***New policy for chinese born baby for exit***

[ama537621]

This week the Chinese govt changed the policy for exit of a baby with a us passport and a chinese mother and us citizen father.

They are no longer giving exit and entrance books. We had to file for Emilys chinese pasport. And get a us visa issued to the chinese passport. Even though she has a US passport.
Nedless to say this caused us a lot of isues his week. Since we were near guz trying to file the paperwork we did a quick passport application and tomorrow I will hit the consulate during the open 2 hour friday window time. Hopefullythey will have a easy way to quickly file for and get the visa when the passport arrives.

I broke a rule and purchased the plane tickets for for jan 18. Stupid thing is the baby lap ticket has her English name and her chinese passport has to have the chinese name.

Sorry fir extra typo s tablet is not good for my finger,

[dnoblett]

Trying to remember, did you apply for a China visit visa for child before traveling over there or was child born in China while already there?

[Randy W]

Don't make this complicated. This sounds a LOT like the old policy - the exit visa is simply referred to as a "Chinese passport"

 

No visa is required for entry to the U.S. - she has an American passport. The consulate probably won't issue one.

 

You need to work with the PSB on this - as long as they are telling you she will be able to leave the country, she will be. If they are telling you she needs an American passport, well, yes she does. Get that first - then go back to the PSB. The name difference won't affect anything - she is REQUIRED to have a Chinese name for the "passport".

 

The American Citizens Service window is open every day. You might check for appointments before going, though. I'm not sure if they're open today or tomorrow (Thurs. or Friday), though.

 

Just go with the flow there - so far, you're on track.

[newacct]

The whole problem is caused by the completely non-sensical practice of Chinese exit checks requiring a foreign visa in the person's Chinese passport in order to exit. So what if I don't have a foreign visa in my Chinese passport? If I cannot get into the destination country, that's my problem. The airline conceivably cares (because they are liable for the return flight); that's why I demonstrate to the airline's satisfaction (with the U.S. passport for example) the ability to enter the destination country when I check in. But if the airline is willing to let me board (by the time one gets to the exit checks, one has already passed airline check-in), and I am fine with it, why does China care? It shouldn't. It would force Chinese exit guards to know the entry rules and documents for every country in the world (there are documents other than visas, e.g. Advance Parole, transportation letter, etc.).

 

This creates a Catch-22 for people who hold dual nationality of China and another country (which can happen due to either birth in China or birth abroad), who need to travel from China to one of their other countries of nationality. According to Chinese law, China doesn't recognize that Chinese citizens possess dual nationality, meaning that for someone who holds nationality of China and another country, China only recognizes their Chinese nationality, and not the other nationalities. Hence, the only passport one can use to enter and leave China is the Chinese passport, since the other passports are not recognized in the eyes of China. However, the person's Chinese passport will not have a visa of the country they are going to, since they are a national of that country. So they cannot leave, unless perhaps they go through a third country.

 

Now, suppose you say that the purpose of Chinese exit checks checking for a foreign visa in the Chinese passport is to make sure the person is able to enter the destination country (even though they have no reason to care, suppose they are just curious), okay, the person will say, I can show you how I am able to enter that country: that country's passport. But, the catch is that technically China doesn't recognize that passport since they don't recognize this person's other nationalities, so even if you show them it would be useless. This is my understanding of why the entry/exit permit exists -- an extra bureaucratic hassle to solve this completely unnecessary Catch-22.

[Randy W]

The whole problem is caused by the completely non-sensical practice of Chinese exit checks requiring a foreign visa in the person's Chinese passport in order to exit. So what if I don't have a foreign visa in my Chinese passport? If I cannot get into the destination country, that's my problem. The airline conceivably cares (because they are liable for the return flight); that's why I demonstrate to the airline's satisfaction (with the U.S. passport for example) the ability to enter the destination country when I check in. But if the airline is willing to let me board (by the time one gets to the exit checks, one has already passed airline check-in), and I am fine with it, why does China care? It shouldn't. It would force Chinese exit guards to know the entry rules and documents for every country in the world (there are documents other than visas, e.g. Advance Parole, transportation letter, etc.).

 

This creates a Catch-22 for people who hold dual nationality of China and another country (which can happen due to either birth in China or birth abroad), who need to travel from China to one of their other countries of nationality. According to Chinese law, China doesn't recognize that Chinese citizens possess dual nationality, meaning that for someone who holds nationality of China and another country, China only recognizes their Chinese nationality, and not the other nationalities. Hence, the only passport one can use to enter and leave China is the Chinese passport, since the other passports are not recognized in the eyes of China. However, the person's Chinese passport will not have a visa of the country they are going to, since they are a national of that country. So they cannot leave, unless perhaps they go through a third country.

 

Now, suppose you say that the purpose of Chinese exit checks checking for a foreign visa in the Chinese passport is to make sure the person is able to enter the destination country (even though they have no reason to care, suppose they are just curious), okay, the person will say, I can show you how I am able to enter that country: that country's passport. But, the catch is that technically China doesn't recognize that passport since they don't recognize this person's other nationalities, so even if you show them it would be useless. This is my understanding of why the entry/exit permit exists -- an extra bureaucratic hassle to solve this completely unnecessary Catch-22.

 

 

The Chinese Immigrations Officers check for legal presence. If you are found to not have entered China legally, you can be fined. Administration of this policy is through the PSB - if you LOSE your passport, or happen to have been BORN in China, the PSB will grant you the exit visa as proof of legal presence - the Immigrations Officers simply need to match up a legal entry (or birth) with a legal exit.

 

The airline will decide whether to board you or not based on whether you have the required documentation to enter the destination country. If you don't, they might otherwise find themselves in the position of having to take you back.

 

Presenting a foreign passport to Chinese immigrations can be cause for having the Chinese passport (and even your hukou) revoked.

]

[Randy W]

The exit visa looks something like this

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Randy W (see edit history)

[newacct]

 

The whole problem is caused by the completely non-sensical practice of Chinese exit checks requiring a foreign visa in the person's Chinese passport in order to exit. So what if I don't have a foreign visa in my Chinese passport? If I cannot get into the destination country, that's my problem. The airline conceivably cares (because they are liable for the return flight); that's why I demonstrate to the airline's satisfaction (with the U.S. passport for example) the ability to enter the destination country when I check in. But if the airline is willing to let me board (by the time one gets to the exit checks, one has already passed airline check-in), and I am fine with it, why does China care? It shouldn't. It would force Chinese exit guards to know the entry rules and documents for every country in the world (there are documents other than visas, e.g. Advance Parole, transportation letter, etc.).

 

This creates a Catch-22 for people who hold dual nationality of China and another country (which can happen due to either birth in China or birth abroad), who need to travel from China to one of their other countries of nationality. According to Chinese law, China doesn't recognize that Chinese citizens possess dual nationality, meaning that for someone who holds nationality of China and another country, China only recognizes their Chinese nationality, and not the other nationalities. Hence, the only passport one can use to enter and leave China is the Chinese passport, since the other passports are not recognized in the eyes of China. However, the person's Chinese passport will not have a visa of the country they are going to, since they are a national of that country. So they cannot leave, unless perhaps they go through a third country.

 

Now, suppose you say that the purpose of Chinese exit checks checking for a foreign visa in the Chinese passport is to make sure the person is able to enter the destination country (even though they have no reason to care, suppose they are just curious), okay, the person will say, I can show you how I am able to enter that country: that country's passport. But, the catch is that technically China doesn't recognize that passport since they don't recognize this person's other nationalities, so even if you show them it would be useless. This is my understanding of why the entry/exit permit exists -- an extra bureaucratic hassle to solve this completely unnecessary Catch-22.

 

 

The Chinese Immigrations Officers check for legal presence. If you are found to not have entered China legally, you can be fined. Administration of this policy is through the PSB - if you LOSE your passport, or happen to have been BORN in China, the PSB will grant you the exit visa as proof of legal presence - the Immigrations Officers simply need to match up a legal entry (or birth) with a legal exit.

 

The airline will decide whether to board you or not based on whether you have the required documentation to enter the destination country. If you don't, they might otherwise find themselves in the position of having to take you back.

 

Presenting a foreign passport to Chinese immigrations can be cause for having the Chinese passport (and even your hukou) revoked.

]

 

If you are a Chinese citizen, holding a Chinese passport, why would there be any issue with legal presence in China?

Edited November 29, 2013 by newacct (see edit history)

[Randy W]

 

 

The whole problem is caused by the completely non-sensical practice of Chinese exit checks requiring a foreign visa in the person's Chinese passport in order to exit. So what if I don't have a foreign visa in my Chinese passport? If I cannot get into the destination country, that's my problem. The airline conceivably cares (because they are liable for the return flight); that's why I demonstrate to the airline's satisfaction (with the U.S. passport for example) the ability to enter the destination country when I check in. But if the airline is willing to let me board (by the time one gets to the exit checks, one has already passed airline check-in), and I am fine with it, why does China care? It shouldn't. It would force Chinese exit guards to know the entry rules and documents for every country in the world (there are documents other than visas, e.g. Advance Parole, transportation letter, etc.).

 

This creates a Catch-22 for people who hold dual nationality of China and another country (which can happen due to either birth in China or birth abroad), who need to travel from China to one of their other countries of nationality. According to Chinese law, China doesn't recognize that Chinese citizens possess dual nationality, meaning that for someone who holds nationality of China and another country, China only recognizes their Chinese nationality, and not the other nationalities. Hence, the only passport one can use to enter and leave China is the Chinese passport, since the other passports are not recognized in the eyes of China. However, the person's Chinese passport will not have a visa of the country they are going to, since they are a national of that country. So they cannot leave, unless perhaps they go through a third country.

 

Now, suppose you say that the purpose of Chinese exit checks checking for a foreign visa in the Chinese passport is to make sure the person is able to enter the destination country (even though they have no reason to care, suppose they are just curious), okay, the person will say, I can show you how I am able to enter that country: that country's passport. But, the catch is that technically China doesn't recognize that passport since they don't recognize this person's other nationalities, so even if you show them it would be useless. This is my understanding of why the entry/exit permit exists -- an extra bureaucratic hassle to solve this completely unnecessary Catch-22.

 

 

The Chinese Immigrations Officers check for legal presence. If you are found to not have entered China legally, you can be fined. Administration of this policy is through the PSB - if you LOSE your passport, or happen to have been BORN in China, the PSB will grant you the exit visa as proof of legal presence - the Immigrations Officers simply need to match up a legal entry (or birth) with a legal exit.

 

The airline will decide whether to board you or not based on whether you have the required documentation to enter the destination country. If you don't, they might otherwise find themselves in the position of having to take you back.

 

Presenting a foreign passport to Chinese immigrations can be cause for having the Chinese passport (and even your hukou) revoked.

]

 

If you are a Chinese citizen, holding a Chinese passport, why would there be any issue with legal presence in China?

 

 

 

There wouldn't.

 

The issue of legal presence concerns foreign citizens traveling on foreign passports, such as newborn babies traveling on an American passport.

 

The administration of the exit issues is delegated to the local PSB.

[Randy W]

The exit visa looks something like this

 

http://msittig.wubi.org/imgs/exit-permit-out-china.jpg

http://msittig.wubi.org/imgs/exit-permit-ins-china.jpg

 

I found these images through Google image search and the ShanghaiExpat web site. I believe they are public domain. A little bit of detective work revealed that they originally came from a blog site belonging to a recently active member. Let me know if there are any issues with this.

[newacct]

 

 

 

The whole problem is caused by the completely non-sensical practice of Chinese exit checks requiring a foreign visa in the person's Chinese passport in order to exit. So what if I don't have a foreign visa in my Chinese passport? If I cannot get into the destination country, that's my problem. The airline conceivably cares (because they are liable for the return flight); that's why I demonstrate to the airline's satisfaction (with the U.S. passport for example) the ability to enter the destination country when I check in. But if the airline is willing to let me board (by the time one gets to the exit checks, one has already passed airline check-in), and I am fine with it, why does China care? It shouldn't. It would force Chinese exit guards to know the entry rules and documents for every country in the world (there are documents other than visas, e.g. Advance Parole, transportation letter, etc.).

 

This creates a Catch-22 for people who hold dual nationality of China and another country (which can happen due to either birth in China or birth abroad), who need to travel from China to one of their other countries of nationality. According to Chinese law, China doesn't recognize that Chinese citizens possess dual nationality, meaning that for someone who holds nationality of China and another country, China only recognizes their Chinese nationality, and not the other nationalities. Hence, the only passport one can use to enter and leave China is the Chinese passport, since the other passports are not recognized in the eyes of China. However, the person's Chinese passport will not have a visa of the country they are going to, since they are a national of that country. So they cannot leave, unless perhaps they go through a third country.

 

Now, suppose you say that the purpose of Chinese exit checks checking for a foreign visa in the Chinese passport is to make sure the person is able to enter the destination country (even though they have no reason to care, suppose they are just curious), okay, the person will say, I can show you how I am able to enter that country: that country's passport. But, the catch is that technically China doesn't recognize that passport since they don't recognize this person's other nationalities, so even if you show them it would be useless. This is my understanding of why the entry/exit permit exists -- an extra bureaucratic hassle to solve this completely unnecessary Catch-22.

 

 

The Chinese Immigrations Officers check for legal presence. If you are found to not have entered China legally, you can be fined. Administration of this policy is through the PSB - if you LOSE your passport, or happen to have been BORN in China, the PSB will grant you the exit visa as proof of legal presence - the Immigrations Officers simply need to match up a legal entry (or birth) with a legal exit.

 

The airline will decide whether to board you or not based on whether you have the required documentation to enter the destination country. If you don't, they might otherwise find themselves in the position of having to take you back.

 

Presenting a foreign passport to Chinese immigrations can be cause for having the Chinese passport (and even your hukou) revoked.

]

 

If you are a Chinese citizen, holding a Chinese passport, why would there be any issue with legal presence in China?

 

 

 

There wouldn't.

 

The issue of legal presence concerns foreign citizens traveling on foreign passports, such as newborn babies traveling on an American passport.

 

The administration of the exit issues is delegated to the local PSB.

 

But the fact is, a China-U.S. dual citizen with a Chinese passport with no foreign visa, and a U.S. passport, will be unable to exit China until they get an additional permit.

[Randy W]

 

There wouldn't.

 

The issue of legal presence concerns foreign citizens traveling on foreign passports, such as newborn babies traveling on an American passport.

 

The administration of the exit issues is delegated to the local PSB.

 

 

But the fact is, a China-U.S. dual citizen with a Chinese passport with no foreign visa, and a U.S. passport, will be unable to exit China until they get an additional permit.

 

 

Maintenance of dual citizenship is possible, but not recommended, and NOT the subject of this topic.

 

A dual citizen will need to present their Chinese passport at the overseas consulate in order to get a Chinese visa in the American passport - the Chinese passport will be voided. They will see that the person was born in China and has had no previous Chinese visa

 

The Original Poster here will need to present the exit visa/"Chinese passport" to the Chinese consulate in the U.S. in order to get a visa for the baby for the return to China.

 

But you bring up an interesting point - if someone WERE to get BOTH Chinese and American passports for their child, could they use the American passport at the airline counter to get a boarding pass, and then use the Chinese passport and boarding pass to go through Immigrations? Somehow, I doubt that that would work.

 

Like you say, they need an additional permit - the Exit visa from the PSB.

[msittig]

Yes, the images posted above are hosted publicly on my website and are for helping people to get informed. You're very welcome to use them, and I can second 100% of what Randy has said above.

 

However, if what the original poster said is true, then it's a very confounding and disturbing piece of news. How can an American citizen with a passport apply for a US visa? Could that be illegal?

 

http://travel.state.gov/visa/questions/questions_1253.html#15

 

 

All U.S. citizens, even dual citizens/nationals, must enter and depart the United States using his/her U.S. passport.

 

With our third daughter in Shanghai they even made us renounce her Chinese citizenship before issuing the Entry/Exit permit. That seems like a much saner solution. I hope the original poster can post an update when things get cleared up.

[newacct]

 

A dual citizen will need to present their Chinese passport at the overseas consulate in order to get a Chinese visa in the American passport - the Chinese passport will be voided. They will see that the person was born in China and has had no previous Chinese visa

 

The Original Poster here will need to present the exit visa/"Chinese passport" to the Chinese consulate in the U.S. in order to get a visa for the baby for the return to China.

It should not be possible to issue a Chinese visa to a Chinese citizen, unless they apply to renounce their Chinese nationality.

 

The OP sounds like they are talking about a China-U.S. dual citizen born in China, who has not yet left China. But anyway, the issues in this question apply to all Chinese dual citizens, whether or not they were born in China.

 

 

But you bring up an interesting point - if someone WERE to get BOTH Chinese and American passports for their child, could they use the American passport at the airline counter to get a boarding pass, and then use the Chinese passport and boarding pass to go through Immigrations? Somehow, I doubt that that would work.

 

I know it wouldn't work. But why shouldn't it? The person is a dual citizen due to the nationality laws of the various countries. Why should they have to go through more hassle to exit China?

 

With our third daughter in Shanghai they even made us renounce her Chinese citizenship before issuing the Entry/Exit permit. That seems like a much saner solution. I hope the original poster can post an update when things get cleared up.

This may be the case. But think about it for a moment. A Chinese citizen is forced to renounce Chinese citizenship, or else they can't leave China? Does that sound logical to you?

[ama537621]

Sorry for the short first post.

 

Dan, Emily was born in China, has her US passport, Cert of birth abroad and SS card. The issue we are in is that as of last Monday they are no longer issuing the entry exit books for Children with one Chinese parent and 1 foreign parent. that is what we were told in the Exit bureau in Mezhou They tried to process the paperwork but the computer would not let them, they even called to a higher level and we were still rejected. We were traveling to GUZ anyway and stopped in the ACS there on Friday morning.

 

We were given two options.

1. We can apply for a Pro Forma visa to be put in Emily's Chinese passport. This might be the best option but I need to see if the airline can change the name on the lap child because the Chinese passport will have a different name than her us passport.

2. Since Emily has been registered in Yuan's Hokou she can apply for a Hong Kong travel permit, then we can just go to the airport and us the US passport. I am concerned on this one as there will be no entry stamp in her US passport for arriving in Hong Kong.

 

The second can of worms is that we need to return to China until the middle of April when my overseas work assignment is finished.

USCIS only issued Yuan a 1 year I-131 which expires early February. So we are planning a return for 3 weeks to do some house hunting then return until April when we will move back to the states. So once we do get the baby out we have to apply for a Chinese visa in her US passport to get her back to China again. Which if that is the case we will need to change only the outbound flights name and keep the return in her English name.

 

the sad thing is the K1 and the AOS were a piece of cake. Dealing with the Chinese Govt is driving me crazy.

[Randy W]

Sorry for the short first post.

 

Dan, Emily was born in China, has her US passport, Cert of birth abroad and SS card. The issue we are in is that as of last Monday they are no longer issuing the entry exit books for Children with one Chinese parent and 1 foreign parent. that is what we were told in the Exit bureau in Mezhou They tried to process the paperwork but the computer would not let them, they even called to a higher level and we were still rejected. We were traveling to GUZ anyway and stopped in the ACS there on Friday morning.

 

We were given two options.

1. We can apply for a Pro Forma visa to be put in Emily's Chinese passport. This might be the best option but I need to see if the airline can change the name on the lap child because the Chinese passport will have a different name than her us passport.

2. Since Emily has been registered in Yuan's Hokou she can apply for a Hong Kong travel permit, then we can just go to the airport and us the US passport. I am concerned on this one as there will be no entry stamp in her US passport for arriving in Hong Kong.

 

The second can of worms is that we need to return to China until the middle of April when my overseas work assignment is finished.

USCIS only issued Yuan a 1 year I-131 which expires early February. So we are planning a return for 3 weeks to do some house hunting then return until April when we will move back to the states. So once we do get the baby out we have to apply for a Chinese visa in her US passport to get her back to China again. Which if that is the case we will need to change only the outbound flights name and keep the return in her English name.

 

the sad thing is the K1 and the AOS were a piece of cake. Dealing with the Chinese Govt is driving me crazy.

 

 

Why was she registered in your wife's hukou? My understanding is that that is an either-or option. Since you chose to register her in the hukou, I wonder if that closed the possibility of the exit visa?