Cheese

[Martytb]

The quality of their produce far surpasses that of USA even with all our technology and capital.

   

When I was in China it struck me how nice the produce looked.

Believe me, I am not at all interested in fresh food. Almost everything I buy is frozen or canned.

The fruit was incredibly appitizing, but I thought this was due to where I was and what I was being offered to eat. I lived off of tomatos and cucumbers more than anything else.

When I came home I went shopping for fruit (orders from headquarters)

and was very disappointed. It didn't look nearly as good as it had in China.

[awch]

I agree that the fruits and vegetables in China are amazing and cheap- they don't use genetically modified stuff so everything tastes fresher and juicer.

 

But I don't agree that Chinese eat healthier diets- everything is fried in like 2 cups of oil (not to mention the amount of MSG) and they never, ever eat raw vegetables- Xiao Ming's mom saw me eating raw lettuce once and almost had a heart attack- she screeched "DONT EAT THAT!!!!" She told me I would get diseases if I eat raw vegetables

 

On the other hand I've found that chinese people love fruit and can eat it all day long.

[ed and ying]

I would tend to agree with amberzhu about too much oil and sauces. I think Korean diet is more healthy. I always lose weight on trip to Korea, gain weight on trip to China.

 

Chinese do love the fruit ! I am not a dessert person - but fruit at end of meal is really great idea

[warpedbored]

I think it may be wise to cook all your vegetables in China. Many farmers still use human waste to fertilize their crops.

[maiyademama]

I have to disagree about the quality of produce in China. First, they use lots of pesticides---way above the already too high standard that we accept in the US. Second, there soil has been worked to death and though the fruits and vegetables may look good from the outside, the nutritional values have been compromised due to the lack of minerals in the soil and the drastic levels of pollutants in the air and water. It is possible to buy organic produce in China but it is really expensive and is usually not certified. Nearly all the crops in China are touched by (if not contaminated IMHO) by Chinese air and water pollution...this was my biggest complaint about living in China. Also, like Carl said...they still use human waste in some areas as fertilizer doh!

 

Having said all that, i sure would like to fly back to China just to have one good Chinese meal--- "Suan cai yu" anyone? yum!

[egolessvegan]

Is there documentation that the Chinese are using high levels of pesticides on their fruits and vegeetables?. Where did you get information regarding human waste being used as fertilizer?

What is the incidence of cancer in China compared to USA? It is my feeling that cancer is directly related to the amount of toxins in the air, food, and water. So it would be interesting to find out which country incurs more cases.

B) B) B)

[oregonknl]

Yeah, Chinese have been using "night soil" as fertilizer for thousands of years ... no surprise there, and also a source of hepititus ... which is a continuing problem in China...

 

Thats why you need to cook the vegetables!

 

But China is a big place, not all farming practices are the same. And air and water polution are mostly in the big urban urban centers --- the vast western region (much like the US) is still very pristine... As are vast areas of central China too --- like on my last summer's visit to Hunan provence..

 

Post NAFTA, Consumer Reports did a study of produce coming to the US from south of the border, and compared it with US produce for pesticide levels. As I recall, some samples were higher than US levels, but over-all, they were lower.. Suggesting that farmers in poorer areas simply couldn't afford to use them, and had to use more hand labor.. China has a much higher percentage of agricultural workers than any other country, so logically, you would expect more "hands on" and less chemical or mechanical farming practices in China. My guess is that the problems with pesticide use in agricultural areas unfamiliar with application practices is that they don't read, or completely understand the rules for application.. that could be just as true in China as South America.

 

My point is: China with its huge agriculture labor force is uniquely positioned to produce CERTIFIED organic produce if it wanted to go in that direction.... And if it had access to world markets, it could then force a change in farming practices world wide....

 

Taz ---- I have heard your argument before about mineral depleated soil ---- but I have never seen a study that supports that --- are you aware of one?

[egolessvegan]

As I see it most of the information is heresay with very little documentation. What we do know that here is this country the produce is severly altered with chemicals and all sorts of poisons. To this day I really don't understand the mentality.Our soils have been severly depleted also causing the produce to have less nutrient dense properties.

I don,t claim to be any expert on this topic although for the last 25 years I have only consumed organically grown produce. When I tasted and examined the fruits and vegetables in Guangzhou there was no comparison to those in the US, even what is grown organically. So make your own conclusions. We all have our opinions. Isay Guangzhou had superior produce. I really miss the large persimmons. OH my God, were they good!

[msmckee]

Is there documentation that the Chinese are using high levels of pesticides on their fruits and vegeetables?. Where did you get information regarding human waste being used as fertilizer?

My SO's parents are farmers. They grow fruit and raise chickens and ducks. Believe me, nothing is wasted... not even the waste. There is a back door on the outhouse for collecting the fertilizer. I seriously doubt they use pesticides though. Too much money for Mom and Pop.

[maiyademama]

Is there documentation that the Chinese are using high levels of pesticides on their fruits and vegeetables?. Where did you get information regarding human waste being used as fertilizer?

What is the incidence of cancer in China compared to USA? It is my feeling that cancer is directly related to the amount of toxins in the air, food, and water. So it would be interesting to find out which country incurs more cases.

 

Please note that your Chinese SO most likely NEVER eats apples with the skins or grapes with the skins or just about any fruit with commonly edible skin. This is why. Also, on a separate but related topic, suicide rates among Chinese females in the countryside are extremely high...how do these girls kill themselves? They take pesticides:(

 

 

 

A simple search will yield a plethera of info regarding China's use of pesticides and soil depletion.

 

Here is a rather legthy article for any who have the time:

 

Pesticide use in China -

a health and safety concern

In November, the UK Society of Chemical Industry (SCI) held a conference addressing the problems and challenges facing Chinese agriculture with particular reference to pesticide use.

Chinese government policy is shifting towards a greater reliance on intensive agriculture that will result in more imports of machinery and farm chemicals. The current Chinese population of 1.2 billion may increase to 1.5 billion by the year 2025. The task of providing food for this number of people will become more difficult because of the increasingly large urban populations.

   Although very difficult to estimate, the total cultivated land in China is about 150 million ha. This may seem like a vast area, but China accommodates a quarter of the world's population on only 7% of the world's arable land. There has also been a large loss of agricultural land and there are problems of soil quality. Currently agricultural land is disappearing at the rate of 0.5 million ha per year. The Chinese authorities have responded to these problems by encouraging more intensive agriculture. Imports of some food commodities are likely to increase. By the year 2000 China could be importing about 8-12% of annual grain consumption that amounts to about 40 million tonnes.

 

 

Hazardous pesticide mixing operation in Western China. Photo: Graham Matthews

The pesticides market

Estimates of pesticide use in China are very difficult to make, and figures are probably subject to some error. According to Hong Chuanyi of the Nanshen Chemical Company, China produced 250,000 tonnes of pesticide active ingredient in 1995 that was equivalent to 1.5 million tonnes of formulated product. Currently China imports pesticides worth US$ 150 million per year, and exports a similar amount of OP-dominated pesticides, through Hong Kong. Recent estimates of use in the domestic market indicate that insecticides account for about 74%, herbicides 13%, fungicides 10% and others 3%. In 1995, there were 218 pesticide active ingredients on the Chinese market.

   Quality control is a huge problem in China. About 30% or 70,000 tonnes of active ingredient end up wasted because of inferior quality. At present, according to Hong Chuanyi the only quick way to improve quality is to import pesticides.

Health and safety

Since the early 1980s, pesticide use has increased dramatically in China. This has had an impact on the health of operators, and pest and disease resistance to many chemicals is now widespread.

   Pesticide manufacturers such as Zeneca, in co-operation with the Chinese government, have made suggestions for improvement but it is a daunting task to put over pesticide safety messages in such a huge country.

   Prof Graham Matthews of Imperial College reported on the lack of health and safety awareness in China. He has visited many agricultural operations in recent years and has witnessed poor standards and many instances of inappropriate pesticide application. He told delegates: "I have never seen personal protective equipment worn in China." He also reported he had never seen pesticide calibration being carried out-so application rates invariably were guessed at. Operators regularly performed hazardous operations such as decanting organophosphate insecticides, and other WHO Class I pesticides, using bottle tops for measuring from un-marked bottles. Most spray machines in China are very basic knapsack lever-operated types, often not having proper nozzles. Chinese factories produce about eight million of these machines per year. They are of an inferior quality and often break down and leak pesticide formulation onto the operator.

   Prof Matthews concluded by saying that WHO Class I pesticides-the most acutely toxic pesticides-are too hazardous to use in China with such sprayers.

 

 

Another good article can be found here: http://www.panna.org/resources/gpc/gpc_200...11.3.04.dv.html

[egolessvegan]

Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.

[Guest DragonFlower]

I was reading somewhere recently,that China was thinking about shutting down it's last DDT plant sometime soon.

 

And yeah ,my wife groused at me bigtime,for eating apples without peeling them.

 

 

long

[lele]

Having said all that, i sure would like to fly back to China just to have one good Chinese meal--- "Suan cai yu"  anyone? yum!

2 Days ago in NYC, I just had that!!!! So good. Mmmm. The fact that the chef just came from Chengdu may have helped though...

 

I can not wait to go back for some real Chinese food again!