Cultural differences

[david_dawei]

The vast number of cultural differences between east and west is too long to list.. and once experienced, it is easy to see that 'half way around the world', they truly do things differently.

 

I had one difficult point to pick with Zixuan. Most people I have talked to on the Western front are shocked by this. yet, anyone I talk to on the eastern front understands it.

 

Zixuan has a older brother she does not like at all. Being the oldest in the family, he by custom takes care of their ailing mother, so lives with her. Zixuan does not want me to meet him for various reasons, and therefore I am not to meet her mother [yet].

 

Zixuan, along with the support of her older sister who agrees, once she gets the visa will come to the US without her mother having meet me or knowing that Zixuan has left China. (we plan to return to China subsequent to a US marriage for a ceremony for her mother).

 

Most westerns I talk to say, "How can a daughter do this to her mother". The Chinese I have spoken to understand this without any further discussion needed. ALthough I debated many times this issue with Zixuan and my Chinese friends, I finally gave up my western mind to the issue and accepted her decisions fully.

 

The best advice I got was from a Chinese lady who said: "Stay out of it. Make her happy and you will make her mom happy. That is all that matters". The chinese pragmatism is something I ultimately understand.

 

 

Do you have a cultural story that you gave up on for the sake of your SO?

[awch]

Live in China for much longer than intended.

[david_dawei]

Live in China for much longer than intended.

I agree. My heart is pulled to China stronger than any I have ever felt.

[tonado]

David,

No family blessing except the older sister. You are taking a big chance. I would think family thing is stronger in a Chinese culture (compare to American).

[sylinchinastill]

I gave up being a vegetarian so we could eat the same food- unfortunately I didn't plan very well because there are still so many foods he loves that I won't eat- pig bone soup- ugh.

[shimaore]

Comment on your story : You marry not a person but a family today or tomorrow you will have to deal with her brother so meet him and make your own evaluation of him despite what your so suggest ( this is what i learned while leaving in Europe : issue are to be dealt with not put under the carpet ) .

 

Back to your question - personally did not do any personal cultural concession ( apart from learning mandarin ) actually my so thought I was chinese because of the way I think I got a bit lazy because of the flexibility she showed in our relationship : I do not drink or eat pork - she actually does not . That 's the amazing part of woman in general and chinese women in particular they have a power of adaptation to the silly habits of their bf or husbands .

[david_dawei]

David,

No family blessing except the older sister.  You are taking a big chance.  I would think family thing is stronger in a Chinese culture (compare to American).

I only mentioned who I did not meet.. I meet every friend and family member under the sun. There were more parties thrown for us and more alcohol consumed in endless toasts than I want to remember.

[Dan R]

David your situation makes sense to me. If there are difficulties with the older brother why have a confrontation and have everyone confront each other with their own positions, forcing at least one to loose face. Once things are done and everyone is faced with the fact of the marriage and decision perhaps it will be easier. At least know one will be in a position of irrevocable loss of face even if it is temporary.

 

I wonder why us westerners feel the need to explain and quantify everything.

My SO agrees with my decisions and says she has a wise man. I think this is mostly because if I realize she is set I something I give in quickly. Her main criticism of me is "I think too much". Maybe when she is here and we need to do more advance planning and filling in government forms she will appreciate that more.

[david_dawei]

Yes, this 'losing face' issue is not something to fall into, particularly with 'the oldest brother' who will assert himself as the family voice (BTW: her father is passed away).

 

I've accepted that the two sisters are trying to avoid any confrontation (between me and him , and he and the sisters). I've accepted that they know better than me in this situation... and they don't need to explain it .. and they have no plans to anyway.

[david_dawei]

I wonder why us westerners feel the need to explain and quantify everything.

My SO agrees with my decisions and says she has a wise man. I think this is mostly because if I realize she is set I something I give in quickly. Her main criticism of me is "I think too much".  Maybe when she is here and we need to do more advance planning and filling in government forms she will appreciate that more.

Zixuan often does not want us to discuss something. She said whatever I decide is enough. I have picked my moments to persist in wanting her advice/input, particularly if I can "explain" how it affects her.

 

I agree that westerns are viewed as thinking and explaining too much. Even saying "thank you" too much.

 

I finally understand why "thank you" and "sorry" are not as necessary to say in Chinese circles. Zixuan is always saying to me , "no thank you" and "no sorry" meaning that I don't need to say it. I've read that some words are considered 'formal' ways of talking and you do not talk 'formally' to family or friends. So for that reason, there is no need to be formal and say "thank you" for every single act they do for you. I got the sense that Zixuan was shaking her head from all my "thank you's"... Although we translate many of their responses as "your welcome", they appear to really mean: No need to be formal; not necessary; doesn't matter.

 

Zixuan knows that I have read a lot of Tao and Zen.. when I fall prey to any number of western ways, she'll remind me in a Eastern poem or story what I'm doing. It's amazing to read a story and see yourself in it. Usually it's the guy making a fool of himself.

[ptcrusier333rph]

David I understand your SO not want to confront her mother and brother, I have same with my SO family, one reason why she not want to tell her brother is if he say no, she would have to defied him to marry you, by marrying you she step around the situation that could to cause a rift in the family, it easier to travel over or around a barriar than go through it.

 

 

We getting married with only a few family and friends of her present. then will inform her family after a week. Her mother has not forbid her from marrying me, but she does not want to have to defy her family and marry me.

 

She already told me her family come 2nd to me. I never seen this much resolve in a woman and this much love for me, I only hope that I worthy of living up to her love for me.

[Dan R]

I agree that westerns are viewed as thinking and explaining too much.  Even saying "thank you" too much.

 

I finally understand why "thank you" and "sorry" are not as necessary to say in Chinese circles.      Zixuan is always saying to me ,  "no thank you" and "no sorry" meaning that I don't need to say it.    I've read that some words are considered 'formal' ways of talking and you do not talk 'formally' to family or friends. So for that reason, there is no need to be formal and say "thank you" for every single act they do for you.    I got the sense that Zixuan was shaking her head from all my "thank you's"...  Although we translate many of their responses as "your welcome", they appear to really mean:  No need to be formal; not necessary; doesn't matter.

 

Now this "sorry" is interesting. My SO is always saying "sorry" when she sees I am upset or disappointed. I am always the one saying, "you don't need to be sorry". So then is this an East/West thing or an Us thing? Hhhhmmmm I find there are many mysteries to be unraveled in a cross culture relationship. Sometimes it is more a matter of personalities.

[david_dawei]

David I understand your SO not want to confront her mother and brother, I have same with my SO family,  one reason why she not want to tell her brother is if he say no, she would have to defied him to marry you, by marrying you she step around the situation that could  to cause a rift in the family, it easier to travel over or around a barriar than go through it.

 

 

We getting married with only a few family and friends of her present. then will inform her family after a week. Her mother has not forbid her  from marrying me, but she does not want to have to defy her family and marry me.

 

She already told me her family come 2nd to me. I never seen this much resolve in a woman and this much love for me, I only hope that I worthy of living up to her love for me.

um.. sounds like we're in the same boat... best to let the SO steer this course !

[david_dawei]

I agree that westerns are viewed as thinking and explaining too much.  Even saying "thank you" too much.  

 

I finally understand why "thank you" and "sorry" are not as necessary to say in Chinese circles.      Zixuan is always saying to me ,  "no thank you" and "no sorry" meaning that I don't need to say it.    I've read that some words are considered 'formal' ways of talking and you do not talk 'formally' to family or friends.   So for that reason, there is no need to be formal and say "thank you" for every single act they do for you.    I got the sense that Zixuan was shaking her head from all my "thank you's"...     Although we translate many of their responses as "your welcome", they appear to really mean:  No need to be formal; not necessary; doesn't matter.

 

Now this "sorry" is interesting. My SO is always saying "sorry" when she sees I am upset or disappointed. I am always the one saying, "you don't need to be sorry". So then is this an East/West thing or an Us thing? Hhhhmmmm I find there are many mysteries to be unraveled in a cross culture relationship. Sometimes it is more a matter of personalities.

yea, the "sorry" one is still confusing me. Not as clear cut as the "thank you" thing.

 

Thinking of it, ,Zixuan is often saying "sorry", but won't let me say it. Maybe let's add a dash of age/gender difference to the east/west/personality cross cultural soup mix.

 

I am 11 years old than her, and know that there is definitely a gender thing for showing respect, etc.

 

I've got a friend who slams the whole "respect" theory.. saying they are just scared to shame family or embarassing someone in public, etc... and it's a false expression.

 

I don't buy that criticism, although I understand it. I've had many chinese friends and am very astute at perceiving social contexts and behavior.

 

I think they are a more respectful people than us.. if merely because of the way they see their race as one hugh family. Once one understands the addressing and naming conventions (based on your age, you could be called brother, uncle, grandfather by complete strangers) you also see why they are not afraid of strangers the way we are. From the earliest ages, the children do not grow up in fear of people. If anything, they usually came up to me to talk.

[BuffaloPaul]

My SO despises her older brother also. He took her parents house when he got married and they live in an unheated hut with no plumbing (near Yantai which can get really cold). So before leaving she is using her savings to buy her parents a house in Yantai. Last week she took 2 24 hour bus rides to Yantai to supervise the interior construction (new "houses" are just 4 walls and a concrete floor in a multi-story building). She is going to do the trip again in a couple of weeks. Feels its her duty as a daughter. Her brother won't help with either the money or supervising the construction and her parents are too elderly. Plus during the last trip he was very upset with her marrying an American over the Taiwan issue. So he's in her dog house.

 

The sorry and thankyou are interesting also. I generally thank her for everything - just my habit. The first time I did it she was totally shocked. Even after 3 visits and hundreds of thankyou's she never fails to register surprise. And she frequently appologises for nothing.