting snipped??