***New policy for chinese born baby for exit***

[Randy W]

 

I vaguely remember reading something that said a child born of one Chinese parent and one foreign parent still retains Chinese citizenship even if they have foreign citizenship as well until they reach legal age. Then they have to chose. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship when they reach legal age.

 

 

After the age of 18, they would need to APPLY to have their citizenship re-instated.

 

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship at 18.

 

 

Article 14 - "Applications of persons under the age of 18 may be filed on their behalf by their parents or other legal representatives."

 

Article 9 - Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

[newacct]

 

 

I vaguely remember reading something that said a child born of one Chinese parent and one foreign parent still retains Chinese citizenship even if they have foreign citizenship as well until they reach legal age. Then they have to chose. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship when they reach legal age.

 

 

After the age of 18, they would need to APPLY to have their citizenship re-instated.

 

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship at 18.

 

 

Article 14 - "Applications of persons under the age of 18 may be filed on their behalf by their parents or other legal representatives."

 

Article 9 - Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

 

Yeah so? I don't see the relevance.

 

Article 14 is about applying to renounce nationality. Nobody is applying to renounce nationality here.

 

Article 9 is about Chinese national who then acquires foreign nationality voluntarily. The people we are talking about were born with Chinese nationality and other nationalities at the same time automatically at birth. Automatic nationality at birth is not voluntary, and is not "acquired". Anyway, you are not disagreeing with this because you are claiming that somehow they lose Chinese nationality if they do not "choose" when they are 18, which presupposes that they had Chinese nationality before 18.

 

I was responding to your claim that somehow these people who already have Chinese nationality at birth, that something will happen to their Chinese nationality if they do not "choose" when they are 18 or something. None of what you quoted relates to this thing that supposedly happens at 18. In fact, what you are saying contradicts Article 14, which says that Chinese nationality can only be lost through Article 9 (voluntarily acquiring another nationality) or by applying to renounce, neither of which has anything to do with age 18.

[Randy W]

 

 

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship when they reach legal age.

 

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship at 18.

 

 

Randy W:

After the age of 18, they would need to APPLY to have their citizenship re-instated.

 

 

 

Article 14 - "Applications of persons under the age of 18 may be filed on their behalf by their parents or other legal representatives."

 

Article 9 - Any Chinese national who has settled abroad and who has been naturalized as a foreign national or has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality.

 

Yeah so? I don't see the relevance.

 

Article 14 is about applying to renounce nationality. Nobody is applying to renounce nationality here.

 

Article 9 is about Chinese national who then acquires foreign nationality voluntarily. The people we are talking about were born with Chinese nationality and other nationalities at the same time automatically at birth. Automatic nationality at birth is not voluntary, and is not "acquired". Anyway, you are not disagreeing with this because you are claiming that somehow they lose Chinese nationality if they do not "choose" when they are 18, which presupposes that they had Chinese nationality before 18.

 

I was responding to your claim that somehow these people who already have Chinese nationality at birth, that something will happen to their Chinese nationality if they do not "choose" when they are 18 or something. None of what you quoted relates to this thing that supposedly happens at 18. In fact, what you are saying contradicts Article 14, which says that Chinese nationality can only be lost through Article 9 (voluntarily acquiring another nationality) or by applying to renounce, neither of which has anything to do with age 18.

 

 

 

Once again, you are mincing words rather than adding to the subject.

 

What happens at age 18 is that their parents can no longer sign a Declaration of Nationality. Yes, a "Choice" is made for those who have a choice to be made. One or the other (under Chinese law). Their parents can no longer make that choice for them.

 

In the past, however, the "Choice" was made simply by using the American passport, or by applying for an Exit Visa. Under the "new policy", they may be forced to officially renounce Chinese nationality, rather than to passively do so, as has been done in the past.

 

You seem to continually overlook this part of Article 9 - "Any Chinese national who . . . has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality." - this is EXACTLY what they are wanting to do by getting an American passport and exit visa. In this case, it is the parent's decision to make, as per Article 14. At age 18, it will become the child's choice.

 

Prior to the use of the American passport, the "foreign nationality" is not recognized by China - this is what may change with the "new policy" in that it may not be recognized AT ALL until the PRC citizenship is renounced.

[newacct]

 

You seem to continually overlook this part of Article 9 - "Any Chinese national who . . . has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality." - this is EXACTLY what they are wanting to do by getting an American passport and exit visa. In this case, it is the parent's decision to make, as per Article 14. At age 18, it will become the child's choice.

 

Prior to the use of the American passport, the "foreign nationality" is not recognized by China - this is what may change with the "new policy" in that it may not be recognized AT ALL until the PRC citizenship is renounced.

 

Applying for a passport never gets you a nationality. Having that country's nationality is a prerequisite for getting that country's passport. In this case, the children had U.S. nationality automatically at birth, involuntarily. Sure, China doesn't recognize that its citizens possess other nationalities (this is Article 3), but that would mean they don't recognize it both before and after you get a passport. It would contradict that article if China can "selectively" recognize other nationalities sometimes but not other times so that they can "consider" you to have gotten another nationality when you get a passport, when there was actually no change in your nationality status (you've always had that nationality). It would be a bastardization of the meaning of "acquiring foreign nationality" if they can redefine it so that you can "acquire" it even though you've already had it your whole life.

[Randy W]

 

 

You seem to continually overlook this part of Article 9 - "Any Chinese national who . . . has acquired foreign nationality of his own free will shall automatically lose Chinese nationality." - this is EXACTLY what they are wanting to do by getting an American passport and exit visa. In this case, it is the parent's decision to make, as per Article 14. At age 18, it will become the child's choice.

 

Prior to the use of the American passport, the "foreign nationality" is not recognized by China - this is what may change with the "new policy" in that it may not be recognized AT ALL until the PRC citizenship is renounced.

 

Applying for a passport never gets you a nationality. Having that country's nationality is a prerequisite for getting that country's passport. In this case, the children had U.S. nationality automatically at birth, involuntarily. Sure, China doesn't recognize that its citizens possess other nationalities (this is Article 3), but that would mean they don't recognize it both before and after you get a passport. It would contradict that article if China can "selectively" recognize other nationalities sometimes but not other times so that they can "consider" you to have gotten another nationality when you get a passport, when there was actually no change in your nationality status (you've always had that nationality). It would be a bastardization of the meaning of "acquiring foreign nationality" if they can redefine it so that you can "acquire" it even though you've already had it your whole life.

 

 

Sorry, guy, but in actuality, that's exactly what happens, as we've seen time and again. Simply applying for a visa, either an exit visa, or at an overseas consulate, with an American passport, has gotten Chinese passports and hukous revoked.

 

It would be an interesting exercise to try to hold the Chinese authorities to your English language interpretation of their laws, but it REALLY gets old here.

[ama537621]

Randy,

 

We hope to file for a visa in her US passport as soon as we land. Our hope is that they void her Chinese passport and revoke her Hukou at the same time. I do not want her to grow up here there is to much pollution Shanghai consulate is showing a PMI 2.5 of 504.

[Chiranth]

Interesting issues here – it is complicated to understand how the question of US and foreign passports are dealt with when it comes to exiting the country so it is important to start early in the process of finding out about visa and travel requirements. Even if the process seems straightforward, changes can be made that affect you – often at the last minute – so it helps to have a space of time to cope with the changes.

[Carl]

Hello all, I've been hanging around at the CFV, so I haven't been around here, but even though Lexi was born here, recent events may have some effect.

 

Before we came back to China, Ying became a naturalized citizen, so her Chinese passport was invalidated and she has more than a few Chinese visas and residence permits in her US passport. When we applied for our last residence permits, the computer in Nanjing spit out that her Hoku in Yanji was never invalidated and she never formally renounced her Chinese citizenship, despite the fact the Chinese consulates in Houston and in Hong Kong issued her visas. So she had our HR department send her brother in Yanji her passport so he could go the local PSB and file the proper paperwork and then send it back to our HR.

 

When we went to register Lexi's birth, the officer at the consulate said the fact Ying and I were both US citizens made the determination of Lexi's citizenship status easier. If Ying had still been a Chinese citizen, it would have been a more difficult process. Her certificate says she is a natural born US citizen because we are too. In joking, I asked if she was eligible to be president even though she was born in China he said he didn't know.

 

When the controversy of Ted Cruz's birth came up the article I read cited the "The Naturalization Act of 1750" which clearly stated that Children born abroad to US citizens are considered NATURAL BORN US citizens. Granted the law has been superseded by other laws, but to date it is the only law that defined the status of children of US citizens born abroad.

 

But my question is this, would Lexi still need the PSB to sign off on her leaving China

[Randy W]

Hello all, I've been hanging around at the CFV, so I haven't been around here, but even though Lexi was born here, recent events may have some effect.

 

Before we came back to China, Ying became a naturalized citizen, so her Chinese passport was invalidated and she has more than a few Chinese visas and residence permits in her US passport. When we applied for our last residence permits, the computer in Nanjing spit out that her Hoku in Yanji was never invalidated and she never formally renounced her Chinese citizenship, despite the fact the Chinese consulates in Houston and in Hong Kong issued her visas. So she had our HR department send her brother in Yanji her passport so he could go the local PSB and file the proper paperwork and then send it back to our HR.

 

When we went to register Lexi's birth, the officer at the consulate said the fact Ying and I were both US citizens made the determination of Lexi's citizenship status easier. If Ying had still been a Chinese citizen, it would have been a more difficult process. Her certificate says she is a natural born US citizen because we are too. In joking, I asked if she was eligible to be president even though she was born in China he said he didn't know.

 

When the controversy of Ted Cruz's birth came up the article I read cited the "The Naturalization Act of 1750" which clearly stated that Children born abroad to US citizens are considered NATURAL BORN US citizens. Granted the law has been superseded by other laws, but to date it is the only law that defined the status of children of US citizens born abroad.

 

But my question is this, would Lexi still need the PSB to sign off on her leaving China

 

 

Hi, Carl. What is relevant is what the Chinese consider her (Lexi) under their Nationality Law of the People's Republic of China and the policies that they have followed or will follow.

 

If Lexi has an American passport, which already has a Chinese visa in it (with an entry stamp for her current stay), that's all the documentation she needs. If she has (or will acquire) a blank passport, she will need an exit visa from the PSB in order to leave the country.

 

What you say seems to indicate that Lexi was born to two American citizen parents, and is NOT registered in her mother's hukou. If that's the case, I doubt she will have any problem at all. If she IS in the hukou or your wife was NOT an American citizen at the time of birth, they MAY require you to formally renounce her Chinese citizenship before they will recognize her American passport and issue either an exit visa OR a return visa.

 

You need to ask the PSB for specifics, as they will make the determination as to whether to issue the exit visa.

[ama537621]

Update,

 

Yesterday Yuan and I went to the Shanghai Consulate for Emily's visa. It was a good thing that Yuan went because I would not of been allowed to enter the visa area to finish Emily's visa. That was a little item that was not provided by the ACS when I emailed them about the process. But the interview was very easy and painless. Yuan showed them Emily's US passport, Chinese passport, my passport and Yuan's GC told them we want to take our daughter to the US and they said no problem. We should have her Chinese passport back within a week with the Pro Forma visa issued.

 

There was at least 1 other person visiting the ACS with a visa related issue. It seems that the Chinese Govt is enforcing a lot of rules/laws that have been on the books but were largely ignored by the local offices processing paperwork. For example when I arrived last may my work visa and employment book took about 2 weeks to process. Now they keep the passport for 21 days regardless of when the local office actually finishes the paperwork.

 

Now we only have to contend with getting a Chinese visa added to her US passport when we get back to the states.

[Randy W]

 

Update,

 

Yesterday Yuan and I went to the Shanghai Consulate for Emily's visa. It was a good thing that Yuan went because I would not of been allowed to enter the visa area to finish Emily's visa. That was a little item that was not provided by the ACS when I emailed them about the process. But the interview was very easy and painless. Yuan showed them Emily's US passport, Chinese passport, my passport and Yuan's GC told them we want to take our daughter to the US and they said no problem. We should have her Chinese passport back within a week with the Pro Forma visa issued.

 

There was at least 1 other person visiting the ACS with a visa related issue. It seems that the Chinese Govt is enforcing a lot of rules/laws that have been on the books but were largely ignored by the local offices processing paperwork. For example when I arrived last may my work visa and employment book took about 2 weeks to process. Now they keep the passport for 21 days regardless of when the local office actually finishes the paperwork.

 

Now we only have to contend with getting a Chinese visa added to her US passport when we get back to the states.

 

I'm going to guess here that you were inappropriately denied admission by a Chinese guard. When this happens, you can appeal to an American consulate officer and gain entry.

 

Americans are allowed into the consulate at any time upon presentation of their American passport.

 

Even so, your presence was not necessary, so it was probably the expedient thing to do.

[ama537621]

They let me in for the ACS appointment that I made but would not let me go to the visa area. the shanghai visa and ACS are on the same floor of the office/mall. the ACS is a turn to the left and into a small room the visa section is straight ahead. It is actually possible to walk straight thru and get to the visa area if you really wanted to.

 

I was a little pissed that I was not informed about this ahead of time. Honestly I should of known this from dealing with GUZ so partly my fault. But since Yuan was there I went with the flow and chilled in the waiting room for American citizen services. It only took Yuan 5 minutes from the time I sat down until she came back in hit the with appointment button for ACS 4 more minutes we were called to the window and they said no problem 1 week.

 

From what Yuan said the interviewing officer had seen a lot of these in the last 4 weeks.

[ama537621]

Update, Visa in hand, unless my eyes are deceiving me they gave her a 1 year Multi entry visa. I was expecting to have to file for a Chinese visa in her US passport when we went state side for our visit. Must be my letter saying that we were visiting for 2 weeks and then were coming back to finish my work contract let them make it Multi-Entry.

 

Now we just have to worry about Yuan's time out of country. They only gave her a 1 year reentry permit which expires in mid Feb. She should be ok on this trip back. But when we return in April they could give us crap for being out of the country for almost 1 year, then another 2.5 month's. on her 2 year GC.

[Randy W]

 

Update, Visa in hand, unless my eyes are deceiving me they gave her a 1 year Multi entry visa. I was expecting to have to file for a Chinese visa in her US passport when we went state side for our visit. Must be my letter saying that we were visiting for 2 weeks and then were coming back to finish my work contract let them make it Multi-Entry.

 

Now we just have to worry about Yuan's time out of country. They only gave her a 1 year reentry permit which expires in mid Feb. She should be ok on this trip back. But when we return in April they could give us crap for being out of the country for almost 1 year, then another 2.5 month's. on her 2 year GC.

 

 

 

Remember that this is an American visa issued to an American citizen. Any foreign (to China) citizen should be given full rights of travel, unless they are being detained for some reason.

 

I can imagine that this is just the first step toward ironing out that policy. Very bizarre, especially that we have to be the ones to grant that right.

 

But good job!

[ama537621]

New question,

 

Would you just use her multi entry visa and go thru the visitor line in ORD, or get her US passport stamped and file for the Chinese visa in her us passport?

 

With us only staying 2.5 weeks I am leaning on using the visitor line, filling out the form for Yuan and I, and the seperate form for Emily. This will save the hassle of getting the Chinese visa for her to reenter China.