Learned something new

[Tony_onrock]

Just found out this morning our new Nanny reads the Bible ( hand copied) secretly every night after the baby goes to sleep. I guess she was afraid we would object.

She had to quit school cause she could not pay the 9.27 RMB school costs. She was forced to abort ( literally bound and taken to the hospital ) one six months baby and one 8 month baby. Her face was scarred when she used some defective cosmetics.

The husband and wife both works 6 days a week, trying to save money to buy a house back home so that when their son grows up, he can get married. It would take them another 7 years.

I always knew there is another, much darker side of China, but never realized how close it is.

[SheLikesME?]

Sometimes I think because Chinese seem to complain little, or at least just keep their head down adn work, it just does not look like their is a problem. My wife mentions problems seldom, but when she does it does not mean she complains. She just solves the problem. It means work hard if necissary.

 

Yeah we had a bit of a comment session here in CFL if there was or was not religious freedom in China. Truth is they do not have anywhere near the freedom as we understand it. Abortions are something else again, but like war some things are not your fault. But even if she had chosen an abortion the government influence and social influence is there as a contributor.

 

Pretty sweet kind hearted people overall. Maybe supression does that to you. I noticed soem good folks in Spain as well and they had a dictator for so long.

 

???????????

[david_dawei]

Sometimes I think because Chinese seem to complain little, or at least just keep their head down adn work, it just does not look like their is a problem.  My wife mentions problems seldom, but when she does it does not mean she complains.  She just solves the problem.  It means work hard if necissary.

240294[/snapback]

I agree...

 

M. Scott Peck's well known book, The Road Less Traveled, starts with, "Life is difficult". I suspect if he lived a few years in china, he would of started it differently. Maybe, "Life is hard work". The chinese are accustomed to expecting hard work in their life and the need to 'bear' it (interesting similarity to christian call to bear burdens).

 

Physically bearing it is not a welcomed idea in the US, although we have our closets of issues.. drug use, crime, etc.

 

I would think in a land of over a billion people, you must find some dark sides. Probably would be alot darker if they had the freedom to reveal it all. For now, they bear it as part of their existence.... in a way that we cannot...

[SheLikesME?]

David,

It is interesting you bring the Christian religions into this, because the way my wife lives is a perfect example of how I am taught to live in scripture and at church, even down to having my house paid for and a savings acount and no debt and things put away incase of an emergency and higher education and knowledge of a trade for survival incase of layoffs or health issues. Oh yes and excersize and proper eating. The list goes on and on. Very good correlation.

 

As time goes by I do hear the talk of the difficulties and it obviously bothers them, but they bear it and work through the situation. They make the hard decisions too. Now this decision making spills over into work, which is drastically different than the Koreans and Japanese who need aproval of things by an American company, in my business, or they take over a year to make a decision and that is by commitee so they do not lose their job if wrong. This is off topic though.

 

Yes so I am thankful for some of the protests in China whether we misunderstand all the motives or not. There was still plenty of protests for more personal freedom. In fact they have not been exposed to the rest of the world enough to know all the things they are missing. It will be good and bad once they know all, but progress will and is comming it looks like.

Doug

[david_dawei]

David,

It is interesting you bring the Christian religions into this, because the way my wife lives is a perfect example of how I am taught to live in scripture and at church, even down to having my house paid for and a savings acount and no debt and things put away incase of an emergency and higher education and knowledge of a trade for survival incase of layoffs or health issues. Oh yes and excersize and proper eating. The list goes on and on. Very good correlation.

 

As time goes by I do hear the talk of the difficulties and it obviously bothers them, but they bear it and work through the situation. They make the hard decisions too. Now this decision making spills over into work, which is drastically different than the Koreans and Japanese who need aproval of things by an American company, in my business, or they take over a year to make a decision and that is by commitee so they do not lose their job if wrong. This is off topic though.

 

Yes so I am thankful for some of the protests in China whether we misunderstand all the motives or not. There was still plenty of protests for more personal freedom. In fact they have not been exposed to the rest of the world enough to know all the things they are missing. It will be good and bad once they know all, but progress will and is comming it looks like.

Doug

 

I think this goes back to their approach in life is to 'do' and not 'talk about it'... I call it their "do" ethic. Bearing it is a part of it. My wife examplifies a christian ethic stronger than most conservative christians I meet in my life... they want to talk about how to live; she just lives the ethic.

 

But the bearing part is interesting to me.. and I'm sure this is a long history to it... but in modern times, it's plain to see. I've talked to acupuncturist and massage people who talk of how different one must perform this task in the US, since most cannot 'bear' the pressure of it...

 

I recall one study done; a US doctor wanted to re-produce the effects of acupuncture in a control group in the US.. when things didn't work out, the doctor (to her credit) asked the author, chinese acupuncture doctor, if this would of worked better with a chinese control group !!

 

The chinese doctor told him two simple truths:

1) Yes, the chinese control group would of done better since the chinese believe they are part of a process (or procedure) and 'buy' into their part of it.. they are partners with the treatment or healing.

2) No, the chinese control group would not of done any better since the study was of such a low level of pain required of the patients that chinese would not need acupuncture for such trivial stuff... They bear this everyday at much higher levels...

[NewDay2006]

I recently read a book called the Heavenely Man... it is about a Chinese man who followed Christ in China and all the problems and persercution he met because of it.... the book's time period I beleive ends around 9/11. I was a very interesting book. Church is not as open in many parts of China as it is in Bigger cities and even then, there is a lot of restriction. The American Church I went to in Shanghai, was mostly just singing hymns, not much preaching of the Word. Just the same it was a good experience for me.

[change2marrow]

I recently read a book called the Heavenely Man... it is about a Chinese man who followed Christ in China and all the problems and persercution he met because of it.... the book's time period I beleive ends around 9/11. I was a very interesting book. Church is not as open in many parts of China as it is in Bigger cities and even then, there is a lot of restriction. The American Church I went to in Shanghai, was mostly just singing hymns, not much preaching of the Word. Just the same it was a good experience for me.

 

From my understanding, all religion is state run and controlled in China. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rogue churches that don't tow the line, but it's really wired to hear "State run church."

[Yuanyang]

I recently read a book called the Heavenely Man... it is about a Chinese man who followed Christ in China and all the problems and persercution he met because of it.... the book's time period I beleive ends around 9/11. I was a very interesting book. Church is not as open in many parts of China as it is in Bigger cities and even then, there is a lot of restriction. The American Church I went to in Shanghai, was mostly just singing hymns, not much preaching of the Word. Just the same it was a good experience for me.

 

From my understanding, all religion is state run and controlled in China. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rogue churches that don't tow the line, but it's really wired to hear "State run church."

 

Ever heard about the Church of England?

 

the Vatican

 

Iran

[Dennis143]

There is a woman who attends my ESL class. I recently asked her if she atttended church in China and how she found Christ. She told me that the word of Christ is passed on through word of mouth and that Bibles are shared. They meet in homes and will often have marathon prayer meetings that may go on for days. It was not uncommon for her to be in prayer 12 hours daily. I asked her what would she (they) be praying for, for 12 hours? She said they pray for China and for China's government. She then asked me if I would pray for China too.

 

I asked what were the differences between praticing Christianity here vs. China. She says that in China, she then narrows her shoulders, turns sideways in her chair, bows here head, puts her hand over her mouth and mumbles as though she is praying. And, then she says in America, she then raises her hands and starts shouting "Jesus, Jesus, we can shout our praises to Jesus."

[SheLikesME?]

I recently read a book called the Heavenely Man... it is about a Chinese man who followed Christ in China and all the problems and persercution he met because of it.... the book's time period I beleive ends around 9/11. I was a very interesting book. Church is not as open in many parts of China as it is in Bigger cities and even then, there is a lot of restriction. The American Church I went to in Shanghai, was mostly just singing hymns, not much preaching of the Word. Just the same it was a good experience for me.

 

From my understanding, all religion is state run and controlled in China. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rogue churches that don't tow the line, but it's really wired to hear "State run church."

 

Of course we discussed this in another thread some time back, but at least my American church actually has permission to hold meetings as long as the people hold a foreign passport. Now that has been possible for some time in 4 cities I am aware of. My church also now has an all Chinese congregation in Beijing that is NOT controlled by the government. However, no foreigner can attend and the Chinese must be related somehow to a foreigner who is also a member of this church, if I understand it correctly.

 

This allowing Chinese relatives to join in full membership, and attend either the english speaking, or attend the all Chinese only congregation is a relativly new deal they struck in recent years. But we try to do it only the legal way and gain the PRC's trust. One thing brought up to the government of China was the fact that parallel congregations were being held in peoples homes, like Dennis mentions. So little by little it gets better over there.

[Dan R]

China like Japan has an aversion to foreign religions (primarily Christianity). Both experienced 16th and 17th century European invasions that used each country's priests to get in, ship weapons and foment civil war. China was colonized and Japan sealed the country for 230 years to prevent a similar fate.

 

Hardly surprising that the government doesn't trust foreign churches.

[SheLikesME?]

China like Japan has an aversion to foreign religions (primarily Christianity). Both experienced 16th and 17th century European invasions that used each country's priests to get in, ship weapons and foment civil war. China was colonized and Japan sealed the country for 230 years to prevent a similar fate.

 

Hardly surprising that the government doesn't trust foreign churches.

 

Yep that is why we have so many Mexican's, and other South & Central Americans, speaking Spanish, which is not their native tongue.

[Dennis143]

China like Japan has an aversion to foreign religions (primarily Christianity). Both experienced 16th and 17th century European invasions that used each country's priests to get in, ship weapons and foment civil war. China was colonized and Japan sealed the country for 230 years to prevent a similar fate.

 

Hardly surprising that the government doesn't trust foreign churches.

 

Yep that is why we have so many Mexican's, and other South & Central Americans, speaking Spanish, which is not their native tongue.

 

Hmmm, let me get this right. So, my ancestry is Scots/Irish/French and I speak English instead of Gaelic or French means what exactly?

[SheLikesME?]

China like Japan has an aversion to foreign religions (primarily Christianity). Both experienced 16th and 17th century European invasions that used each country's priests to get in, ship weapons and foment civil war. China was colonized and Japan sealed the country for 230 years to prevent a similar fate.

 

Hardly surprising that the government doesn't trust foreign churches.

 

Yep that is why we have so many Mexican's, and other South & Central Americans, speaking Spanish, which is not their native tongue.

 

Hmmm, let me get this right. So, my ancestry is Scots/Irish/French and I speak English instead of Gaelic or French means what exactly?

 

Hey Dennis, I don't know? Were your people ever conqured by an army in the name of Christ during the crusades?

 

Anyway I was referring to the fact that most hispanics are really Native Americans (Indians). Sure some have true Spanish or European blood, but few do. The old Padre's sorta had them burn and destroy all their symbols of their own culture, taught them Spanish and stoped their own language and things. So many claim to be Cathollic still of course, whether active or not. Whether for their own good or not is maybe another issue, but I see the similarity, and especially if money or robery of their jewels or metals was involved if they had such. I always thought this and new it in some studies, but now there is an interesting film on this in the visitors center in San Antonio, at the one mission still in tact down there. Not the Alamo, but the other one that still has all the walls and things the way it used to be. Hmm, again maybe not a good similarity because it depends on whether one thinks it was a bad thing or not that happened in the lower part of the America's

[change2marrow]

the Vatican

 

Iran

 

Ever heard about the Church of England?

The state doesn't run/control as it's the other way around.

Edited September 5, 2006 by change2marrow (see edit history)