Is US Citizenship worth it?

[tsap seui]

Thank YOU mike. Two boys under the age of 4, at 66!!!! Buddy, you are a better man than me. I could handle that if they were grandkids....but but but...LOL

 

I know you'll love it....at least you'll never have a boring moment. Me? I'd pay good money for boring moments. You're welcome to come visit this rural area of Pennsyltucky, sit on the veranda and help me watch the grass grow, the rabbits play, and the robins have sex with the mountain views looming, anytime you are having too much excitement....then again, you have that already in your other home.....LOL

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

Congrats, Mike! Good job!

[NewDay2006]

This is a good topic, I'm just reading a year later.

 

My wife is into her 6th year of her 10 year visa. She doesn't seem interested in getting US citizenship. One reason, she says she doesn't want to pay for a visa when she wants to visit China.

 

I heard mention in this thread there maybe issues, in getting her SS beneifits and maybe 401K money. Can anyone elaborate

 

Prior to her current status expiring, she will just get another 10 years, I'm thinking. We never really talked about it seriously, but maybe now is the time to do this.

 

Her Dad has properties in China which will be left to her and her sister... she always says we will retire there.... I can't wrap my mind around that one, yet

Edited March 27, 2014 by Randy W
sp. (see edit history)

[Randy W]

This is a good topic, I'm just reading a year later.

 

My wife is into her 6th year of her 10 year visa. She doesn't seem interested in getting US citizenship. One reason, she says she doesn't want to pay for a visa when she wants to visit China.

 

I heard mention in this thread there maybe issues, in getting her SS beneifits and maybe 401K money. Can anyone elaborate

 

Prior to her current status expiring, she will just get another 10 years, I'm thinking. We never really talked about it seriously, but maybe now is the time to do this.

 

Her Dad has properties in Chinam which will be left to her and her sister... she always says we will retire there.... I can't wrap my mind around that one, yet

 

Hello, Charles! Welcome back!

 

The spouse of an American citizen is entitled to draw benefits based on the citizen's earnings record (regardless of citizenship). If she were to move back to China, she would lose the benefits, UNLESS she had been married to you WHILE living in the U.S. for 5 years - I'm sure she's got that covered.

 

So yes - when she reaches her retirement age (early retirement at 62, full retirement at 66, 67, whatever her retirement age is) she will be able to draw 50% of whatever amount you draw. Then, after your death, she can continue to draw her full benefit amount.

 

This is true even if you/her move to China.

 

The 401K money is YOUR money, with no restrictions (except for the taxation or anything imposed by your company such as years of service), and may be willed to her upon your death. What I did with mine was to roll it all over into a single IRA.We can withdraw up to (over) $40,000 a year from SS and the IRA combined completely tax free.

[NewDay2006]

Thanks Randy. Good to be back. This will be her 5th year working in the USA. I'm puttiing a mix of 401k and Roth aside... I know the Roth will be tax free. My wife is just putting in a company 401k,... she works for Wal-mart.

We really never talked too much about her being a citizen... she is one of those ladies that China is better... I'm not sure I would feel comfortable living there for long periods of time... especially as I get older. I'm not particularlly comfortable with thier medical... not that ours is perfect, but I can understand them here, there I would depend on my wife.... plus, I have 3 kids and 4 grand kids here and I'm sure more to come at least from my 18 year old son.... none now, he's probably still a virgin, at least the last time I asked. but he will be a catch one day.

[tsap seui]

Hey Charles, so good to see you post again. I have thought about you and hoped you were doing well.

 

My wife isn't too hip on becoming a citizen in the near future, not that there is anything wrong with getting her citizenship she just has some properties over in CHina, etc and she doesn't want to give up her houkou or national ID card just yet. Once her folks pass away she may sell off her homes and become a citizen....who knows, plenty of time and much water to go under the bridge before she decides that.

 

Randy is right about those SS issues. Your wife can draw 50% of yours at her age 62 (and she will be locked into that figure once she starts it, even when she gets to her full retirement age)., but like he said, once she gets to her full retirement age she can draw her full figure if it is more than the half of yours that she is already pulling.

 

I hope your step son is doing well, I remember the concerns you had years ago. You are one of the good guys, I wish you the best in you and your family life, Charles.

 

tsap seui

[Randy W]

Hey Charles, so good to see you post again. I have thought about you and hoped you were doing well.

 

My wife isn't too hip on becoming a citizen in the near future, not that there is anything wrong with getting her citizenship she just has some properties over in CHina, etc and she doesn't want to give up her houkou or national ID card just yet. Once her folks pass away she may sell off her homes and become a citizen....who knows, plenty of time and much water to go under the bridge before she decides that.

 

Randy is right about those SS issues. Your wife can draw 50% of yours at her age 62 (and she will be locked into that figure once she starts it, even when she gets to her full retirement age)., but like he said, once she gets to her full retirement age she can draw her full figure if it is more than the half of yours that she is already pulling.

 

I hope your step son is doing well, I remember the concerns you had years ago. You are one of the good guys, I wish you the best in you and your family life, Charles.

 

tsap seui

 

Let's see if we can't pin this down here with some nice round figures here. As I understand it, assuming her benefits are less than 1/2 of yours . . .

 

Say the citizen hubby draws $10,000 per year. Then at age 62, she can draw early retirement based on that - at 50% less a little for retiring early - around $3750 per year. Or if she waits until her full retirement age, she could draw the full 50% at $5000 per year.

 

Once you croak, her benefits go to the full $10,000 per year that you were drawing.

 

Am I right, or does it not matter whether she draws at age 62 or waits for her full retirement age? Or do her benefits not change when you die?

 

I'm confused.

[tsap seui]

 

Hey Charles, so good to see you post again. I have thought about you and hoped you were doing well.

 

My wife isn't too hip on becoming a citizen in the near future, not that there is anything wrong with getting her citizenship she just has some properties over in CHina, etc and she doesn't want to give up her houkou or national ID card just yet. Once her folks pass away she may sell off her homes and become a citizen....who knows, plenty of time and much water to go under the bridge before she decides that.

 

Randy is right about those SS issues. Your wife can draw 50% of yours at her age 62 (and she will be locked into that figure once she starts it, even when she gets to her full retirement age)., but like he said, once she gets to her full retirement age she can draw her full figure if it is more than the half of yours that she is already pulling.

 

I hope your step son is doing well, I remember the concerns you had years ago. You are one of the good guys, I wish you the best in you and your family life, Charles.

 

tsap seui

 

Let's see if we can't pin this down here with some nice round figures here. As I understand it, assuming her benefits are less than 1/2 of yours . . .

 

Say the citizen hubby draws $10,000 per year. Then at age 62, she can draw early retirement based on that - at 50% less a little for retiring early - around $3750 per year. Or if she waits until her full retirement age, she could draw the full 50% at $5000 per year.

 

Once you croak, her benefits go to the full $10,000 per year that you were drawing.

 

Am I right, or does it not matter whether she draws at age 62 or waits for her full retirement age? Or do her benefits not change when you die?

 

I'm confused.

 

Missed the dead part Randy, sorry.

 

At age 62 they can start taking 50% of your SS benefit. They are locked into the rate they start, forever, or until your death.

 

At age 60 they can start taking your survivor benefit..the full amount of your SS benefit.

 

Yes, should they have started taking 50% of your SS benefit at 62 they can convert to the full survivor benefit at any age upon your death.

 

My wife can't even start her own retirement benefit as a landlord. The IRS won't let her pay SS taxes on that sort of income. Being a Leona Helmsly doesn't keep her busy enough anyhow so she's gonna start a business of her own. Something to do with spinnin' terlet seats hung from the ceilings in various bedrooms within our home, and importing lovely illegal Asians from New York??? The Happy Ending Terlet Seat Ride??? The woman has a mind of her own, I just do as I'm told. I did sneak in advice to pay her income tax even on the cash customers.

 

Maybe I can post some photos of "Best Looking Asian Wimmin Who Ride Terlet Seats from the People's Daily". Pole dancin' of a hole nuther sort. And finest kind of pole dancin' IMHO.

 

tsap seui

I'm becoming a kept man. SWMBO is even buying me a dadgum car.

Edited March 28, 2014 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[Randy W]

Thanks for the clarification. But that 50% is reduced if she takes "early retirement" on your benefits - at age 62 instead of waiting for her full retirement age. I think this can reduce her benefits by 25% or more

 

Retirement Planner: Benefits For Your Spouse

 

How Much Will My Spouse Receive?

If your spouse is under full retirement age and qualifies on his or her own record, we will pay that amount first. But if he or she also qualifies for a higher amount as a spouse, they'll get a combination of benefits that equals that higher amount. If he or she begins receiving benefits:

• between age 62 and their full retirement age, the amount will be permanently reduced by a percentage based on the number of months up to his or her full retirement age.

  If your spouse is under full retirement age and works while receiving benefits, his or her benefits may be affected by the retirement earnings test.

• at his or her full retirement age, their benefit can be equal to one-half of your full retirement amount.

  Note: The benefits for your spouse do not include any delayed retirement credits you may receive.

If your spouse will receive a pension for work not covered by Social Security such as government or foreign employment, the amount of his or her Social Security benefits on your record may be reduced.

 

 

I'll say also that it's easy enough to start your benefits online these days. No appearance at the SS office is necessary - EXCEPT that your spouse may be required to show herself, especially if she needs to prove that she satisfied the 5 year residence requirement.

 

My understanding is that the nearest SS office to China is in Manila.

[KevinNelson]

From my perspective, U.S. citizenship is worth it. Reading the tea leave here in China, there is an ominous cloud on the horizon. My wife and a lot of Chinese agree, it is not a matter of "If..." but of "When..." We do not want anything to cause us to be separated if we are in China when that cloud bursts. If it burst and my wife is a Chinese citizen, I may not be able to leave China with her. Neither of us really like that idea.

 

After I pass on, should she come back as a U.S. citizen, she would get a Chinese S-2 visa, which would allow her to stay with her relatives. Because she is a native of the area, it is unlikely she would be "caught" working illegally in many types of jobs.

[Lee VD]

Some experience on the Chinese retirement benefits. My wife worked for a few years and has built up some pension benefits. From all of her calls and research she was told that with her green card she can ask for a buy-out of the pension. She found she had to go back to her home city (apparently her houkou was not transferred correctly, so it's split) and inquire there. Every time she has been there she has gone to the office. Last time I went with her. The office responsible for pensions is only open seemingly random days in the months. She had green card in hand ready to cash out but we were literally run around from department to department with no success. No one knew how to process! It didn't surprise me that they were going to be less than accommodating to pay out money. We had to give up that attempt. She still wanted to try and get it but the amount they quoted was only a few thousand yuan...

 

Now, for someone with a lot more years put into the system, the equation would be different. I am not sure if she can get anything after she becomes a U.S. citizen but she seems to want to keep trying...

 

Lee

[mjtaylor]

There's a lot of misinformation here.

 

There are multiple policies in place and it relies entirely on the city as to what happens.

 

There are 2 parts to the pension fund. The Company and the Personal contributions. ALL gains and interest are allocated to the company portion. The personal contribution is only what you personally put in and nothing else. Once you hit retirement, they draw first from the personal contribution. For most, this is pretty much nothing. Once exhausted, they move to the company portion for drawdown. Survivor benefits are based solely on the PERSONAL contribution balance. In otherwords, the large balance you see in the account is a lie. That money will never all come out.

 

Here's where the problems lie. If you are already retired and drawing on it, and then give up citizenship.. no problem, you can keep taking it. But for many, if you have a foreign citizenship or even a green card already... they will cash you out on the personal and that's it. Nothing more.

 

Furthermore, the "15 years" for vesting can be modified at any time. There is no grandfathering of laws in China. It's all just policy from on high. If it's a meager sum, then sure, roll the dice on it I guess, nothing to lose. But for those with good years of work left, cash it out asap and dump it into an IRA/401k or other retirement account. Medical care in China is horrid and pointless. The pensions are also rather meager.

 

The pensions are also rife with fraud, already at a negative balance in most areas, vastly underfunded... it's only a matter of time before they "reform" the system and that assumes that the asshats in beijing will remain in power. Once they go, it's all gone anyways.