Chinese Discipline of Children

[Dave G.]

Wow! What an experience we had here last night. I picked JM's son up from school and got a negative report. Basically, the school said I was wasting my money because Ben didn't want to do the assigned work. He only wanted to play (imagine my surprise!). We had a long talk on the way home and two things came out. First, he's SO jealous of the baby who is coming any second now. Secondly -- and related -- he didn't feel like I loved him as a son because we don't share the same DNA (where did he learn the concept of DNA???). Secretly, it broke my heart but I reminded myself he is a 10 year old boy very far from home.

 

I told JM about the discussion. She had a melt down! She screamed at the kid while brandishing chopsticks at him. It was all in Chinese so I had no clue what was being said. Before I knew it, the kid was on his knees -- crying, bowing, and saying "I'm sorry." Whereas we in the US are "trained" now to reason with kids instead of berating/beating them, the Chinese aren't afraid of letting all hell fly in dealing with kids. I'm sure we've all seen the scolding, slaps and the such. I just don't know if I'll ever get used to it. But you know what??? I like some aspects of the Chinese way. I think our kids could use a firmer hand -- perhaps not as firm as the Chinese but something closer.

[Charlotte]

Chinese has a saying: Bang Tou Di Xia Chu Xiao Zi!

Literally translated as: Under beating rod, there comes a devoted son!!!

 

Although it may sound extreme, my parents' generation believes in it. We all took some beatings when we grew up. But with one child family now, these kids are spoilded already.

The way Chinese parents discipline their kids in China -- they would all end up in jail in the US. I had to ask my girl friend to tone down a little when she screamed at her girls at home with neighbors very close by.

[se_lang]

Chinese has a saying: Bang Tou Di Xia Chu Xiao Zi!

Literally translated as:  Under beating rod, there comes a devoted son!!!

 

Although it may sound extreme, my parents' generation believes in it.  We all took some beatings when we grew up.  But with one child family now, these kids are spoilded already.

The way Chinese parents discipline their kids in China -- they would all end up in jail in the US.  I had to ask my girl friend to tone down a little when she screamed at her girls at home with neighbors very close by.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

 

My personal opinion the ass was made with a lot of meat for a reason, the problem comes in when parents fail in restraint while spanking. I have 2 boys, The older boy spanking worked also a stern look worked my little one the best thing is isolation. The bottom line after a spanking or a yelling they always knew they were loved.

 

The pain of discipline fades quickly.

[se_lang]

"god forbid I see some big human abusing there little defenseless child"

I think this is where a lot of problems come in, nobody has ever laid out what is abuse and what is discipline, I really don't think it will ever be defined to please even half of our population, everybody has there own idea of what is right or wrong. it is like the abortion topic. In my opinion discipline should cause pain not damage. A good example, I think AFShiery can relate to this "Knuckle push ups" this hurts but also builds and conditions the body. When my sons like to blow me off and not listen I have them get in the "knuckle push up position" then I talk real slow so it takes a long time and if they interrupt I start over, But I have their undivided attention. My mother who has taken a leather belt an left bloody welts on my ass when I was a kid said I was to hard on him.........Go figure

[kimnjake]

after some experience of working with kids in china and seeing they way they are sometimes treated by their own family, but worse, by complete strangers, i will not ever desire to raise my kids in china (well when i have them one day in the future!!!)

 

i witnessed one of my students get basically slapped across the face by a stranger while playing with a basketball during a break from class one afternoon, and the man slapped him because he didn't like the ball to be bounded!!! i was in shock!!!

 

i couldn't really teach anymore that afternoon.....i was speechless and heartbroken!!!

 

and then...no one took the child into their arms to console him....things work so differently there. i wanted to cry for him and hug him in my arms, but then i would make him lose face even more, i was told....so i just had to watch him suffer and cry while my heart was breaking for him!

 

it was a terrible experience i will not soon forget!

[se_lang]

You may lose your child to foster home if the police find out you spank your child.

Only if you leave marks, in the states I have lived in, but this is also a problem of our system.

[Martytb]

Ah, a subject I have some experience in.

Last year I smacked my daughter for mouthing off and using totally inappropriate language. It was the first time I have ever raised my hand, and was not meant to hurt. It was to the back of her head to get her attention.

She, obviously did not approve of this and complained to her mother.

Two days later I was arrested for child abuse.

Now, a year later, several thousand dollars in attorney's fees, and a lost relationship with my only child, the only person I have any anger toward is the detective that arrested me. It was in his hands to avoid the loss of my daughter and opening the door for her mother to attempt to extort a large amount of "child support". (the true purpose behind the charges) He didn't listen to anything I said except that I raised my hand. He was more interested in making the arrest than serving justice.

My daughter is 16. That in itself explains a lot to anybody who is the parent of a teenager.

Since that day I have become disgusted with the local and state agencies that are supposed to be the experienced experts. And yet Florida's DCF is in the papers daily for failing to prevent the deaths of children who are in mortal danger. What's that about????

My mother beat me with a wire hanger. My father jumped on my back and pounded me into the carpet. I think I know what abuse is. I tried to give my daughter a childhood filled with happy memories. What I got was an out of control teenager with no respect for her father. I had to ask the court for permission to go to China!!! Now all I do is wait for my wife to arrive, and prepare for that day. Some day my daughter will ask for forgiveness, and I can tell her I did that a long time ago, but she must write a few letters to certain people employed by the state, so they can learn from their mistakes.

The good thing is the "mother" will only bleed me for 23 more months and then she will have to go back to work, and actually earn her income.

 

Sorry for my tirade.

[NicolaNSam]

Hey Dave,

 

I really disagree with the whole firm discipline thing! I may be the youngest on this board at 27 but think about the kids point of view. He is expressing to you a valid concern of his. He is letting you know that he feels lonely and afraid that you won't love him as much as the child you two are having together. Do you really think he should be begging you for forgiveness and crying because he expressed himself to you? The only thing your going to do is teach him to suppress his feelings to everyone so he won't get beat for expressing them.

I think parents that are TOO firm on their children are selfish. Think about it, if your child fears you its easier for you to control him and therefore you lead a more comfortable life. Your child doesn't give you too many problems and does exactly what you say. Is that the type of child you want to raise into this world? In my opinion, he's going to grow up following and listening to other people with authority.

On the other hand, if you give him a chance to express himself (Of course without him being rude or disrespectful) then sure you have issues to deal with together but at least it benifits your child. I'm not telling you in anyway how to raise your child! I am no way near parenthood and have no idea what it takes to be a parent. I just wanted to give you my opinion of the childs point of view. I got flashbacks of my friends years ago. The ones that were wild and out of control ironically where the ones who's parents where the strictest when they were younger.

Just my opinion

[se_lang]

i dont believe in spare the rod crap.

I think this is another area where things get misinterpreted "Spare the rod spoil the child" does not mean if you don't spank the child will be spoiled it means if you don't discipline the child will be spoiled, how you discipline should vary according to the crime.

[Trigg]

WOW!!~~! That is a can of worms. First let me say that the original post stated a problem with a child who has a new sibling and is jelous. As some of you know, I am a retired child psychologist. I have also succesfully raised 6 kids WITHOUT physical torture(and least not from me to them). Ok---new sibling-simple one--tell the child you need his help taking care of the baby---to easy??? Yup--but it is that easy. Instead of feeling threatened he will feel responsible and valued--HONEST. As for the whupass thing. Spanking is only effective if the child strongly identifies with the spanker. Reason is obvious-it isn't the spanking but rather the strong disproval that sets him straight. Personaly I think whippin's have the potential to do more harm than good--e.g teaches a child that the forcefull aggresive types win with violence. Having said that, I go back to the "if the child strongly identifies " statement. Discipline is a very positive thing for a child who is searching for right and wrong. The problem is most people define discipline as punishment. The word it self comes from "disciple"- to teach or to get to follow. So, an 'at-a-boy' is as much discipline as a kick in the head. Research in the area says that positives (at-a-boys) should out number negatives 8-1. Anyway, for what it is worth---discipline,yes---punishment,yes--spanking, maybe---whuppin, HELL NO

[Martytb]

Well put Trigg.

That said I must point out that the dynamics change considerably when the child is brought up in a "broken home" environment. the perceptions become distorted and the logical approach does not always work.

[Trigg]

Yup---you are correct. But--maybe all the more reason to give them responsiblity and value. Nothing works the same for all kids. However, if what is being done hasn't worked in the past it will likley not work in the future. Raising kids it the most difficult and most important thing we ever do in life. Unfortunatley it is also the thing we are least prepared for. Our only experience is what we learned from our parents and as good as they may have been they never raised a child in 2004. I guess if it works do more of it and if it doesn't work--STOP IT. I can't tell you how many times I have talked to parents and teachers of a child who has been beaten and physically abused and the parents/teachers tell me no matter how much they whip the kid he still he just gets worse. Usually followed by the "maybe I should whip his butt more often" statement. Sometimes I think that kids grow to be good adults inspite of our parenting rather than because of it. One thing for sure, it is a full time never ending job--but well worth the effort. And I have never heard of a kid going bad because he was told he was worthwhile and loved. Well, my dog is acting up-i gotta go whip his butt---again!

[NicolaNSam]

Well said Trigg,

 

I loved reading every word of what you had to say.

[tonyontherock]

Yup---you are correct. But--maybe all the more reason to give them responsiblity and value.  Nothing works the same for all kids. However, if what is being done hasn't worked in the past it will likley not work in the future.  Raising kids it the most difficult and most important thing we ever do in life. Unfortunatley it is also the thing we are least prepared for.  Our only experience is what we learned from our parents and as good as they may have been they never raised a child in 2004.  I guess if it works do more of it and if it doesn't work--STOP IT.  I can't tell you how many times I have talked to parents and teachers of a child who has been beaten and physically abused and the parents/teachers tell me no matter how much they whip the kid he still he just gets worse. Usually followed by the "maybe I should whip his butt more often" statement.  Sometimes I think that kids grow to be good adults inspite of our parenting rather than because of it. One thing for sure, it is a full time never ending job--but well worth the effort.  And I have never heard of a kid going bad because he was told he was worthwhile and loved.  Well, my dog is acting up-i gotta go whip his butt---again!

Don't beat up the child. Just let him know and feel that if he does not behave, he will be abandoned. Children are insecure. That always works.

There is a cultual difference, I guess. Beating does not work. Pressure does.

Had an arguement with my son over the weekend. Told him no game till he finished his report. He got upset. When he brought some grapes into the office room I took a few. For something he did I got really upset, he thought I was going to hit him and got ready. Instead I just walked out. Never spoke a word to him again for the rest of the day.

I could tell that he was scared. Three years from now he will be on his own. Hopefully by then he would realize how hard it is to pay rent, college tuition and food all at the same time. It is a different culture here and parents cannot and should not expect anything in return. Any one who tried to make it different failed.

I had so many clients in the past in the chinese community brought to court without ever understanding that they simply can not hit a child even if the child skips school or steals.

If it get too bad, turn them over to social services voluntarily. The government, although may, seldom sue parents for the support cost. Save the money and buy a sail boat. Raising a child in this country is the worse than investing in Enron because there is no restriction on capital call.

[Trigg]

I wish it were unbelievable. I gotta believe he was kidding. Surely no one would pray on the normal insecurities of a child like that. Actually I say that and I don't mean it. In my practice I have seen it, or worse, several times. That is why I retired at age 48. Much like you, I best shutup before I ---well I'll just shutup.