Cultural Differences

[frank1538]

By way of background, KK, my step daughter, got pregnant shortly after the family arrived. She and her man did not get married but have lived in the basement apartment since. He's been a pretty good provider, but Jingwen has informed me that they are splitting.

 

The father has agreed to pay some child support (GA's guidelines would put it at about 20% of his gross). KK will assume legal custody and has agreed to some visitation - all of which will be reduced to a written agreement.

 

Now for the cultural divide. Jingwen wants to take the baby (1 year old) to China and have her older sister care for him. My view is that it's time for KK (chronological age is 23, psychological age is about 15) to grow up, get a job, and quit completely depending on her mother and relatives to take care of the baby. Currently, Jingwen cares for the baby daily while KK goes to ESL classes. What has precipitated the issue is that Jingwen is headed back to China for a couple of months to do some house hunting, so KK will be on her own, at least during this period.

 

KK has had it very easy, but I expressed my view that she's the custodial mother and she has to take care of the baby. We will continue to provide support as needed, but the primary responsibility is hers, not her mom's. I think the baby should remain in the US and KK should use some of the child support for daycare so that she can finish her schooling and then get a job. Jingwen wants to pack him off to be raised in China.

 

I recognize that it's not uncommon for Chinese family members to raise the relatives' kids, but something sticks in my craw when it means sending the kid to China for who knows how long. I would much prefer to keep the kid here in America. Needless to say, KK will do what her mother says, and I will generally do what Jingwen wants when it comes to family matters, but...

 

Should I dig my heels in?

[Two-Trees]

By way of background, KK, my step daughter, got pregnant shortly after the family arrived.  She and her man did not get married but have lived in the basement apartment since.  He's been a pretty good provider, but Jingwen has informed me that they are splitting.

 

The father has agreed to pay some child support (GA's guidelines would put it at about 20% of his gross).  KK will assume legal custody and has agreed to some visitation - all of which will be reduced to a written agreement.

 

Now for the cultural divide.  Jingwen wants to take the baby (1 year old) to China and have her older sister care for him.  My view is that it's time for KK (chronological age is 23, psychological age is about 15) to grow up, get a job, and quit completely depending on her mother and relatives to take care of the baby.  Currently, Jingwen cares for the baby daily while KK goes to ESL classes.  What has precipitated the issue is that Jingwen is headed back to China for a couple of months to do some house hunting, so KK will be on her own, at least during this period.

 

KK has had it very easy, but I expressed my view that she's the custodial mother and she has to take care of the baby.  We will continue to provide support as needed, but the primary responsibility is hers, not her mom's.  I think the baby should remain in the US and KK should use some of the child support for daycare so that she can finish her schooling and then get a job.  Jingwen wants to pack him off to be raised in China.

 

I recognize that it's not uncommon for Chinese family members to raise the relatives' kids, but something sticks in my craw when it means sending the kid to China for who knows how long.  I would much prefer to keep the kid here in America.  Needless to say, KK will do what her mother says, and I will generally do what Jingwen wants when it comes to family matters, but...

 

Should I dig my heels in?

227993[/snapback]

Choose your battles very carefully...

 

From what I read the child is in no distress, is being raised by a tight family, you are not the father, and are not being asked to pay the bills.

 

Sorry to be so blunt... but are you really sure you have a dog in this fight?

[warpedbored]

Tough call Frank but considering the child has lived in your home since birth you must be very attached to him. If he is sent off to live in China you will be deprived of regular contact with your grandchild. There may be other legal ramifications as well. The child's father who has visitation rights could probably stop her from sending the child to China. You could egg him on and make him the fall guy. There are also visa issues. The child is an american citizen and would have to renew the visa periodically for an extended stay in China. Two trees has the right of it on picking your battles but if it were me I would have to fight this one. Good luck Frank.

[Dennis143]

I just wonder, how can day-care be better for the child than being raised and nurtured 24/7 by family vs. strangers?

 

If it were me, (thank God it’s not, having NEVER having children of my own) I would offer a compromise that once the child is old enough to start grade school, it will return to America and KK will start accepting her parental obligation and the child will still be young enough where learning English quickly will not be a problem.

[Mick]

You are right when you say that many Chinese couples pack their kid off to China to be raised. I have known quite a few who have done so. As for our situation, it was never really an option to send Salina back to China to have Li's parents raise her. Both of us would miss her way too much. I tend to agree with you Frank in the sense that the girl needs to learn responsibility. Chinese parents often tend to keep kids under their control deep into adulthood. This is both a cultural issue and a control issue. At least that was my take on it during the years I lived in China.

 

As for your situation, you have to weigh carefully how deeply you feel about all this. If you feel very strongly, then dig your heels in. If not, then let it slide. My feeling is that the child really cannot lose in this situation. He will be well cared for in China, that's for sure. On the other hand, if he stays here, he will have a good life as well. So I don't think he is going to suffer a lot, one way or the other.

 

Do pay attention to Jingwen's feelings, even if you don't agree. She is the mother and a child, no matter how old, only has one mother. Good luck. It is not an easy decision.

[GaryandSherry]

My 2 cents for what thats worth!! First and foremost, I understand this is just in the planning stages and the boyfriend hasn't moved, or am I wrong? Second we all have spats with our spouse and at one point would rather run than fight. Is it possible this is what is happening to KK? It just might not become a reality. Third, if it does happen, she has to remember, she is moving a US citizen out of the US, without the consent of the father. If he is in fact paying child support, he will have visitation rights. No legal system would allow her to move this child to another city let alone another country without first getting permission from the father. Bottom line is play a wait and see game and if push comes to shove, get the father of the baby on your side. Game over!!!

[frank1538]

To Two-Trees. Jingwen's kids haven't had a father since toddlerhood. Both consider me their dad. Jingwen and I currently provide virtually all of the caregiving for David, our grandson, and as an extended family, Jingwen and I sit at the top. Her decision is usually final, but she will not make a decision without discussing it with me first. I could tell her that there's no way David will go to China, and she would abide by that fiat as would KK. However, I'm not the kind of guy who would exercise this authority in such a fashion.

 

KK is too young psychologically to make the decision on her own. If it were her decision, she'd opt for sending the child to China because it's the easy way out. Despite her age, she is still a child.

 

To Gary. It certainly sounds like a fait accompli. Apparently, this has been going on for a while, and the lust, at least for KK, has long since faded.

 

To Carl. Yep, we're an extended family, and Jingwen and I are esentially raising David. If David were to go to China, a resident visa would likely be required. As for the father, I think the lack of visitation would not bother him, but I'm sure he'd want to cut back/eliminate any child support.

 

To Mick and Dennis. Even recognizing the cultural differences between Americans and Chinese, it is difficult to be totally objective. We Americans are raised to be self reliant, self sufficient, and independent, and some of this upbringing tells me to push KK to learn the responsibility of being a parent. On the other hand, I can't argue that it would be worse for David to go to China. There he'd be surrounded by Jingwen's family, and it would certainly be a nurturing environment.

 

If David stayed in America, we are still faced with the issue of Jingwen wanting to take on much of the responsibility that should be KK's. Jingwen still gets up in the morning with David, feeds him, and cares for him while KK is in school. When KK comes home, Jingwen fixes her something to eat and watches David. When KK wants to take her afternoon nap, Jingwen is there to care. Jingwen even gives the baby his evening bath.

 

When Jingwen goes to China in August, I can almost guarantee that KK won't have the foggiest idea of what to do. Again, my western upbringing tells me it's time for KK to grow up, and I really think Jingwen is looking to send the child to China as a way to continue to shelter KK. This is her Chinese upbringing.

[Thomas Promise]

I am slowly and shockingly becoming aware of Chinese parents obsession to help support their young adult children until they marry, even Parents and Grand Children if necessary. We as you know Frank do not accept this very well as Americans. We view this as a recipe for disater.

I also think there would be all kinds of legal problems arising if the Father decided to say no I do not wish for my child to leave the USA. Plus the fact that your Grandchild is an American Citizen by birth may put a fly in the ointment also.

In your own words use some good old fashion facts and benefits with Jingwen allowing your Granchild to stay here in the USA. Like Two Tree said pick your battles carefully. You may win the battle but lose the war.

Good luck.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Thomas Promise (see edit history)

[tonado]

Frank,

 

It is common for newly arrived Chinese parents to sent the baby child back to China to be raised by family members. Raising a child require the mother to stay home. In order to survive in America, the mother must work to make ends meet. So she can't stay home with the baby. My aunt's brother sent his daughter to China for 4 years. She was back to USA a few years ago and she is fine. She is 10 years old now and she is fluent in Chinese and English.

 

In your case, KK might be better off if she study hard for her ESL classes and continue with school. After that, she may get a decent job. Then she can go back and bring back the baby. Since you said she is like a 15 years old, it would be tough for her to raise a kid and go to school.

[Joanne]

In some sense, generally speaking, Chinese youngsters grow up slower. They are taught to be obedient, are not given much opportunities to learn how to make choices. Taking responsibilities are somewhat taught. Mainly concentrated on completing assigned tasks rather than honor own decisions. It is no surprising consider that the basic unit of Chinese society is family rather than individual. Independence is not appreciated by most parents. (Be aware, according to my definition, a dependent person can be a career achiever. A career achiever is more appreciated.)

 

 

IMO, since KK has immigrated to US, she would better learn living her life American way.

[egolessvegan]

..................Frank:

I think you may have to defer to Jingwen and KK on this one.

Ken

[Joanne]

In some sense, generally speaking, Chinese youngsters grow up slower.  They are taught to be obedient, are not given much opportunities to learn how to make choices.  Taking responsibilities are somewhat taught.  Mainly concentrated on completing assigned tasks rather than honor own decisions.  It is no surprising consider that the basic unit of Chinese society is family rather than individual.  Independence is not appreciated by most parents.  (Be aware, according to my definition, a dependent person can be a career achiever.  A career achiever is more appreciated.)

 

 

IMO, since KK has immigrated to US, she would better learn living her life American way.

228037[/snapback]

To consider the issue in a more practical way. If David stays in US then the situation would be:

1) KK took over almost full responsibility of caring for David;

2) Jingwen stays as the main caregiver;

or

3) KK took over the responsibility but with Jingwen's help always ready at hand.

 

Option 1) is out of the question, because as Jingwen can see that it is better for KK to advance her study so that she can develop better in her career and become financially independent sooner. Thus Jingwen would not allow such a hardship (for KK) to happen.

 

Option 2) is not a good situation, just because Jingwen should give KK a chance to grow up. Plus Jingwen has the right to enjoy more freedom after raring her own kids for so many years. After all, David is KK's son. KK should be the one in charge.

 

Option 3) seems to be an ideal situation. Since I assume that Jingwen will not be seeking employment herself, she will have the ability and drive to lend KK a hand.

 

When started this post, I thought that there are some basis to Jingwen's decision of sending David to China. However, after listing above three options, I cann't see any better argument.

 

If the 2 months Jingwen visiting China could be a problem, why doesn't Jingwen take David along?

Edited July 1, 2006 by Joanne (see edit history)

[Guest pushbrk]

..................Frank:

I think you may have to defer to Jingwen and KK on this one.

Ken

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Frank, I think I would want exactly what you want, if I were in your shoes. I would make my preferences known, as well as the reasons for them and then defer to the blood relatives for decision making.

 

I will say, however that permission from the father in advance is not necessary for this child to travel, unless there is a legal agreement in place specifically stating otherwise. The father would have to know and take action in advance, in order to have any power in the process. Once the Child is in China, he has little if any power.

[LeeFisher3]

Something that may come into play is since the child is a USC it is common that the other parent sign a notarized statement giving permission for the child to be taken out of the country. This came about due to custody battles and getting the child out of the reach of a US court.

 

You might look into this one as it may drive the entire decission.

[JamesnYuHong]

Frank,

In philosophy I agree with you. However, I would let Jingwen and KK make the decision. You could state your preference, but in a neutral way, not too forceful.

I do like Dennis' idea, though.