I wonder what is their game plan.

[tsap seui]

My soulful plea to anyone with any MFin' sanity in Washington, DC.....

 

Stay out you fools on Capitol HIll. Stop playing the bully by bumping chests with China...and don't you stupid assholes dare let Japan drag us into this farce that will only ruin the world. There will be NO victor in this. You will do more harm to America than you could ever inflict upon China. You sold Japan enough weapons to stand on their own if they want to start a war. Let them fight their own war.

 

Mike, if America stupidly allows Japan (and I won't say what I think about Japan here) to drag us into this, our wives can kiss being able to go visit China goodbye. We'll be lucky if the idiots calling the shots in this country don't round em up if this thing gets hot.

 

I am so sick and tired of America playing policeman. Look at how far playing cop has gotten us. Other than the industrial military complex who else is happy with America's direction? Sending our professional soldiers off to get mired down and picked off one or two at a time while we spend billions of borrowed dollars to fund them? And for what end? Everybody will only go back to fighting once we leave anyhow. That's what they do. I'm sick of being lied to so suits can play soldier with real live men and women who are criminally misused. Those islands have nothing to do with us. If Japan wants them, and if Vietnam and the Philippines want them, then let them work it out.

 

tsap seui

[NUWORLD]

My soulful plea to anyone with any MFin' sanity in Washington, DC.....

 

Stay out you fools on Capitol HIll. Stop playing the bully by bumping chests with China...and don't you stupid assholes dare let Japan drag us into this farce that will only ruin the world. There will be NO victor in this. You will do more harm to America than you could ever inflict upon China. You sold Japan enough weapons to stand on their own if they want to start a war. Let them fight their own war.

 

Mike, if America stupidly allows Japan (and I won't say what I think about Japan here) to drag us into this, our wives can kiss being able to go visit China goodbye. We'll be lucky if the idiots calling the shots in this country don't round em up if this thing gets hot.

 

I am so sick and tired of America playing policeman. Look at how far playing cop has gotten us. Other than the industrial military complex who else is happy with America's direction? Sending our professional soldiers off to get mired down and picked off one or two at a time while we spend billions of borrowed dollars to fund them? And for what end? Everybody will only go back to fighting once we leave anyhow. That's what they do. I'm sick of being lied to so suits can play soldier with real live men and women who are criminally misused. Those islands have nothing to do with us. If Japan wants them, and if Vietnam and the Philippines want them, then let them work it out.

 

tsap seui

 

 

 

um...... My friend, this is what I'm worried about.

Not being able to go home and see my /her family.

 

Though i have not opened my true past life to much here on the forum.

(You know some of it) I'm no stranger to blood and guts and death.

I'm younger than you but was very active in 91 over in the sands

 

I would never wish this on anyone, But....... God forbid..... and i pray it won't come to what you and i know.

I would hate to see the sun rise in the west.

 

There has to be a place on this planet we can be safe and enjoy the time we have left with family.

I just can't find it......... If ya know of this place.... I'll buy the beers.

[warpedbored]

I don't think China is blameless here. I'm beginning to wonder if this isn't all an excuse to take revenge on Japan. They're the ones who decided to draw new lines across long established international shipping lanes. China wants to dominate the entire region and doesn't like us having friends there.

[Randy W]

Defying China, U.S. bombers and Japanese planes fly through new air zone

http://news.yahoo.com/defying-china-u-bombers-fly-east-china-sea-025827956--finance.html

 

"If the United States conducts two or three more flights like this, China will be forced to respond. If China can only respond verbally it would be humiliating," said Sun Zhe, a professor at the Center for U.S.-China Relations at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

 

"The concept of the paper tiger is very important. All sides face it. Japan and the United States don't want to be forced into a position where they are paper tigers. China is even less eager to be a paper tiger," Sun added.

 

China's Defense Ministry said it had monitored the entire progress of the U.S. bombers through the zone. A Pentagon spokesman said the planes had neither been observed nor contacted by Chinese aircraft during Monday's flight.

 

Following a request from the Japanese government, Japan Airlines and ANA Holdings said they stopped giving flight plans and other information to Chinese authorities on Wednesday. Neither airline had experienced any problems when passing through the zone, they added.

 

Japan's aviation industry association said it had concluded there was no threat to passenger safety by ignoring the Chinese demands, JAL said. Both JAL and ANA posted notices on their websites informing its passengers of their decision.

 

[danb]

First I have to agree with everyone who has express fears of what will happen to our love ones in China. It is not a good situation. Whose to blame for it? That is could be a very interesting topic. There could be a lot of finger pointing on that one.

Whether we should get involved or not involved. I believe we should get involve. We as the United States and as We as a citizen of the world community should get involved. We should never let it get to the point where China and Japan start trading shot across theeir bows. We should never let it get even close to that.

I have a couple of questions: if China is allow to take over those little island unopposed. Will they stop? Will they be happy and not looked at the other islands that they dispute ownership. Will they leave the Philippine territories alone? God know the Philippine has their hands full already with the aftermath of Haiyun. After that who would stop them from sailing over to the territories that they have disputes over with Vietnam.

I find it interesting that 70 or 80 some years ago, that we waited until 1941 instead of getting involved in 1931 when Japan invaded Manchuria. That time we helped China out. Why is that? Did we wait too long? Should we had stayed out of that part of China. If we did stay out of their fight who would be charge today?

I still hope that we can help a peaceful solution to this mess.

 

Again I ask what is their game plan. Do they want to go to War with a Japan backed by the US? Are they just funning around? Are they probing? Are they challenging? Or what? What is their game plan? I don't know. Danb

Edited November 27, 2013 by danb (see edit history)

[Randy W]

They bit off more than they can chew - military action is NOT an option, but they stand to lose a great deal of face internally for having made an announcement they can't enforce

 

http://news.mod.gov.cn/headlines/2013-11/27/content_4476676.htm

 

Translation - http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.mod.gov.cn%2Fheadlines%2F2013-11%2F27%2Fcontent_4476676.htm

 

 

From the New York Times

U.S. B-52 Flight Prompts Indignant Reaction in China

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/11/26/u-s-b-52-flight-prompts-indignant-reaction-in-china/?emc=edit_tnt_20131127&tntemail0=y

“If the air defense zone is just a temporary, spoken thing, without means to handle other countries provocatively entering without permission, then we’d be better off not setting it up, because it’s completely unnecessary,” Liu Zhuming, a commentator based in the southwestern city of Chongqing, wrote on his Sina Weibo microblog.

 

The online reaction highlights a quandary for China in the continuing territorial dispute with Japan over islands claimed by both countries in the East China Sea. While steps that could strengthen China’s claim to the islands known as Diaoyu in China and the Senkaku in Japan are welcomed by much of the Chinese public, they also heighten expectations for government resolve.

 

“If the Chinese military doesn’t do anything about aircraft that don’t obey the commands to identify themselves in the zone, it will face international ridicule,” wrote Ni Fangliu, a historian and investigative journalist with more than two million followers on his Tencent microblog account.

 

[Randy W]

A Chinese perspective from a Global Times commentary

 

US containment frays China's nerves

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/827508.shtml?utm_content=buffer7820b&utm_source=buffer&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=Buffer#.UpQD5ifv0gQ

 

The central task of the Communist Party of China is to maintain the socialist system through improving the living standards of the Chinese people. China does not have the intention to create conflicts with its neighboring countries and the US, because any military confrontations could interrupt China's economic development.

 

. . .

 

Many Chinese scholars are convinced that the US will not give up the policy of containing China. More and more people inside the circle of Chinese foreign policy decision-making process are convinced that China's security can only be guaranteed through military and economic power.

 

. . .

 

By Zhou Jinghao

The author is associate professor of contemporary China at Hobart and William Smith Colleges in New York.

 

[warpedbored]

Not much has been said about the economic aspect of this quagmire. We owe China a lot of money. We also buy a lot of stuff from them. If we went to war with China it would probably bankrupt both nations.

[Scott@Hong]

Religion and Natural Resources: They should be listed as the number 1 killers in the world ahead of heart disease.

 

The islands in question have no value, it is what is under the islands and the surrounding water everyone is after, a huge natural gas field sits below that area.

 

So now we have another case of countries bickering over natrual resources. Another case of not paying attention to history and why history always repeats itself.

 

The Middle East has been a quagmire for 100's of years because of religion and Oil/Gas

Japan attacked the USA during WWII because we shut off their oil supplies and they were running out.

Germany attacked the rest of the world twice because of resources they did not have within their borders, and ironically only lost both wars because they ran out of Oil/Gas.

 

It is almost impossible in history to find a war that was not fought over natural resources or religious beliefs even going back the Crusades.

 

Abolish religion and someone please finally invent room temperature fusion and wars would cease almost overnight

[Mick]

I don't think war with China is likely, given the ways our economies are so intimately tied together. Further, as the above linked article points out, China does not want to do anything that might thwart its ongoing development. However, with that said, I think that in any international conflict where China has a stake, like this insane dispute over these big rocks in the China Sea, care must be taken to always give China an avenue out of the situation without loss of face. As crazy as it may seem, I think loss of face is so important to these folks that it is the one thing that could trump reason, fear of potential defeat, and even economic considerations. That's the one aspect of all this that concerns me most - that somehow China gets backed into a corner and there is no face-saving avenue of escape. Yes, I understand this makes no sense from a western perspective, but to the Chinese, it might indeed make perfect sense.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Mick (see edit history)

[NUWORLD]

This was just posted in the news today.

 

 

China says it monitored defiant US bomber flights

 

BEIJING (AP) - China acknowledged Wednesday it let two American B-52 bombers fly unhindered through its newly declared air defense zone in the East China Sea despite its earlier threat to take defensive measures against unidentified foreign aircraft.

 

The U.S. flights, which tested the Chinese zone for the first time since it was declared over the weekend, raised questions about Beijing's determination to enforce its requirement that foreign aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions.

 

China's lack of any action suggested that it was merely playing out a diplomatic game to establish ownership over the area rather than provoke an international incident.

The flights followed days of angry rhetoric and accusations over Beijing's move, designed to assert Chinese claims to a group of uninhabited islands controlled by Japan.

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by NUWORLD (see edit history)

[warpedbored]

I don't think war with China is likely, given the ways our economies are so intimately tied together. Further, as the above linked article points out, China does not want to do anything that might thwart its ongoing development. However, with that said, I think that in any international conflict where China has a stake, like this insane dispute over these big rocks in the China Sea, care must be taken to always give China an avenue out of the situation without loss of face. As crazy as it may seem, I think loss of face is so important to these folks that it is the one thing that could trump reason, fear of potential defeat, and even economic considerations. That's the one aspect of all this that concerns me most - that somehow China gets backed into a corner and there is no face-saving avenue of escape. Yes, I understand this makes no sense from a western perspective, but to the Chinese, it might indeed make perfect sense.

This is precisely what worries me too Mick. The Japanese don't like losing face anymore than the Chinese. The US can't afford to look weak here either. Korea, Japan and the Philippines all depend on us for protection and China has been ruffling their feathers as well.

[amberjack1234]

Yep, face is a big issue for all concerned for sure. The other thing is that it's not over the islands at all. They are just landmarks. It's what's under the sea floor that everything is about. I am sure that all parties could care less if the US were to nuke the islands out of existence. The natural gas/petroleum energies is what it's all about. At least that is the way that I understand it.

 

Larry

[Randy W]

China's response to the B-52 maneuver

it's just psychology - http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/828213.shtml...

Tokyo and Washington are unlikely to accept China's ADIZ through which Beijing will master all the US and Japanese military activities over the East China Sea. In actuality China will not inform them of its aircraft passing through their Air Defense Identification Zones. Not identical to airspace, the ADIZ is supposed to devote its role of identification to safeguard national security.

The air defense zone, however, has become a trigger of a political row over the East China Sea because it overlaps with the Japanese ADIZ over the Diaoyu Islands. Objectively speaking, China's establishment of the zone is conducive to identifying aircraft and thus avoiding unexpected frictions, but takes on another implication in public opinion.

 

. . .

 

Beijing needs to reform its information release mechanism to win the psychological battles waged by Washington and Tokyo. Increasing morale and cohesion of the Chinese people constitutes the fundamental cornerstone to properly handle diplomatic relations.

 

[Guest ExChinaExpat]

China's response to the B-52 maneuver

 

it's just psychology - http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/828213.shtml...

 

 

Beijing needs to reform its information release mechanism to win the psychological battles waged by Washington and Tokyo. Increasing morale and cohesion of the Chinese people constitutes the fundamental cornerstone to properly handle diplomatic relations.

 

 

The CCP hasn't a clue in how to handle this, either in their own country or on the world stage. The days are gone where China could simply kill all the stories and people who refuse to tow the party line in exchange for 24/7 propaganda served to a starving audience. This isn't as much about face as it is stupidity. China will never win this argument on the world stage, regardless how many stories they try to tell to outsiders. China is behaving like a spoiled child who holds their breath until they turn blue. They're embarrassing themselves now.

Edited November 28, 2013 by GuangDongExpat (see edit history)