Language barrier

[lumatt]

I understand a few basic Mandarin phrases and I will travel in a couple months to meet a young lady I plan to marry. She has very little english and I am at a loss how we can communicate effectively. I need all the ideas I can get.

[warpedbored]

Get a pocket translator. You can get em for around 100 dollars at aimhigh.com

[lele]

My university offers Chinese 1 and 2 course materials online, free of charge.

 

http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Foreign-Language...eHome/index.htm

 

And Carl's suggestion is a good one too! See if she can get one too (possibly it is cheaper, and likely it will be easier for *her* to use).

[Shosetsuin]

Push hard for English (or let her push you hard to learn more Chinese).

 

I have seen some people who get along much better with a language barrier then people who speak the same language.

 

nate

[leejcandle]

Don't think simply of communicating with her.

 

After my first trip to China, I decided that it would be very practical to know more than just the basics. On that first trip, before I was with her and a translator we hired, I got into several situations (Guangzhou Airport, various shops) that left me feeling helpless because noone could speak English.

 

By my third trip (because I had studied hard) I could engage in simple conversations between my fiancee and shopkeepers; follow the bargaining interchange; put it my 2 cents.

 

Don't do it just for her. While in China, it's very practical to know some Chinese. On a different note, I'm able to help her learn English by being somewhat bilinqual with her while she progresses.

[LouRose]

Hi, I am wondering about something, but I want you to know I am not trying to sound skeptical at all, I am just curious.

For those of you who don't (or didn't) speak Chinese and whose SOs don't speak much English: how did you meet, get to know each other, and communicate well enough to know that you want to marry each other?

[leejcandle]

LouRose,

I came back after my previous post to add some additional comments for everyone, but my comments will also help answer your question.

 

We initially used human translators (young daughters of her close friends; though we paid fees). So from when we met in October 2003 and during my first visit, we had some very deep discussions (even intimate); via the human translators.

 

My only concern with that is I felt in some cases some information was being left out; or maybe the chat was going too quick a pace for all three people to have gotten everything understood. Sometimes I felt the girl translating was spicing up the conversation for the fun of it.

 

So when I visited last December-January, I asked my SO to buy a cell phone that could read/write Chinese SMS. Since she couldn't use a computer (she's in her 40's; grew up in the country), I wanted a means to not only keep in contact; but to communicate amongst ourselves without the paid translator.

 

On my side, I started studying Mandarin intensely. (For the previous 3 years, I had studied Japanese.) I knew from my work with Japanese that I could use input method editors and translation software. But I also wanted to get past the practical issues I ran into traveling alone in China.

 

What I learned was that (common wisdom) translation software can make silly mistakes. So my Mandarin study progressed to where I could read and pick up the translation mistakes and correct them before sending to my SO.

 

So from January through my second visit in March, until she got her own computer in May, we used SMS to communicate with each other; between Yahoo video chat sessions with a human friend running the chat.

 

I didn't have to insist on my SO taking English classes. After she bought a computer, my biggest problem was getting her to learn Pinyin. She knew how to use stroke input methods on her cell phone, but I had to push her for a while to realize that with the means at our disposal, Pinyin entry and our computers, our best means of clear communication is for us to communicate in written Chinese.

 

So we have had some very deep discussions communicating with each other in written Chinese. When she tried to chat with me in her rudimentary English, it only meant frustration. We couldn't communicate at all on a level for a true discussion between people; it was more correcting newbie mistakes and me trying very hard to keep my patience.

 

During my third visit in September, my Mandarin was well enough for us to have basic interaction through our daily routines. But when we needed to discuss something important, we'd use our computers or pocket translators (I took my laptop along with a router; networked our computers in her apartment. We had one or two long discussions on Yahoo; while sitting next to each other.

 

What's curious is that if she has something to say during our chats that's difficult to type in Pinyin; she'll pick up her cell phone and write a text message. (Her cell phone uses and input method based on written Chinese character strokes, so someone who knows how to write Chinese characters can use that input method. But she sometimes struggles with Pinyin)

 

Also in September, I was able to engage in banter with locals or shopkeepers while we shopped. I even got involved with a bargaining session when my SO negotiated for price; then I interceded when she threatened for us to leave . (She was trying to save me another 60 cents; I had listened to the price points in RMB, and stopped her when I got impatient.)

 

My point is that we American halfs of these relationships need to learn enough of our Chinese halfs native tongue to deal with some real and practical issues.

 

Simply waiting for her to learn English means not only that you aren't communicating; but there are some important issues you won't learn until later. Whether learning important things later matters to us, depends on our individual situations.

[LouRose]

Thanks, I think it's interesting, there really are so many ways to get around the language barriers. Cute image of you two chatting online side by side! I guess it just goes to show how strong the power of love can be - if the feelings are there, you can always find a way to make it work.

[philb]

lumatt;

How did you meet in the 1st place? How did you already communicate marriage? Just asking. The hand translator is a must. Worth its weight in gold. Ever play Charades? You will. Seriously, I bought a middle of the road computer for my SO with translation capabilities including a writing pad and stylus when I was over there with her. You'll be footing some english lessons and a few Cds in mandarin aren't all that painful. I think that once you've met; there will be enough motivation to overcome any barrier. Good luck.

[Cerberus]

Lumatt,

 

I heartily agree with Carl, "Warpedbored." A while back, he posted the hyperlink for Aimhigh.com. You can use CL search engine, and find it under "hand translators," I believe.

 

My circumstances are substantially different that yours. Alice speaks very good english, but at times can become "hung up" on complex or compound meaning words. I speak some Mandarian. Unfortunately, there are times when we aren't able to get a full meaning of a word, it's impact, or clearly understand what the other is thinking and/or meaning.

 

I used Carl's hyperlink, and have purchased two translators. Alice has one, I have the other. When we call each other, and we have problems properly expressing what we are thinking, both of us can translate then and there. It cuts out a lot of misunderstandings.

 

I would also suggest if you haven't done it yet, and you're talking with you fiancee in China. Go to www.onesuite.com. Phone costs are substantially the best available, very clear signal, printable records for the VO (to show realtionship). With the translators, if you have a voice function you can play into speaker of phone of the Chinese expression for your finacee. Onesuite.com, and the hand translators was some of the best advice Carl has placed on this board. However, he has a lot more sage advice to offer. Thank you Carl!

 

I should add that aimhigh.com has the most comparable rates compared to other translators. You will get a lot more "bang for your buck."

 

Good Luck

[garagegodness]

Push hard for English (or let her push you hard to learn more Chinese).

 

I have seen some people who get along much better with a language barrier then people who speak the same language.

 

nate

sounds familiar! I know a lady when she married a german man, she spoke very little German but she and her husband seem to get along well; few years later, she spoke good german and could express her ideas and thoughts very well. The marriaged ended in divorce in the end.

[warpedbored]

Bing speaks english fairly well now so we seldom need to use our "freinds" (electronic tranlators) anymore. One thing I have speculated on though is that when you do have a little language barrier it forces you to pay closer attention to what your spouse is trying to tell you. You don't have the luxury of mumbling "yes dear" while pretending to listen. Perhaps you actually communicate better than same language couples.

[lele]

Bing speaks english fairly well now so we seldom need to use our "freinds" (electronic tranlators)  anymore.  One thing I have speculated on though is that when you do have a little language barrier it forces you to pay closer attention to what your spouse is trying to tell you.  You don't have the luxury of mumbling "yes dear" while pretending to listen.  Perhaps you actually communicate better than same language couples.

An absolutely wonderful point that you make about it helping to improve communication. I think that in general, this is one of the reasons why our rate of success will be better than the typical American's (which is about 50% right now, even after being married).

 

However, we both still find it useful to have the translator for certain historical or meaningful conversation topics. When we talked about the meaning of some of the items and imagery found in a recent dig in hunan, it was indispensable. It has also helped for me to understand more of the cultural aspects behind some of the more popular books or films. A very interesting perspective indeed!

 

Do you find that there are times when it is easier for you to communicate in putonghua than in English? I am starting to recognize myself speaking putonghua at times just during my day, even when there are no Chinese around (never the less when there are Chinese students around), even if everyone is speaking in English. I guess that I find each language is better at explaining some things than others. Has anyone else felt this at times, and if so, how do you deal with it (without driving the people around you bonkers)?

[lele]

BTW, somewhere I heard, the Chinese American intermarriage succuss rate is less than 30%  less than 50% (the typical American couples).

I read this too, but it was not concerning *marriage* success rate: it was concerning the *from dating phase to marriage* success rate. For Americans, that must be at best 10%, given that the average of the more than 50 people I have asked on how many serious partners they have had before marriage is about 5.

 

(So I just then extrapolated that number of 5 onto the 50% failure rate, to obtain 10%, using a linear interpolation.)

 

Is anyone sure though if this is the correct interpretation of the 30% number?

 

I think that it may *also* be a function of what part of China they are from! From what I have seen, the people from the GuangDong region who marry Americans are much *less* successful than those form the northern portions of China (and they seem to be quite successful from jiangsu, shanghai, and beijing). Again, my sample size is small (only about 15 people not from online). Does anyone think that this correlation could have some validity to it (or even be a correlation)?

[Shosetsuin]

interesting point.

 

I have seen many many many marriages fail here in Shenzhen.

 

My wife is from Wuhan...and it is safe to say that we have had our barriers...language and culture.

 

If anybody knows about the ladies from Wuhan, and I know a few of you do, then they are...um...different.

 

What im getting at is that it takes a hell of a lot of effort on both sides to overcome the cultural and language barriers.

 

nate