Shamian Island, ACS, US Citizens Hour

[mlspyl]

Sorry for the tome below. Disregard the misspellings and read at your own risk !!!

 

Updated information at the bottom of the post, added on 4/17/05

 

 

Arrived in China on April 9 to visit my wife for a few weeks. Experienced the same feelings as my previous trips:

 

First two days in China: Time goes slowly, I can remember all the details of these first two days.

Remainder of first week in China: Time moves at speed of sound, I can hardly recall the details. Hope to finish this post before it all escapes me.

Next week and a half: Time will move at the speed of light !!! Next thing you know, I will be in the USA and back to work.

 

Every visit is like this for me.

 

 

I wanted to visit the US Consulate in Guangzhou (GZ), did not make it on my last visit. We left Shenzhen (SZ) Friday morning,took a bus to GZ. Arrived in GZ 90 minutes later, pleasant ride. I visited GZ last year, but I forgot just how many people are in that city. Be alert and careful !!!

 

Taxi to Shamian Island, had the driver drop us off at the opposite end of the island (via the US Consulate). Walked to the Consulate, surprised by the atmosphere of the surroundings. The people on the island are so laid back and the buildings so old world.

 

Arrived at the Consulate at 2:15pm; sort of disappointed, did not like the buildings !!! Noticed a number of Chinese citizens (maybe 20) standing in roped-off lines outside the Consulate, not sure why at this time ??? Looked for US spouses/fincees nearby but did not see anybody, probably too late in the afternoon. In fact I did not see any US consulate guards at all outside the Consulate ???

 

 

Past the lines was a building with window gates where the people in line where waiting to go (not sure for what type of visa, etc.). Next, we entered the Consulate proper. First building was for screening etc. I showed my passport, my wife had to show her identity card,our marriage notarial certificate, and purpose for her to enter the the Consulate. Not a problem which surprised me, because I thought Chinese citizens were not permitted to enter the Consulate grounds. We had to leave our "stuff" in this building (cell phones, laptops, purse, water, keys, etc.) The guards will give you a plastic number tag to retrieve your belongings on the way out. They were both friendly and courteous.

 

Important: If you plan to attend the American Citizens Hour, you must pick up another plastic number tag (yellow) here (different than baggage receipt tag). I did not, and had to return to get this. Kind of awkward because on exiting you must talk through the window and cannot enter again from the inside.

 

 

Next we proceeded to the main building (straight ahead, about 100 feet from the first building). When you enter, there is a guard behind a glass cage, Again show ID and state why you are here, for us it was to see the American Citizens Service (ACS) office on the second floor. This guard was more demanding on my wife for ID, but we made it through without a problem. You will receive a visitor's badge from the guard. You must take the steps to the second floor. We had to get a document notarized that required both of our signatures and had to be done by a US notary, so we used the Consulate.

 

A word of caution on notarization, be prepared. My wife did not have her passport because it will expire shortly and the Chinese government has this while her new passport in is being processed. After some dicussion the ACS officer agreed that her ID card and copy of her passport was sufficent However, the real problem was with my ID and not hers. I own a house and rent (closer to work) and the document to be notarized had my house address on it. The Consulate officer wanted to see an identification card with my signature and my home address. All I had was my driver's license which has the address of the townhouse I rent and he would not accept this. I countered that my passport has my house address and he could look this up on the computer. He said this was not sufficient. After much more discussion the officer spoke to someone else, then we finally got the document notarized. I was becoming upset during this time, but the Consulate officer was patient and finally did help us out.

 

 

Next, I attended the American Citizens hour at 3:00pm (Fridays), my wife could not attend being a Chinese citizen. So we walked back to he screening building picked up our "stuff", she left the Consulate and I got the yellow plastic number tag required to attend the Citizend hour. The room where the meeting is held is on the right side of the main building on the first floor, there is only one door. When you enter a guard will not permit you to enter the room without the tag.

 

The room has seats for 40 to 60 people. On the right is door to a room where Chinese gitizens go to receive some type of passport stamp ??? I noticed several people entering and exiting during the session.

 

 

At 3:00pm a Consulate offical (Chinese man) passed out sign-in sheets. You write your name, spouse/fiancee name, and case number. He also passed out two documents, one on the Visa process and the other on FAQs, basically the same information found on their website.

 

At 3:20pm an America Visa Officer (VO) arrived to begun the session. Early thirties, very nice and open. He worked in ACS and has been a VO for only 18 months and he was not as experienced as he would like to be. The room was full, primarily with Chinese born US citizens. Including myself, I counted six "US born" citizens.

 

THe VO spent the next 10 minutes going over family visa basics, nothing new to CFLers. Next he opened up the floor to general questions, he would not answer specific questions. You can guess what happened next !!!! Only specific questions where ask !!! Every Chinese naturalized citizen (I saw and heard them all) had a blue slip for a family member. The session denigrated into a free for all, everyone trying to talk to the VO at the same time about their blue slip.

 

 

However, I did make a few observations during this time:

1. Most (with a few exceptions) did not understand the process correctly, specifically the sufficient proof for an ongoing relationship.

2. The VO officer was reluctant to spell out what additional proof is required, except in one case where the wife could not read/speak English but the husband could speak Chinese. Prepare a video tape of the two speaking in Chinese.

3. The VO must reply to overcome evidence with 24 hours. The VO stated they were mandated to do this. And in most cases there will be no second interview, either an approval or another bluse slip (with an accompanying yellow, green, whatever color).

4. The new consualate building(s) will be open on June 25, 2005 and this should help with crowding and space limitations for visa interviews.

5. With a couple of blue slips that this VO observed, in his opinion, the interviewing VO had make a mistake.

 

 

My questions and the VO answers (nothing ground-breaking here):

1. Since a name-check is done at the NVC for CR-1/IR-1 why is the name check required at GZ (I wanted elaboration of the name check process)? GZ requests it's own name check using several sources. I did not receive any additional information.

2. Is K1/K3 visa interviews given preference (timing on who gets scheduled first) over CR-1/IR-1? He believes so, but does not know why.

3. If a VO suspects fraud during an interview, why do most VOs not review "all" the supporting documents that the applicant brings (I said that I know of several case were this occured and the interviewing VO would not look at the documents). He stated that is should not happen and he personally reviews supporting documents if he has doubts. However, he did state the the VOs are under pressure to complete a certain number of interviews each day.

4. If interviews last approximately 5 minutes, why cannot US spouses/fiancees be present to prove the ongoing relatioship question? It is not the policy at GZ to do this, space limitations, and prior problems when this was done in the past.

5. For him personally how many family based interviews does he average each day? He stated that the Consulate wants 25 per day, but the VOs, including himself, are handling about 20 per day. This is another reason why the interviews are so short. In addtion, each VO must also review overcome documents from their prior blue slips within 24 hours.

6. His thoughts if the Consulate will speed-up the process, and if so by how much? Yes, this is the plan with the opening of the new Consulate, but no definite estimate of projected time reduction in case processing at GZ.

 

 

Meeting ended at 4:30pm. Did meet two people doing DCFs. Left the Consulate, returned to SZ by bus. Return trip took 2.5 hours and was not as pleasant as the morning bus ride !!!!

 

 

Additional thoughts (as of 04/17/05) after reading posts on CFL:

 

1. VO stated that if blue slip overcome documents was submitted on Monday, decision would be on Tuesday, and (if successful) Visa would be issued with passport on Wednesday.

2. VO stated that in the near future, blue slip overcome documents can be submitted on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday from 9:00am to 10:00am. Not on Thursdays any longer, because the VOs will now be given 48 hours and not 24 hours to make the overcome decision. I believe I have this correct, so don't shoot me if I am mistaken !!!!

3. I did feel bad for the number of people who had blue slips for their family members, the majority without sufficient proof of relationship. CFL would have helped them. But what I do not understand, is that they have been through the process themselves previously, and I would think they should know the hurdles ??? One thought is, maybe the rules of changed ???

4. No information on number of VOs, forgot to ask this question

 

 

Mark

[tonado]

Good info.

[david_dawei]

2.  The VO officer was reluctant to spell out what additional proof is required, except in one case where the wife could not read/speak English but the husband could speak Chinese.  Prepare a video tape of the two speaking in Chinese.

This has always seemed to bother me a bit... Although you state where the husband could speak Chinese.

 

I have seen a few interviews where the request was made for a VHS tape of US person to speak chinese. In most cases, I infer that since the SO did not satisfy the VO with their english, they immediately want the US person to demonstrate their ability to talk in chinese.

 

This seems to put the cart before the horse... If the VO cannot understand the SO well enough, they should ask for a VHS of the couple talking in English... to see if they can understand each other. TO request a tape in Chinese for a US visa( am I the only one knocking his head on a wall to understand this) , seems a last resort of evidence. Maybe I am asking for too much pragmatism from GZ...

[ed and ying]

Great report

With VO doing 20 interview a day plus overcome - it would seem that VO would have made at least a guess on the outcome based soley on what was in the I-129F package. If they saw enough evidence beofre interview, why look at more. I am glad I included more evidence in I-129F than the minimum required to meet purposes of the I-129F.

 

I hope I can get OUR NOA2 and P3 behind us before they move

[Guest blsqueaky]

Great info. I for one, would love to get some more information regarding your questions, numbers 1 and 2. It does not make any sense, especially if a K-3 has been issued, why all of the hassle for CR-1/IR-1, when everything has already been done once, name checks, DS-230, financial statements.

 

Time to go and bang head against wall

[C4Racer]

2.  The VO officer was reluctant to spell out what additional proof is required, except in one case where the wife could not read/speak English but the husband could speak Chinese.  Prepare a video tape of the two speaking in Chinese.

This has always seemed to bother me a bit... Although you state where the husband could speak Chinese.

 

I have seen a few interviews where the request was made for a VHS tape of US person to speak chinese. In most cases, I infer that since the SO did not satisfy the VO with their english, they immediately want the US person to demonstrate their ability to talk in chinese.

 

This seems to put the cart before the horse... If the VO cannot understand the SO well enough, they should ask for a VHS of the couple talking in English... to see if they can understand each other. TO request a tape in Chinese for a US visa( am I the only one knocking his head on a wall to understand this) , seems a last resort of evidence. Maybe I am asking for too much pragmatism from GZ...

Again they are not telling you everything. They ask for a video of the USC speaking Chinese if the SO does not speak English very well. The point is not that either speak the others language, but that you have good communication. Carl (warpedbored) was asked for this video, but since he does not speak Chinese, he submitted a tape showing he and Bing communicate very well together. This is all they are looking for. My SO was allowed to finish her interview in Chinese, but they never requested this video. Not sure why. Somehow, maybe with what evidence we already submitted or she brought, they had no question about our communication level.

 

 

It makes sense to me that the foreign consulate has a few more places available to perform further name checks than US sources.

 

Also, they are vaugue in what is required, because they do not want to give out too much information. Remember, they are playing a cat and mouse game with people looking to perpetrate fraud. Most people , like you and I, are going through the system using it for what it was intended. There are a few people, many from China, looking to buy their way into the US on a Fiancee Visa. Reminds me of one trip to China. I was on my return leg. We had just been informed our flight from LA to Portland was delayed due to mechanical problems. A couple was sitting next to me. He made a call to his brother, who must have been his ride in Portland to inform him the plane would be late. From the conversation (not that I was trying to listen in, he was so close I was trying to ignore him while I was reading), but something he said caught my ear. He was talking about visting their loser friends of high school days. One was such a loser because he was paid 15,000 USD to get a Phillipine Citizen her green card. I was a little unhappy, but I did not say anything. Especially, since you could tell he thought his friend was stupid for accepting this money. It goes to show you, that the problem is real. It is happening quite frequently. This is not the first instance I have heard of personally. This is why the VO's do not provide super good intructions. People who are perpetrating fraud might get tripped up this way. They also ask for duplicate information and then look carefully for consistancy.

 

BTW Great post..

[mari]

Thanks a bunch Mark, did he mentioned how many VO's there are? I hope that their estimate on speeding up the interviews is based on hiring more VO's, it's all a matter of simple arithmetics, don't ya think so?

[njbernie]

mlspyl, Great post as I'm going to attend the Citizens hour myself as I got my blue slips and a rainbow of other slips.

[oregonknl]

GREAT POST MARK ~!

 

Very tight reporting...

 

And in you asked some very good questions, as well, I particularly like your question #3 --- WHY EXACTLY, DON'T THE VO'S REVIEW ALL THE EVIDENCE IF THEY SUSPECT VISA FRAUD~!!!!!!!!!! (there are lives in the balence here, Mr. and Ms. US State Dept. VO ~!!! )

 

B)

[ed and ying]

The absurdity of this visa process is just starting to settle on me as I compare to the process my company uses to hire a employee.

 

To me the problem is that visa process is "data" driven with little personal interaction.

 

Both process depend on some forms and data to function. Okay the visa process wants a huge amount of data ( proof).

 

Both process have interview. Visa process is Hi - yes/no/maybe in 5 minutes. If you are a no/maybe - go to round 2. At my company, you get three 1 hour interview. The data from these interviews , plus info from the host is considered. A hire decision from 2 interviewers will get you a job offer.

 

The point of this:

 

Our VO's are talented folks - wouldn't we all be better off, if would could put more time and focus on the "real" interview as the decison making tool ?

 

To bring poeple from all over China to a GZ for 5 min or less "interview" is a sad situation

 

Anyway - my thoughts - it is late- I want my NOA2 !!!

[david_dawei]

Ed: I am not sure what center your I-129F is through, but I know the best indicator of time is on this forum. Have your figured this out or can someone give me a reasonable time?

 

I think the problem you raise is like comparing the ant to the bee. Both work hard as hell ( opps, Robert, if your watching, here's a four letter word for your list!), yet their environment is not the same.

 

But your point is just that...

 

I agree with your line of thought that the VOs are probably no slouches.. they have a job to do and probably want to do a good job. But like any job, some get disillusioned and stop following the best way of fulfilling the job... and make a hell of it for others.

 

Let's say that about 10% or less of any company workers are this way. So applying this to GZ, assuming 20 VOs (and I have no idea how many), that would mean about 2 of them are make it very difficult.

 

If we find that a large number of VOs are very difficult, then either:

1) We are all falling short of the application requirements

2) The job sucks and they take it out on us

[cosmiclobster]

Mark: Thanks for the detailed info!

Our friend just got her P3 and I'm worried that her interview will be delayed because of he move.

[Jason+Joanna]

Good Stuff, thanks for the info. Greatly needed for my next trip !