Chinese people are very disorderly

[Dan R]

Perhaps the adaptability of some Americans (stress on some) is the result of the decades of embarassing publicity for the "Ugly American Tourist". As Chinese travelers become aware of a negative image some will change. The majority I run into abroad eat at MacDonald regularly or other American places. They keep as much of their country around them as possible. A very popular lunch place in Tijuana, Mexico for Americans going down for the day is a lunch counter at Woolworths. There is security in having familiar things and most need that security.

[xulei601]

My observation was that they know where to spit and where not to spit...  We visited gardens, parks, etc and clearly they were kept clean and people did not do any of the littering, etc that I saw once you step outside of these areas I was in.

154266[/snapback]

You didn't also notice the legions of men and women whose job it is to clean the parks and gardens, and of course the streets? They would not be there if there was no litter to pick up. I've seen soda cans crushed into the rocks of Suzhou's meditative gardens, popsicle wrappers intentionally set adrift on Kunming Lake in the Summer Palace, and college students spit on the classroom floor. Not much is sacred when you've got a sinus to clean or some garbage to dispose of.

[sylinchinastill]

I've found that there is a big divide on perspective when you visit and live somewhere. And I stand by the fact that spitting and pushing are not cultural. Ask your women- they don't think these things are cultural either. My husband told me something funny about the new Disneyland in Hong Kong... That people from the mainland were doing things like someone relieved themself in the sink and stuff- so I looked and found this article- the last line relates to our topic... http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail....&d_str=20050913

[xulei601]

I've found that there is a big divide on perspective when you visit and live somewhere. And I stand by the fact that spitting and pushing are not cultural. Ask your women- they don't think these things are cultural either. My husband told me something funny about the new Disneyland in Hong Kong... That people from the mainland were doing things like someone relieved themself in the sink and stuff- so I looked and found this article- the last line relates to our topic... http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail....&d_str=20050913

154287[/snapback]

That reminds of a story my friend in Hong Kong told me. While waiting in line at the bank, somebody entered and went straight the the front of the line. My friend walked to him, tapped him on the shoulder, and the led him the by the arm to the back of the line while others lightly applauded. Another man at the back of the line advised him "You're not in the mainland anymore."

 

So if it's not cultural, what is it? Just poor upbringing? Or the result of having to push for everything or risk being squeezed out by others? I think it is primarily related to population, as so many of China's problems are. As was stated already, most people seem to recognize it as improper behavior, but when 30 people are rushing to fill the last remaining space on a bus, that can quickly be forgotten. By me as well. But maybe I'm just a product of the culture

[jim_julian]

That reminds of a story my friend in Hong Kong told me. While waiting in line at the bank, somebody entered and went straight the the front of the line. My friend walked to him, tapped him on the shoulder, and the led him the by the arm to the back of the line while others lightly applauded. Another man at the back of the line advised him "You're not in the mainland anymore."

154289[/snapback]

Yep that pushing to the front of the bank line or, worse yet trying to push you away from the window when you are already conducting a transaction, does get to me a bit.

 

I'm very concious of not doing anything in China that could get me in trouble or give a bad impression in public. Luckily I'm bigger than most Chinese and can usually thwart these bank attempts by judicious repositioning of my body.

 

I remind myself constantly that I'm seeing this through a cultural filter ... sigh

[bearbear]

Wow!?Either the GZ residents are very different or all the places I've been in China are largely populated by non-locals.

 

153986[/snapback]

No, it's just an example of the Cantonese superiority complex. So many people come to Guangdong from other provinces, there is a very clear line between locals and "beilao." Beilao is a term that literally means "old notherner" but has much more negative connotations (just as the Cantonese "gweilou" [foreign devil/ghost] has lost a lot of negativity over the years). It implies the person is dirty and ignorant, has bad manners, dresses their babies in split-crotch pants...a country bumpkin or peasant. The funny thing is, a Guangdong person will derogatorily call an outsider beilao even if they come from Yunnan or Hainan (south of Guangdong)! And they say the Shanghainese are uppity......

 

I just re-read this, and I hope you don't take offense to this, Bearbear. It's not a criticism of your SO or her family, just a general description of what I have learned and observed. I really think it's an ingrained response and most people wouldn't recognize it as some form of discrimination (except us uber-sensitive westerners). And really, who are we kidding - I learned to spit by watching the Cantonese!

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Xulei, I understand what you're saying, and I noticed that too. Cantonese is same as Shanghai people - always thought they're the best, and they hate each other.

 

Cantonese love to give nicknames to outsiders (out of the city, out of the province, out of the country). They call me "MeiCan", "Mei" for American, "Can" for rural people.

[Mark62]

Sorry that I haven't responded after my intitial post. I forgot that I posted in this forum, and today is the first I saw and read other's posts. I'm slow at typing up posts, and don't get enough sleep as it is, or I would post a lot if I didn't work.

 

When I said in general about the Chinese people, I should have said in general about their culture, but the people determine how the culture will be, but the people are the way there are because it worked in general for them in the past. But if China didn't change their ways in the last 100 years, and more so in the last 20, then they would be more like they were a thousand years ago, and maybe not exist as a nation or people if they didn't change along with the rest of the world to survive.

 

Also, I'm together with my SO not because she's Chinese, but who SHE is. In general I dislike America because it (the government) kills and terrorize people, but that doesn't mean I dislike all the actions of each individaul American. I wonder why I have to explain some things ("spell things out") to some people. Though I know my posts aren't that great.

 

Right or wrong, and this is what people in general seem to want, that the world is moving toward doing things more "orderly", and that the smartest will survive better than the strongest in the future. I think doing things more orderly creates less waste in general, and pollution, which increases quality of life. And societies are based on orderly events.

Edited September 15, 2005 by Mark62 (see edit history)

[Dan R]

Culture is a majority norm. It changes with the times. Just read the literature of any country from over 200 years ago. Check out the cookbooks also to see how diet changes with the culture.

 

Nothing is static.

[Trigg]

Read up on social darwinism--must read stuff

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

....Right or wrong, and this is what people in general seem to want, that the world is moving toward doing things more "orderly", and that the smartest will survive better than the strongest in the future. ...

154415[/snapback]

I wonder what Mayor Nagin would say to that

Edited September 15, 2005 by fitnlivly (see edit history)

[xulei601]

Read up on social darwinism--must read stuff

154434[/snapback]

Especially Chapter 17 (Boarding Busses) and Chapter 32 (Crossing Streets). If you have the Italian translation, there are six additional chapters devoted solely to buying train tickets. Very practical knowledge for anybody visiting China.

[chef4u]

Too spit or not.....too push or not.....now I am confused. What came first. The spit - the push or maybe the puke.

[Dan R]

Thirty years ago it was acceptable for men to urinate in the open sewers. Now in the big cities when you leave the bar you have to find a restroom. Is this evolution or devolution?

[jim_julian]

Now in the big cities when you leave the bar you have to find a restroom.

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You do?

 

hmmm .... I'm in trouble ...

[yankie]

Well, I totally understand Mark62.  I sometimes complain to my SO and his friends and family about several things that I saw on the street:

 

1. People spitting on the street and/or public places;

2. Cast garbage anywhere;

3. Cut lines;

4. Bad driving manner;

 

They all agree with me, and they can't stand these either.

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There is a news today in China that 10 bad behaviors were rated online which are regarded as 10 worst behaviors and should be improved in China. The four bad behaviors listed here are all included. So many Chinese also think they are very bad and hope people can improve their behaviors. We really feel shameful with those bad behaviors especially in front of a foreigner. I'm a Chinese. I don't think it's because of cultural difference or because of massive population in China. There is more people in density in Hong Kong, but Hong Kong people are much better at following rules. I think it is because of poor management and education. Chinese are trying to be better with their behavior, but some guys here said they would follow Chinese to cut lines and even went further. I'm astonished with what they said. I think protecting yourself is one issue, following others to do bad things is another issue. Maybe some guys here will spit on the street and cast garbage anywhere in China if they stay here a little longer.