lele

I wish you the best of luck and hope that your truth and love will legally prevail and emotionally grow. Please keep us posted.

Do you mean the special ladies that you find in Vietnam or Thailand, or the former genetic ladies who have opted to look more masculine (the reverse process)? Does your wife know of your secret desires?? Oh, hmm, maybe she really does!!!

Oh -- I am sorry! I was really excited there at the possibility. ------------- Do not worry though, I have a feeling that September dates will get interviewed in February, not in March or April, if all continues as we have seen these past 2 weeks. -------------- And that timeline, it just proves to me how much the people at GZ like to F^@%ING PULL OUR CHAINS! See, that is how fast it is, on average, over most of the rest of the world. Let me guess, she must be rich! How long do you think Yao Ming had to wait to get his greencard? Do you think he was waiting in the queue 5-10months or more, like the rest of us? So unfair. It is BS like this that makes me want to scream. I am happy for them, but if they can do it, then they can for the *rest* of us too... ****GRRRR******

how did your fiancee get an interview so soon from a september p3? Wow! please tell us! gongxi!!!

Sorry!!!! I am sorry to hear about your experience. *sigh* I hope however, you were able to find something nice or at least historic to see during your travels. However, if anyone is interested, the jarring bus ride from Zhongdian in Yunnan to Kangding (and then onto Chengdu) via litang (all the rest in Sichuan) is absolutely beautiful. However, there is only one bus a day, and it will require 2 overnights (although litang and kangding are both beautiful towns). Security was not an issue, as the population density was low and the people were friendly (at least from what I saw). However, for me, the altitude sickness really was the problem!

Mari, thank you for your kind words! Your situation is *completely unfair* and I wish you the best possible experiences possible until it comes through, and for it to come through as quickly as possible. To others, I want to thank you as well, and to thank everyone here who really does care about the tough situations that we must go through. I am so saddened when I see of the people who try to make it and do not, whether it was because they did not know the person, there was deception, or whether, due to the unfairness of GZ, many people were made to forget the definition of the word love, and instead it turned into hate, frustration, etc. After talking more with my darling, the good news is that she is eating at least some more fruit, so although she is still thin and not feeling well, at least her vitamin level is back to normal so she can stabilize her body! I really want to *urge* the people here to do their best and to explore their options. If I lived in Guangdong or one of those cities that allowed me to use HK, I would never get married in China, but instead use that 7 day pass to go to HK to marry there. Not only would it be faster for you to be reunited, but it would speed the system for the rest of us who have no other choice! Had this been known, the past could have been different, and we could have been together sooner (she is not from a city, but there are other ways, such as the stop over en-route to Thailand to marry in HK). We have learned and grown much, this is true, but we could have and would have done that already in person, since we have already known each other in person for so long! I think that this process *may* be beneficial for a few of the people who have only met one time, whether married or not, or have only met over the internet, or have not lived together. But is frustrates me so much to know that they are judging us and being prejudiced about it too. However, with good people and positive energy coming from here, it helps to at least make the situation a bit better. Thank you all!

Very nicely put Carl. Thank you, yet again for all of your kind words and help.

Well, if you want to really "rough it", try the main east/west drag in SuZhou (a quite wealthy city that also now has the right of its hukou bearers to go to HK on individual visits) near the university late at night. The prostitutes must outnumber the locals by 3:1 and the tourists (there are many there, including Chinese tourists, since it is near one of the premire gardens) by 5:1, and the foreigners by an even larger number yet. They are *aggressive* and will try to do anything they can to get some money (whether it be contractual or not). Plus, most of the shop fronts are merely facades. I have to admit, it was the first time I ever damaged property (as I turned off the lights to go to sleep, the TV turned on and had nude woman dancing on it, the phone started to ring and ring over and over, with women wanting to have sex). I could not get the phone to stop, even by lifting up the receiver. The TV would not turn off either. Both had electrical supplies that fed into the wall without a socket. **D'oh** and the place was nice on the outside and in the reception room, and the room was clean. So, out came the pocket knife, and cut were the phone and TV power lines. Triple locked the door, moved furniture in front of it, and slept. At 6am in the morning, I had grabbed all of my stuff (after showering) and promptly moved myself into a different part of town and place to stay!

I just love my precious, and we are the same, both people, who were lucky to meet since our homes are so far apart, and our lives were in such different places, but together is where we are each best!

Interesting question! I must say that until I was in the 11th grade, I was far too scared to date anyone (although I had wanted to). From that point until the 2000 Presidential election I did not date many people, but I dated people from all backgrounds. To me, it was the person being open-minded, fun loving, adventurous, and a slew of other personality traits that attracted me most. I dated people from Europe, from Asia, Native American, mixed race people, and even a straight caucasian American. However, since the 2000 election, for some reason, I have not dated an American since, and have given up on the idea. But, it was not a racial or cultural issue, but more of an attitude and perspective on life issue. My dad says that he saw me with a Vietnamese or Chinese person, but for me, I saw myself since 2000 with anyone who was just not American! After all, I want to learn some new things in my life too...

i think a re-read of my post (and the posts to which i was initially replying) might be in need. actaully, I was referring to both websites. As i type, I am about to post here-- on CFL-- my own biased, personal, and even at times political views--as do many others on CFL. There no getting around this. Part of my point was that i think all here need to understand that we as humans do this.... on ANY website. What you said in the end of your post supported my thoughts. You refer to CFL as being a goups of individuals sharing their personal experience... that's what CFL *is* and *should* be. My point was that I believe if we take Lele's advice to it's logical end then there will be nothing left of CFL. If there is a known person at the other end, a person whom is real and whom we can hold accountable for the comments, then my opposition would decrease. However, if people want to come on here, for example, and talk about how these same immigration officers are possibly more responsible for terrorism by turning people away and making them feel more frustration towards the US who were legitimate, then that should also be allowed. Or to mention that when people are deported and it is later found to be in error, but they are so upset that they promote hatred of the US, that then the government should admit it is promoting terrorism. Oops, I guess I just made those connections. Completely fair in this context, from your perspective. If you want, i just read an article in a respectable journal which supports both of these arguments, and I can post a reference. However, at least you know who I am! Just a thought...

For my darling's province, there is a law stating that since her parents were *forced* to move to the countryside during the cultural revolution, they are legally entitled to move back to the city from which their parents were forcibly removed (included obtaining a hukou). I do not know if it applied in your case, but you may want to look into it. However, it likely will not matter in the long-run at this point. If GZ wants to use it as an excuse, they already have the paperwork and it may be too late, and if not, the process may take too long anyway. But, it may be worth looking into. GL

Hey! I was in the countryside exploring in Gansu around ZhangYe for a week and it was a beautiful location to go! The scenery was amazing, the people were friendly and the history was fully up and front. However, this is a portion of Gansu which has been Chinese proper for more than 2000 years, and that may make a difference. Nate, when you say Henan, are you sure that you do not mean Hunan? My darling has family in a remote place in Henan and neither she nor I had any problem there in the large cities (Louyang or ZhengZhou) or in the smaller and more remote places. However, in Hunan, I have heard stories (even in ChangSha)...

This is a really interesting point and I can chime in here. My darling's grandparents were forced during the cultural revolution to have one of their children move to the countryside from a large city that they were all living in for their lives. My darling's parents were the ones selected, as they were each in their own families (they did not know each other yet, and yet both were born in the same big city and the same year), because they were the most physically capable of living in the countryside. It was *extremely* hard for them. Even today, her father is still required to stay in the factory job that he was transfered to after his medical problems after his first appointment. The only good thing is that when he is allowed to retire, that they will both be entitled to switch their hukou back to the city (because they were *forced* to leave). My precious already has moved her hukou back to the big city. However, growing up in a small, industrial region, for the first more than 10 and less than 20 years of her life have shaped her. Things are tough there, but when I went to see, things were very interesting. More of history is preserved, if you walk out away from the main streets, you can still see stones and ceramics from the Ming and Song Dynasty just laying around or in use in homes (this is why I will not post where on this website, for fear that people will steal all of the relics!!!). The people are very friendly and seem to care more about their friends and circles, rather than just their local families. And since electricity was only here for about the last 30 years, people have things like solar water heaters on all of their rooftops, which makes the local air pollution shockingly less (although it is bad thanks to the factories). It was here that many people saw their first foreigner when they saw me, and it is tough for her at times, yet it is very relaxing at times too, to know that it is a more supportive and trusting location. The day will be wonderful when the rest of the family can fully move back to the city, but the experience of the more remote location was important for me and has helped my precious to be the wonderful person that she is today. It has really helped to shape her to care less about money and more about people, and has allowed us to forge much of the unique connection that we have. In fact, her story is quite similar to that of my grandparents (and her parents to that of my great grandparents) in terms of how economics, lifestyle, access, education, and other issues played out on them all. Thankfully, she is so smart and so open-minded that in the end, we will build from what has occurred and I know that our future will take the best of the experience. Ok, I can not write much more on this topic, it is tough for me to relate to and makes me very emotional (both happy to see and learn what I have and to know that she and her family have learned much from it, and sad to know that they were forced into this situation a long time ago).

Could this post please be removed. Another biased and prejudical work! **UGGHH** 1. it cites a source who is possibly completely fake and made up. there is no ownership to this. 2. it comes from a website which is politically biased (it is a front for one of the two major political parties in the US). I just checked its financial supporters to verify this. 3. even if it were supported, I do not see how this relates to the visa process for us, where we face wait times to get to see the officer which are far longer than almost every other destination in the world. 4. it makes dehumanizing attacks and seems on par with the one removed earlier on today. If anyone else agrees with me that we should remove this, please speak up on this thread!

Nope. At least what I believe, from the post, is that he was forcibly removed for being in on an illegal visa.

I am not so sure about that, but it seems to make sense based on what *I* saw in some small towns. However, with GZ checking for things the way that they are, I would not be surprised if they deny the visa, claiming that she broke the law by not registering a hukou in the city that she has been living in. **sigh** However, my darling, since her parents were both forced from a large town to the countryside during the cultural revolution, recently the law was changed (1990 in this province) to allow her to move her hukou back to the large city. And, in the large city, it is really easy for her to get all of the paperwork that she needs. And since it is where the hukou is *registered*, it was painless. She had all of her documents in 48 hours, including translations and certifications, for less than 150RMB total for everything.

It depends: In one's hukou, they should be able to obtain a report for all of the cities that they have lived in. However, if the hukou is in a small city and does not have computer access, the PSB there may not know how to access it, or have access to the information. However, it should be able to be done, just be patient with it! I have also heard that in some small villages, that one needs to greese some plams first... The other factor could be that she has lived illegally in a city, ie, before hukou restrictions were lifted. In this case, the police are actually saving you a world of hurt by not issuing a statement, because if they did, it would show this transgression. Oh, it only matters if she was 16 years old or older when she lived in these places. Good luck!

Hello everyone. When I was talking with my darling just a few minutes ago, she mentioned to me that she is more thin than normal and that she has been having problems eating enough food for the last week. She was sick at the start of the week, so I was not worried, but today it turns out that it is more than just recovering, it really is depression setting in. After talking for a while, she felt better, knowing that I have been effected similarly too, and knowing that we have plans to see each other in about a month. It was also better when she realized that it was not either she nor I who is responsible and that we are both fighting hard. However, for the first time ever, she complained that these feeling were because of Guangzhou. It made me so sad that we both feel the same way, that the people there could actually cause us so much pain that it effects our physical well being. I know that they are only "doing their job" and that they are "overloaded", but the bias shows through, and now it has become personal. I am aware that we are all in the same boat, and that there is really little we can do, but it is not fair. We have decided that we will work to educate people about this, so as to hope that others will not have to face the same problems. *sigh* I feel for everyone else who is waiting, and for everyone who has really been set back...if anyone knows what we can do to help improve this situation, please do share your ideas below. Even if we can not help ourselves, at least we can help others to not have to suffer our same frustration. What do people think? Does anyone have an idea? LeLe

What you say is true. I did not disbelieve that the experiences that were talked about in that gross, bigoted, and prejudical email, were based on reality for that person. And there were some definite things in it that could be learned from as well, so that people will not fall into similar traps. However, just because someone says something which could be useful, when it is cloaked as an attack againt all people of a race or ethnicity, I feel that the horror of it and the insult of it far outweighs the good of it. It was not an attack, it was a dehuminazation, and for that reason, I am glad that it was pulled. It was not this person's experience, but instead using experiences as a way of attacking an entire group of people. Lastly, there was no owner of the piece whom we could contact for redress, so I am glad that it is gone! The way I see it, I do not like censorship, and do not want information to be lost. I do feel that we can learn, even by reading from the most vile of people (like hitler), but it must be done in the most careful of ways, to make sure that we are causing a greater harm to the society around us. It may be ok for reasons of scholarship by people who know what they are doing, but in a forum like this, it really should not be! IMHO although I am glad that others were able to get something good out of it.

yeah.... what just happened?? Amber, you do *not* want to know. Someone posted a message which was not of his/her own, and the message, although long and detailed, contained many bigoted and insulting comments in it (my opinion). So it seems that maiyademama and I both saw it and commented on it, and it was quickly removed before anyone else could get to it (so at least 4 of us saw it, since one of the admins removed it, but possibly not any more). I think that if it were even true, that it would be a very sad story, but the way in which it was written was absolutely terrible. Anyway, its gone now, so no problem!!!

I know! That is why the 1 and 5 fen coins are worth a *mint* I was able to purchase them at some banks (which still have them) at cost, and then have my father sell them in coin markets back in the US for around 0.50$US each! So, that means I get about 4RMB for each 1fen or 5fen coin I have brought back. However, as the originality of the coins goes down, so does the demand. But for the first few hundred or so, the demand was really high!

I read this too, but it was not concerning *marriage* success rate: it was concerning the *from dating phase to marriage* success rate. For Americans, that must be at best 10%, given that the average of the more than 50 people I have asked on how many serious partners they have had before marriage is about 5. (So I just then extrapolated that number of 5 onto the 50% failure rate, to obtain 10%, using a linear interpolation.) Is anyone sure though if this is the correct interpretation of the 30% number? I think that it may *also* be a function of what part of China they are from! From what I have seen, the people from the GuangDong region who marry Americans are much *less* successful than those form the northern portions of China (and they seem to be quite successful from jiangsu, shanghai, and beijing). Again, my sample size is small (only about 15 people not from online). Does anyone think that this correlation could have some validity to it (or even be a correlation)?

An absolutely wonderful point that you make about it helping to improve communication. I think that in general, this is one of the reasons why our rate of success will be better than the typical American's (which is about 50% right now, even after being married). However, we both still find it useful to have the translator for certain historical or meaningful conversation topics. When we talked about the meaning of some of the items and imagery found in a recent dig in hunan, it was indispensable. It has also helped for me to understand more of the cultural aspects behind some of the more popular books or films. A very interesting perspective indeed! Do you find that there are times when it is easier for you to communicate in putonghua than in English? I am starting to recognize myself speaking putonghua at times just during my day, even when there are no Chinese around (never the less when there are Chinese students around), even if everyone is speaking in English. I guess that I find each language is better at explaining some things than others. Has anyone else felt this at times, and if so, how do you deal with it (without driving the people around you bonkers)?

Well 160 a night, with bargaining for a deal of 5 nights in a row may bring it down to 130RMB a night. A little high, but not out of reach anymore. Thanks a lot for your help!!! BTW: who is dean hall? Sorry...