blennon

(Feels good to be posting to this issues forum rather than the "we're still waiting" forum) The SARS situation has me thinking about health coverage for my fiancee between the time she lands on US soil and the time I can add her (as a spouse) to my coverage. The US government clearly recognizes her as my dependent, regardless of her marital status - but I'm certain my policy doesn't have a clause for "dependent, soon to be spouse". I've been checking out international travel insurance (15days - 12 months)... Search engines have sofar turned up unimpressive results. Hoping CandleForLove members can provide some recommendations: Websites? Coverage Providers? Gotch Ya's? Any thoughts?

We're literally hours away from securing our visa. Ying dropped off her paperwork this morning (Tuesday in GZ) and will report back at 4pm to pick-up her visa. Don't know yet if I'll travel to Beijing to escort her home - popular opinion is "Don't Travel"... but I'm clinging to the option. I was shocked by this (Monday) morning's BBC News reports that China SARS cases was increased 10-fold over the weekend. I was troubled by the decision to travel this week from Beijing to GZ, when we could have waited a week to see if the SARS thing quieted down. Good News is: Ying reports that GZ locals seem relatively unconcerned about SARS (compared to Beijing) - as if they've already gotten over the hump. She said she actually felt a little silly being "over dressed for SARS protection". GZ Consulate IS open for business and is processing cases as they come in. I don't believe SARS is having a significant impact on case processing. Has anyone heard any news regarding U.S. Quarantines? I've heard about airport officials checking temperatures and denying boarding privledges to passengers suspected of being sick, but I haven't heard much about what international arrivals are being asked to do upon U.S. arrival.

My experience was: I consistently got the rude lady early in the week (Monday's and Tuesday's) and I consistently got the pleasant lady later in the week (Thursday's and Friday's). When I asked to speak with the pleasant lady on a Monday, I was told she doesn't work on that day. ( Please don't gang up on the the pleasant lady. )

Correct. We were marked "hold" (still don't know why), but we got cleared (still don't know how). Been off-line a couple days... here's the latest on our case: - March 25: DOS sent electronic "hold cleared" notification to GZ. - March 30: We received our EMS (yes, they delivery on Sunday in China) - April 1: US Gov. says: "non-essential" consulate staff can go home. - April 2: GZ emailed to inform us we'd be recieving our EMS soon. - April 4: DOS called to inform us we'd be recieving our EMS soon. - April 4: Confirmed - GZ to remain open (unless SARS thing gets worse). - Week of April 14 or 21: Anticipated travel (Beijing to GZ) for visa.

Responding to the two SMS messages above... First, the easy one: Visa Type is "fiancee (K1 visa)" On the 2nd item... This is going to be very long-winded so bear with me and let me emphasize it is MY INTERPRETATION ONLY - I don't stake a claim to it's accuracy and would welcome alternative perspectives and corrections: I'll summarize first: I think we've got consular officers in GZ and visa office public inquery agents in D.C. with NIVCAPS and IVACS systems between them. Then, we've got the CLASS system between GZ and all the D.C. agencies who perform namechecks. In addition, we've got a consular point-of-contact in the Visa Office who compiles and pushes out CLASS system summaries to GZ in spreadsheet format, and a Visa Office supervisor who DOES have the authority to communicate (internally) beyond the limits of a public inquery agents. Again, I can't stress enough - I'm putting pieces together. I welcom 2nd opinions. Here's the long form: I'm not sure what people mean by DOS (Department of State) versus (CA) consular affairs. To be clear, "Consular Affairs" and the "Visa Office" are both organizations under the umbrella of DoS - the State Department. Consular Affairs provide domestic support to the Consulates... and the Visa Office supports visa processing. Guangzhou happens to have a Consulate with a Visa processing unit... it's all gray area, but the key is: the organziational roles are different - they work together like a financial office and engineering department might: there not always on the same page. Now, specifically when you call Washington, you are calling the Visa Office. And within the Visa Office, you are specifically speaking to members of their Public Inquiry staff. These are men and women who sit in front of a computer monitor and key in your Case number, then regurgitate what ever shows up on their screen. I'm GUESSING the systems referenced by public inquery are: "NIVCAPS - Nonimmigrant Visa Computer Assisted Processing System" and "IVACS - Immigrant Visa Information System" (I could be totally off base here.) The consular officer's in Guangzhou actually enter the updates that appear on Public Inquery monitors. (So it is "officially" GZ who changes your case status from Pending to Hold to Approved.) Where does GZ get their information? From another team (not Public Inquery) in the Visa Office and from other agencies outside the visa office and perhaps, even outside the Department of State. I believe there are Visa office staff members responsible for case flow between agencies. I'm speculating based on a congressional testimony I read that makes me think there are Visa Office agents assigned to support a collection of consulates. So, while we talk to what-ever Public Inquery agent answers the phone, Guangzhou has a single-point-of-contact in the visa office for all their inqueries. Guangzhou gets two pieces of data from Washington that prompts them to make status changes. One item is an excel spreadsheet that contains a summary of case updates (several cases listed with dispositions). I think this spreadsheet comes from the consulate's assigned point-of-contact in the visa office. I think the point-of-contact compiles the summary report to make the consulate agent's job easier. Where's the compiled report coming from? I think it's a system called "CLASS: Consular Lookout and Support System". CLASS is "the Department of State's name checking system for visa and passport applicants that is designed to interconnect with all Consular Affairs automated systems at posts worldwide that require name checks". (That's the verbatim definition). The second item GZ needs is an electronic memo for each item (Visa Case) listed in the excel-spreadsheet. Memos provide informational details supporting the case's current disposition. Any name checking agency can supply a disposition. I believe the memos are stored in CLASS and the summary report prompts GZ to go look for the memos - (apparantly the memos aren't easily searched on, and the excel spreadhseet serves as a type of manual search-index). If everything works correctly, GZ should print the memo and file a hardcopy with your case... then (I'm speculating again and would love to get further clarification) GZ maybe updates IVACS or NIVCAPS with the status change.... which would bring us back to Public Inquery's status screen and your phone call. Public Inquery agents probably know the agents who support the consulates, but the people whose role it is to answer public calls and serve as a buffer do not also have the task of processing visa requests. (Don't hate them for not knowing what's happening on the other side of cubical wall. ) That's what visa office supervisors are for - they can get you over the cubical wall.

Woo Hoo!!! Please update our (blennon) status to: EMS Recieved - March 29 It is a happy, happy day... more later (it's past bedtime).

We received (what sounded like it could turn into) good news. A DOS supervisor tracked down the issues behind our hold status and, coincidently, a "colleague just received the information they were waiting on" (sounded a little suspicious, but I'm not arguing - it also sounds like progress). We've been asked to wait a couple days for the electronic notification to be processed by Guangzhou, and we've alerted our contact at the consulate who is watching for it. The DOS Public Inquiry system hasn't been updated yet and we don't actually know what our case status is getting updated to (or if the DOS message is just a clarification comment to GZ), but we're hopeful that the status will change in our favor as a result. Holding our hats, but not our breath... yet. -B&Y

When my fiancee and I spoke with my Guangzhou contact last Monday, we asked about the war's impact on their services. We were told that public office hours would be restricted (scaled back, but not eliminated) and that visa processing efforts would continue.

Agreed. Well said. Period. Thou shall never assume...... Period? More like (open ended): "period, period, period"... Thursday was my day to get feedback from Guangzhou on my "H" status. At the end of the last chapter in this saga, I'd just been told by DOS inquiry that the ball was clearly in Guangzhou's court and not in Washington's. Here's what I heard (learned?) today: Guangzhou DID locate the memo that led to my fiancee's case status change. The memo was coded with a message (or a series of characters?) that indicates it IS on HOLD and that it IS waiting on action from Guangzhou. I'm told specifically, that the memo is coded with a "Please Resubmit Request" code. However... I'm also told that my contact investigated the situtation further: Apparantly, some time in the recent past a video conference was held between Guangzhou and DOS (Could this have been more recent than the one we know was held at the end of December? I need to find out). In any case, the short of the meeting is: I'm told cases like mine are under review with an (undisclosed) agency in Washington... that, for what ever reason... the system is coding my case as a "Please Resubmit" (which is probably why Public Inquiry says "ball is in Guangzhou's court")... but that Guangzhou says they've discussed the scenerio with DOS and "everyone" agrees there is nothing to resubmit (so Guangzhou is doing nothing)... and even though it's coded as "Resubmit", I can be assured that DOS is on top of it. Good grief!! As if I can be assured of anything except more waiting. My contact speculates that my fiancee has a pretty common (romanized) name and that the hold is probably due to a name match. What couldn't be explained was: If it IS a name match issue, why wasn't the hold coded as such? This story is turning from a novel into a pick-a-path book... next chapter: If DOS says "yeah, we know what GZ is talking about", turn to page 36. If DOS says "we really are waiting for a resubmit", turn to page 1.

Here is the "on-hold" paragraph: Unfortunately, your fiancée's clearance will not be processed as quickly as most others are. A government agency has placed a hold on the process. We are working with the other agency to resolve this issue so that we may process the case to conclusion. However, we expect that a significant amount of time may be required to do so. When Ms. xxxxxxs clearance process is concluded, the Consulate will notify her. It certainly doesn't sound as if the ball is in GZ's court. Rather, it would appear to be bouncing around Washington somewhere. I WILL seek clarification from Guangzhou on the "On Hold" message quoted above. I didn't challenge my consulate contact on all the different status' that might appear on the excel spreadsheet, but I'm currently under the impression that: If a government agency forced a hold on the process, that the disposition column would indicate it specifically... not with a generic "H", but something more specific... like maybe a reference to WHO is holding it. Maybe "H" means "Homeland Security". I guess the real issue is DoS does't define terms like "On-Hold" and "Pending" as clearly as, say, DoD. Without context, "on-hold" could represent any number of things.

Lurker, I do remember seeing the letter you took that "On Hold" paragraph from... I'd really like to forward that back to Guangzhou and ask: How does THIS figure into your investigation? I'd be pleased if anyone could post a link to the original post that contained the full message. PS - Thanks for raining on my day.

I spoke with a visa officer in Guangzhou Monday morning (3pm in China). We discussed at length what the "HOLD" status means and arrived at the conclusion that nobody knows. This conclusion seems to be supported the quoted report that Ms. Harty doesn't know which department is holding the request for more processing (ref: Lurker, March 17 post). The consular agent demonstrated genuine concern and is investigating it for us (all of us). I expect a follow-up email this week. Here's what little I do know: DOS is sending dispositions to Guangzhou in an Excel spreadsheet. One worksheet may contain many case dispostions. It sounds like (don't quote me on this) each line item on the spreadsheet may contain at least a column for name, case number, effective date, and summary status. The actual basis for the summary status is (supposed to be) documented in a different system: Some kind of interdepartmental memo tracking system [An Oracle or mainframe based solution? Or is this just a fancy term for "email"?] There apparently isn't a clear link between the memo systems and the excel spreadsheet. Our visa officer tried searching for the memo that triggered our February 19 status change from "Pending" to "Hold", but couldn't find it. The memo dates may not necessarily coincide between the memo tracking system and the excel spreadsheet... and there is apparantly little or no search facility. The method (using my case as an example) to search the menu tracking system is to manually browse memo headers on or shortly before February 19th. The memo linked to my status change wasn't found... yet. The visa officer was going to spend more time looking further back... into January if necessary. Now, back to what happens with the data in the excel spreadsheet after Guangzhou receives it from DOS. I don't know if it's standard procedure or not, but it sounds like what should happen is: For each line item on the spreadsheet, a consular representative should locate and print the corresponding memo and file a hardcopy in the applicant's casefolder. In practice, this may or may not actually happen consistently. Checking for the memo in the physical casefile is apparantly a cumbersome task. I sincerely believe that's true and did not ask the agent agent to check for it while we waited. (The agent already committed to follow up with me later in the week.) The excel spreadsheet is ALSO used by consular agents to update online case-status in a 3rd system - the same system (i believe) that DOS Visa Office public inquiry department uses to tell us what's going on when we call in. This would explain why, for example, my case status didn't say "On Hold since Feb. 19" when I called March 6, but it did when I called on March 14... it would take time for agents to manually transfer the spreadsheet data into the status-reporting system [An MS Access based solution?]. Here's where things get complicated: Apparantly, these excel spreadsheet line items contain a disposition field that provide some clue about the case's processing status: "Pending", "H", and if I understood the agent correctly, the disposition field will also indicate if a department has flagged the case as having an issue. I specifically used "H" as an example because THAT is what's reportedly in the excel record related to my fiancees case. It is not "Hold"... it is "H". I won't elaborate on my discussion with the agent about the difference between "Pending" and "Hold" except to say that, by the end of the conversation - neither of us was certain if there was a difference, and the consular officer was particularly concerned that there may very well be a difference. The consular officer is going to investigate, because "if 'H' means that the embassy is supposed to be doing something with your case, then it's sat for over three weeks and we haven't touched it." He's going to investigate and get back with us. Fast Forward to just moments ago... As I've been writing this, I've been on hold with DOS... and got through!! The agent I've recently been asking for wasn't working today so I discussed my case with the one who answered the phone. (Inquiry agents really do know more than they let on... it becomes apparent when they argue about what you know.) Here's what I was told today: The Public Inquiry agent first insisted that "Pending" and "On Hold" mean the same thing... something I now believe to be "true" when separated from context. After rounds of asking the same question from every angle, it's my current understanding that "Pending" means it's with with D.C. and "On Hold" means it's with Guangzhou (Cleared DOS name check). What I was told went something like this abreviated version: "Sir, your case is ON HOLD, pending final clearance and printing". [Does that mean it's in Guangzhou or still waiting on a department in Washington D.C.?] "It's with the embassy". [so there's nothing left to be done in Washigton?] "No." [And the only step remaining is that the consulate needs to finish up their end and clear it?] "Sir, I assure you the consulate understands the process." [Well, the agent I spoke to clearly doesn't and was concerned. The agent I spoke to is worried that the consulate has been waiting for action from DOS.] "Sir, that's not true... the consulate understands the process." [And they know the ball is in their court.] "Yes." [And the ball is clearly out of Washington's court?] "Yes." [And Guangzhou understands this?] "Yes." [Well, I'm telling you... the agent I spoke with was genuinely concerned.] "Sir, they know the process." So, based on all I've heard since March 14 (and keeping in mind that I'm still waiting on a follow-up from my contact at the embassy) I'm hopeful that the excel spreadsheet "H" status ("On Hold") really does mean that the ball is in Guangzhou's court... that Guangzhou at some level already realizes the ball is in their court (or that they are about to realize it through the help of one very concerned officer), and that my fiancee's case may be reaching the light at the end of the tunnel. All that being said, please keep the past eight months in perspective: Who knows what we really know? I'll keep y'all posted on what I find out.

Ms. Gentile, Acting Chief of Public Inquiries Division, Visa Services "trusts" that the outcome will not be delayed much longer. Her faith in the system overwhelms me.

Interview Approved: 8/15/02 Latest Resubmit: 12/30/02 Case Status: Pending

Interview Date: August 15 Last Resub: December 30