Another Hero gone

[MarkLuvsShuPing]

Truth.

Philosophy is the top of a cereal box.

Religion is a smile on a dog.

 

Hey, what do you do when a doctoral candidate in Philosophy comes to your door?

[MarkLuvsShuPing]

Pay him for the pizza!

[Guest DragonFlower]

Sall rite Marky,I arth to thupit to plaa wit da big kidds.

 

 

long

[MarkLuvsShuPing]

Shootshershelfbuddy, noproblemo.

[Trigg]

Trigg-

You seem to be contradicting yourself a little. You mention an American truth and a Chinese truth but how can these exist if everyone has their own personal truth?

 

Personally, it seems to me what you call "personal truth" is actually an opinion, not a truth.

 

I also believe that there are objective "truths" such as numbers. Would you debate the number of dead in the recent Asian tsunami? Or is that just a Sri Lanken truth or and Indnesian truth? And some numbers that Chinese don't have access to are how many people died during Mao's reign, with his full knowledge.

 

It's fun debating with you! 

amber

American Vs Chinese truths are but collective societal truths. Not to be confused with personal truths and certainly not to be confused with numbers.

 

The recent tsunami is an example of objective reality. How does this equate to what you believe to be real numbers coming from our governemnt about Mao Vs. real nimbers coming from the Chinese governemnt about Mao?

 

Keep believing what you are told and reallity will bite you in the ass.

[tonyontherock]

Talking about June 4.

I was there! But now I see nothing, I know nothing and I would not tell anything!

I, like a lot of my friends, are into trying to make money now. Like the Spanish civil war and those who volunteered, June 4 to many is the past.

In the present, every June 4, I celebrate with my gf. We celebrate the day we met, we celebrate life, without fire crakers.

[Guest DragonFlower]

OK,now let me get this straight.

 

What are you telling us to believe?

 

 

 

"Keep believing what you are told and reallity will bite you in the ass. "

 

 

 

nite,nite

long

[Trigg]

OK,now let me get this straight.

 

What are you telling us to believe?

 

 

 

"Keep believing what you are told and reallity will bite you in the ass. "

 

 

 

nite,nite

long

Believe it or not. yup, that's what i'm saying. Your getting good at this.

[Guest DragonFlower]

Don Rickles is my patron saint

 

 

 

really nite,nite

long

[oregonknl]

GEEEEEZZZZEEE ~!

 

I go away for about 10 hours and this is what I gET ~ !?!?

 

But the reality is that I can't respond with any thought on any of these subjects --- and good job at being wide ranging everyone ~! (although I do believe they are inter- related)

 

I'm (finally) moving into my new house, ( so every thing is packed, (NOT) and evey detail is Resolved ! (not).....

 

Carl wants me to address the issue of Tibet on the RR 2 --- which I'm not going to do ---- this is a legitimate issue about Chinese culture, and therefore, legitimate right here at the Candle....... (hear that TAZ !!! --- Chinese culture ~!! )

 

Just as if yesterday, had some interestiong face to face discussions about that with my Father in Law (a PLA officer at the time) ---- we went over much what I already knew (and, Tax, he is, even today, an inside track kind of a guy, doesn't believe all of the BS party line, because he gets the truth ---- Your figures are WAYYYY off about Tibet !!!

 

and you are mixing apples and oranges ---- During the Cultural Revolution there was wide spread persecution of Tibetans ........ BUT TAZ ~!!!!! DDURING THAT SAME TIME, THERE WAS WIDESPREAD PERSECUTION OF OF INTELLECTUALS ALL OVER CHINA ~!!! AND AS I HAVE POSTED HERE IN SOME DETAIL, FEI'S FAMILY WAS PULLED UP INTO THAT, INCLUDING HER FATHER !!

 

But it is also true that Tibet as a religious state was a bone crushing Cast System ----

 

Taz ! I'm amazed !

 

Women were almost uniformly at the very lowest level of society ---- and had Zero oppertunity to advance...... Members of lower casts were sold as chattel...

 

But there is another thing about China's incursion into Tibet that western film makers (Hollywood) is reluctant to admit.... i

 

..... t was Approved by the Dali Lama ~!! And (according to my Father in Law ----- who I trust as an intellectually honest man.... ) the resistance to that incursion was lead by members of the Kumingtang~!!! --- which if you think about it makes perfect sense .....

 

.... The cut off, and isolated Nationalists in western China eventually DID retreat to countries south of the border, and there have been several articles about them recently in the western press ---

 

----- and TAZ ~! Where (in all of Hollywood) did the idea emerge that Tibetan Budddists were "war like" enough to launch a military campain --- even in their own defence ~?

 

Taiwan, also, of course, has long been a part of China, and will be brought back into line in our life time... sorry that I don't have time to discuss it, but if this topic is still around in a week, I will...

 

Also the number of deaths at Tianamin were wildly exagerated.... Most occured west of the city ( not the students even, for the most part, but working class youths who got in front of the tanks....) Harrison Salsberry (sp.) was there at the time, and witnessed much of it ... (NY Times)

 

Fei also was a college student, and protestor, at the time --- and she readily admits that if her father knew it then --- he would skin her alive ~!

[awch]

The recent tsunami is an example of objective reality. How does this equate to what you believe to be real numbers coming from our governemnt about Mao Vs. real nimbers coming from the Chinese governemnt about Mao?

Not talking about any numbers coming from any government. The Chinese government has the real information on numbers, but won't release that to the public.

 

Other info on numbers in China usually comes from people who were there or through meticulous research, not necessarily from the US gov.

 

Do you claim that the the Chinese government is telling the world the full truth about it's own past? I'm curious.....

[awch]

.....  t was Approved  by the Dali Lama ~!!    And (according to my Father in Law ----- who I trust as an intellectually honest man.... )  the resistance to that incursion was lead by members of the Kumingtang~!!! --- which if you think about it makes perfect sense .....

I'm sorry, what was approved by the Dali lama??

[awch]

hmm.... now I remember why I never get into debates.

 

It can only end with each shaking their head and snorting at the other's idiocy, no one convinced of anything different than they started with.

 

It's good to remember that it's the person's ideas you don't like, not the person themselves.

[oregonknl]

Amber,

 

Of the two popular Hollywood versions related to the events at the time, one shows that the Dali Lama went by train, at Mao's invitation to Beijing for a meeting...

 

At that meeting the Dali Lama agreed (and signed a document stating such) that Tibet was part of China, and subject to China's laws....

 

One of the precititating issues that China used to move into Tibet was Tibet's refusal to disband the cast system ----- and specificially -------- recognise women as equal to men............

[awch]

Amber,

 

Of the two popular Hollywood versions related to the events at the time, one shows that the Dali Lama went by train, at Mao's invitation to Beijing for a meeting...  

 

At that meeting the Dali Lama agreed (and signed a document stating such) that Tibet was part of China, and subject to China's laws....  

 

The several versions that I have read, is that yes, the Dali Lama signed such a document (the 10 Point Agreement), but under averse conditions. Basically he was held there until he signed. He immediatly renounced it after he left China.

 

This also sounds like a Hollywood version, but not something I would put past the Chinese gov't of the time. They were desperatly looking for a "face" to put on their invasion to make it look OK.

 

I've never seen any Hollywood movies about Tibet, only read a lot of books, some with forwards written by the Dali Lama and inculding a ton of personal interviews with Tibetans.