***New policy for chinese born baby for exit***

[ama537621]

Randy,

 

We did not register her in the Hukou until they refused to issue the exit visa. Xingning is 30 hours by train or 18 hours by plane and train from Shanghai. So when they said the policy had been changed we went back to Xingning and had her registered. We applied for her Chinese passport the next day. Shanghai consulate has a visa question open hour every Tuesday afternoon. I will head up to the city and ask them directly. i did not see an option for the pro forma visa application on CGI's website.

 

With my luck running the way it is lately I will be the first person to try it and have a huge problem.

[Randy W]

Randy,

 

We did not register her in the Hukou until they refused to issue the exit visa. Xingning is 30 hours by train or 18 hours by plane and train from Shanghai. So when they said the policy had been changed we went back to Xingning and had her registered. We applied for her Chinese passport the next day. Shanghai consulate has a visa question open hour every Tuesday afternoon. I will head up to the city and ask them directly. i did not see an option for the pro forma visa application on CGI's website.

 

With my luck running the way it is lately I will be the first person to try it and have a huge problem.

 

 

Wow! That's nasty! I hope you can straighten it out.

 

Did you have an American passport for her when you applied for the exit visa? It's not clear that there IS a "Pro Forma" visa. You may have to work with the consulate on that.

 

If you travel on a visa in her Chinese passport, you will probably need to return on the Chinese passport.

[ama537621]

Randy,

 

Shanghai Consulate has already replied to my email I sent on Saturday evening. There was 2 replies one was from a Chinese employee with the usual issues with translation. the other one was from the ACS unit itself. I have copied and pasted the email from the ACS.

 

Now I just need to find out if the airline will allow her name to be Chinese on the outbound flight and English on the return when we have a Chinese visa added to her US passport while we are in the states.

 

Greetings,

To apply for a pro-forma visa, please complete the application process as described here. Please schedule a normal visa interview appointment AND an appointment with our office, the American Citizen Services (ACS) unit. Please note you and your child will ONLY need to attend the ACS unit appointment. Please be sure to bring your child’s Chinese and American passports, DS-160 application confirmation page with barcode, fee payment receipt, and one passport size photo. Please also bring your child and your passport to your notary/other services ACS appointment. Pro-forma visas are typically issued within a week.

Once the pro-form visa is issued, your daughter should be allowed to depart China using her Chinese passport with U.S. pro-forma visa, and enter the United States using her American passport.

Regards,

 

American Citizen Services (ACS) unit (KL)

Consular Section / U.S. Consulate General, Shanghai

1038 W Nanjing Rd - Westgate Mall, 8th floor

梅龙镇广场8楼 (Méi'lóng'zhèn guǎngchǎng)

Edited December 2, 2013 by ama537621 (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Deleting a post I made a few minutes ago - I doubt you'll have trouble getting a visa for her return to China. You'll need to turn in her Chinese passport with the application for voiding, like they've done with other "new" American citizens.

 

It seems like that "new policy" is a non-starter. VERY bizarre, and a seeming attempt to not even ALLOW her to assume her American citizenship, or leave the country. Unless that "pro forma" visa thing just becomes an artifact of the "new policy".

[ama537621]

I think that they are using this as a way to prevent dual citizenship. With the pro forma visa in her Chinese passport and it scanned into the system upon exit there is no chance that she will be allowed to use the Chinese passport without raising flags in the system. It will show an exit of Chin and no entrance stamp to another country. They might just be using this to close the huge loophole that has existed for years.

 

I was debating on using a visa service for Emily's Chinese visa in her us passport. But it might be better for us to actually take the trip to NYC or DC and apply in person considering this is a strange situation.

 

We will cross the renouncing citizenship if we have to as a last resort. I only have 5 more months in country then we are back to the states for a long time. I do not want to get involved with a lengthy process at this time if I can help it.

[Randy W]

I think that they are using this as a way to prevent dual citizenship. With the pro forma visa in her Chinese passport and it scanned into the system upon exit there is no chance that she will be allowed to use the Chinese passport without raising flags in the system. It will show an exit of Chin and no entrance stamp to another country. They might just be using this to close the huge loophole that has existed for years.

 

I was debating on using a visa service for Emily's Chinese visa in her us passport. But it might be better for us to actually take the trip to NYC or DC and apply in person considering this is a strange situation.

 

We will cross the renouncing citizenship if we have to as a last resort. I only have 5 more months in country then we are back to the states for a long time. I do not want to get involved with a lengthy process at this time if I can help it.

 

 

Under the "Old" system, you would go to the PSB, show them her American passport, and get an exit visa - No hukou, no China citizenship or passport right from the get-go.

 

Under the "New" system - First, you need a hukou, Chinese ID and passport. Then get an American visa and leave. No need to relinquish the Chinese passport until you need to return. The 'pro forma' idea bypasses the need to get a 'real' visa, such as an IR-1 or B-2. Only to revoke the Chinese hukou, ID, and passport once she uses the American passport to return.

 

Somehow I still get the impression that something was lost in communication somewhere.

 

But - go with the flow. Seems like it'll work for you, hopefully without any more issues.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[tsap seui]

Sadly, after years of the sort of crap our State Department has been pulling on their citizens, it appears the Chinese have come down to the US State Department's despicable level.

 

tsap seui

[msittig]

Here's a thread on another forum where people have experienced the same new procedure, to their great inconvenience:

 

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/help-exit-permit-issue-t161350.html

[newacct]

 

No hukou, no China citizenship or passport right from the get-go.

 

It's not possible to not have Chinese citizenship. Just because you don't have a Chinese passport doesn't mean you don't have Chinese citizenship. According to the Article 4 of the Nationality Law of the PRC, a child born in China with at least one Chinese-citizen parent automatically has Chinese citizenship at birth. According to the Article 5 of the Nationality Law of the PRC, a child born outside China with at least one Chinese-citizen parent and whose Chinese-citizen parent(s) have not "settled abroad" automatically has Chinese citizenship at birth. So the children at issue here have Chinese citizenship, whether they like it or not.

 

According to Article 14 of the Nationality Law of the PRC, loss of Chinese citizenship can only occur through a) Article 9, i.e. voluntarily acquiring foreign nationality, or b) applying for renunciation of Chinese citizenship and being approved. Absent either of these, a person cannot lose Chinese citizenship.

[warpedbored]

I vaguely remember reading something that said a child born of one Chinese parent and one foreign parent still retains Chinese citizenship even if they have foreign citizenship as well until they reach legal age. Then they have to chose. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Randy W]

I vaguely remember reading something that said a child born of one Chinese parent and one foreign parent still retains Chinese citizenship even if they have foreign citizenship as well until they reach legal age. Then they have to chose. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Technically, yes. But you can only openly USE one or the other. Once you use a Chinese visa in an American passport to enter China, your passport is voided, and, in most cases, you are removed from the hukou (although some have reported that their hukou was retained).

 

After the age of 18, they would need to APPLY to have their citizenship re-instated.

 

But this policy talked about here will REQUIRE a newborn to get both Chinese and American passports in order to travel on the American passport. The Chinese passport will then be voided once a return visa is applied for.

 

They could travel back to China on the Chinese passport, but getting a second American visa may not be so easy.

[Randy W]

 

Here's a thread on another forum where people have experienced the same new procedure, to their great inconvenience:

 

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/help-exit-permit-issue-t161350.html

 

 

This could turn into a real can of worms - major headaches for some travelers. Hopefully, they'll come to their senses.

 

I've said before that I believe the new visa laws taking effect are more for the purpose of standardizing procedures and tightening requirements than for opening new possibilities.

[ama537621]

Randy,

 

I agree I think they are just making a standard rule and trying to keep a better track of their population. With the baby having to be issued to a Hokou and a passport there is no chance the baby can slip thru the system and leave the country without it being logged. With the old system you could take the baby out of the country and they would not know due to the foreign passport.

 

I just got pissed because of the unannounced rule change. I know I broke a hard rule that I should of learned from the K-1 process, NEVER book an airline ticket until all of the paperwork is in hand. But it was pretty cut and dry before apply wait 5 days have the exit book and you are all set.

 

Now I just have to contact the company travel agency and try to get them to change the name for only the Shanghai-ORD portion of the ticket and leave the english name for the rest. I did check with UNITED and they said that if the ticket was purchased thru them that it would be possible. Seems like they see this a lot at their Chinese booking number.

[Randy W]

Here's a thread on another forum where people have experienced the same new procedure, to their great inconvenience:

 

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/help-exit-permit-issue-t161350.html

 

U.K. citizens have for some time been singled out for special treatment. In order to even get a visa to return, they have been required to travel to their home country to get a permit/visa to return until they can renounce their Chinese citizenship at the PSB.

 

It's not clear if this example follows the "old" policy or the "new policy. A sticky wicket either way!

Edited December 3, 2013 by Randy W (see edit history)

[newacct]

I vaguely remember reading something that said a child born of one Chinese parent and one foreign parent still retains Chinese citizenship even if they have foreign citizenship as well until they reach legal age. Then they have to chose. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship when they reach legal age.

 

 

After the age of 18, they would need to APPLY to have their citizenship re-instated.

 

There is nothing in Chinese law or U.S. law that says anything happens to their citizenship at 18.