A reason why some Americans come to work in China

[Fu Lai]

Don't think Americans are losers when they come to China for work... read on:

Discouraged Americans leave labor force

 

• http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/L_IIfn_1Q9CMdT6pLgKXpg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Y2g9MzU0Njtjcj0xO2N3PTU0NjA7ZHg9MDtkeT0wO2ZpPXVsY3JvcDtoPTQxMDtxPTg1O3c9NjMw/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/67624a599895420b2e0f6a706700032d.jpg
  This Friday, March 29, 2013 file photo shows a help wanted sign at a barber shop in Richmond, Va. U.S. employers added just 88,000 jobs in March, the fewest in nine …more

WASHINGTON (AP) — After a full year of fruitless job hunting, Natasha Baebler just gave up.

 

She'd already abandoned hope of getting work in her field, working with the disabled. But she couldn't land anything else, either — not even a job interview at a telephone call center.

 

Until she feels confident enough to send out resumes again, she'll get by on food stamps and disability checks from Social Security and live with her parents in St. Louis.

 

"I'm not proud of it," says Baebler, who is in her mid-30s and is blind. "The only way I'm able to sustain any semblance of self-preservation is to rely on government programs that I have no desire to be on."

 

Baebler's frustrating experience has become all too common nearly four years after the Great Recession ended: Many Americans are still so discouraged that they've given up on the job market.

 

Older Americans have retired early. Younger ones have enrolled in school. Others have suspended their job hunt until the employment landscape brightens. Some, like Baebler, are collecting disability checks.

 

It isn't supposed to be this way. After a recession, an improving economy is supposed to bring people back into the job market.

 

Instead, the number of Americans in the labor force — those who have a job or are looking for one — fell by nearly half a million people from February to March, the government said Friday. And the percentage of working-age adults in the labor force — what's called the participation rate — fell to 63.3 percent last month. It's the lowest such figure since May 1979.

 

The falling participation rate tarnished the only apparent good news in the jobs report the Labor Department released Friday: The unemployment rate dropped to a four-year low of 7.6 percent in March from 7.7 in February.

 

People without a job who stop looking for one are no longer counted as unemployed. That's why the U.S. unemployment rate dropped in March despite weak hiring. If the 496,000 who left the labor force last month had still been looking for jobs, the unemployment rate would have risen to 7.9 percent in March.

 

"Unemployment dropped for all the wrong reasons," says Craig Alexander, chief economist with TD Bank Financial Group. "It dropped because more workers stopped looking for jobs. It signaled less confidence and optimism that there are jobs out there."

 

The participation rate peaked at 67.3 percent in 2000, reflecting an influx of women into the work force. It's been falling steadily ever since.

 

Part of the drop reflects the baby boom generation's gradual move into retirement. But such demographics aren't the whole answer.

 

Even Americans of prime working age — 25 to 54 years old — are dropping out of the workforce. Their participation rate fell to 81.1 percent last month, tied with November for the lowest since December 1984.

 

"It's the lack of job opportunities — the lack of demand for workers — that is keeping these workers from working or seeking work," says Heidi Shierholz, an economist at the liberal Economic Policy Institute. The Labor Department says there are still more than three unemployed people for every job opening.

 

Cynthia Marriott gave up her job search after an interview in October for a position as a hotel concierge.

"They never said no," she says. "They just never called me back."

 

Her husband hasn't worked full time since 2006. She cashed out her 401(k) after being laid off from a job at a Los Angeles entertainment publicity firm in 2009. The couple owes thousands in taxes for that withdrawal. They have no health insurance.

 

She got the maximum 99 weeks' of unemployment benefits then allowed in California and then moved to Atlanta.

 

Now she is looking to receive federal disability benefits for a lung condition that she said leaves her weak and unable to work a full day. The application is pending a medical review.

 

"I feel like I have no choice," says Marriott, 47. "It's just really sad and frightening"

 

During the peak of her job search, Marriott was filling out 10 applications a day. She applied for jobs she felt overqualified for, such as those at Home Depot and Petco but never heard back. Eventually, the disappointment and fatigue got to her.

"I just wanted a job," she says. "I couldn't really go on anymore looking for a job."

 

Young people are leaving the job market, too. The participation rate for Americans ages 20 to 24 hit a 41-year low 69.6 percent last year before bouncing back a bit. Many young people have enrolled in community colleges and universities.

That's one reason a record 63 percent of adults ages 25 to 29 have spent at least some time in college, according to the Pew Research Center.

 

Older Americans are returning to school, too. Doug Damato, who lives in Asheville, N.C., lost his job as an installer at a utility company in February 2012. He stopped looking for work last fall, when he began taking classes in mechanical engineering at Asheville-Buncombe Technical Community College.

 

Next week, Damato, 40, will accept an academic award for earning top grades. But one obstacle has emerged: Under a recent change in state law, his unemployment benefits will now end July 1, six months earlier than he expected.

 

He's planning to work nights, if possible, to support himself once the benefits run out. Dropping out of school is "out of the question," he said, given the time he has already put into the program.

 

"I don't want a handout," he says. "I'm trying to better myself."

 

Many older Americans who lost their jobs are finding refuge in Social Security's disability program. Nearly 8.9 million Americans are receiving disability checks, up 1.3 million from when the recession ended in June 2009.

 

Natasha Baebler's journey out of the labor force and onto the disability rolls began when she lost her job serving disabled students and staff members at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind., in February 2012.

 

For six months, she sought jobs in her field, brandishing master's degrees in social education and counseling. No luck.

Then she just started looking for anything. Still, she had no takers.

 

"I chose to stop and take a step back for a while ... After you've seen that amount of rejection," she says, "you start thinking, 'What's going to make this time any different?' "

 

[warpedbored]

This article has nothing to do with China as the title suggests. It doesn't even mention China. Please don't let this turn political.

[tsap seui]

Fu Lai, has someone called you a dadgumed loser for working in China? Who? Tell me who....I haven't cracked a kneecap in 2 weeks.

 

I thought guys went to work in China to be with their wimmin. Simple as that.

[Fu Lai]

This article has nothing to do with China as the title suggests. It doesn't even mention China. Please don't let this turn political.

 

It is not political Mr. warpedbored, it was posted in "stateside" because it is about America, hence the TITLE "Discouraged Americans leave labor force." The mention in the post title has to do with this entire forum being about Chinese and America. Just letting folks know about the job situation in the USA. It has nothing to do with the politics often expressed on CFL about North Korea, Japan, South Korea, China, and other places. It is not political in the USA as it mentions no political parties. When it comes to people not being able to find a job, it is a concern for anyone here as well as anyone coming here. I hope you understand it is not politically offensive per the posted forum rules. Many Chinese think that Americans come to China for work because they are not qualified in the USA, and this speaks directly to a main reason they go to China is for available work in their field... not because they are not employable at home. They are often employable but there are no jobs.

 

Sorry it is not rosy for Chinese to come looking for a job.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Fu Lai (see edit history)

[warpedbored]

You titled the thread "A reason why some Americans come to work in China." I think most people would believe that is what the article is about. It's not about Americans working in China. It's about unemployment in the US. It's not political yet but I've seen too many threads like this one become that way. I am merely requesting that it doesn't.

[Feathers268]

Well, if this is suposed to be about "how hard it is" to find a job in the US, I think I have a little insight about that. Jen was having a hell of a time finding work in CA. You want the short of why we moved? That's it. Once here, she was working within a month. She is now doing quite well. It took me longer. 2 months after getting here, I had a seasonal job with the local Target. One month after that, I found work for a company that installs and maintains fire alarms here in NYC. We took a risk and after a few months improved our monthly income significantly. After taking this job, I continue to get job offers from other places I applied for.

The point I am making, if people can't find work in a certain place, there are other parts of the country where work can be found. You just have to have the courage to do something about it.

Articles like this like to find the exreme cases. The first one is blind. That is going to significantly limit opportunities. Another one was a publicity agent in LA. That sounds like the kind of job that is a dime a dozen in LA.

Are times tough here in the US? Sure, but there are opportunities if you look for them. It is supposed to be even tougher here in NYC, but Jen and I managed.

[tsap seui]

Great post Feathers. Right on target...so to speak.

 

tsap seui

[credzba]

I think what Fu Lai didn't explain is in China "teaching english" is looked on as foreigners who couldn't find any other work.

This is not a US perception, but definitely a Chinese perception.

(I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, it is just what I was told)

 

Tsap is right some people come to China because the love their "Wimin", others because they love the country.

 

I am employable fairly easily in US, even now, but I have discussed teaching English in China because I love the country and the people... Still my wife has told me I would be looked at as someone who could not find any other work.

 

Doesn't mean the Chinese perception is accurate, but it IS a general perception.

 

Fu Lai was saying that the economic challenges in USA were, at least partially, responsible for the influx of foreign workers in China.

 

 

That said, I'd like to add a short insight of my own.

We have had a home in Suzhou for 7 years, but I have not been "home" for 5 years.

I can say there are fewer foreigners in Suzhou now than 5 years ago.

I don't know if it is because the worldwide economy is bad, so companies are cutting back on expat expenses, or if it is just a seasonal issue that will change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Randy W]

I think what Fu Lai didn't explain is in China "teaching english" is looked on as foreigners who couldn't find any other work.

This is not a US perception, but definitely a Chinese perception.

(I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, it is just what I was told)

 

Tsap is right some people come to China because the love their "Wimin", others because they love the country.

 

I am employable fairly easily in US, even now, but I have discussed teaching English in China because I love the country and the people... Still my wife has told me I would be looked at as someone who could not find any other work.

 

Doesn't mean the Chinese perception is accurate, but it IS a general perception.

 

Fu Lai was saying that the economic challenges in USA were, at least partially, responsible for the influx of foreign workers in China.

 

 

That said, I'd like to add a short insight of my own.

We have had a home in Suzhou for 7 years, but I have not been "home" for 5 years.

I can say there are fewer foreigners in Suzhou now than 5 years ago.

I don't know if it is because the worldwide economy is bad, so companies are cutting back on expat expenses, or if it is just a seasonal issue that will change.

 

 

 

My own experience was that this is absolutely not true. Everyone I've met is here for a reason, relating either to their women or the country itself. It's hard to see how that could translate to "couldn't find any other work" in anyone's eyes.

 

Chinese students at the university level are required to have an understanding of the English language to at least the newspaper level - reading and writing. Their verbal English, on the other hand, is generally taught by native Chinese. Very few were capable of carrying on a conversation with a Westerner, although many could talk amongst themselves in English. Even a warm body who "couldn't find any other work" brought with them the ability to communicate with Westerners, and was appreciated for the gap they filled (in my experience).

[Mick]

During my years in China (1997-2003) I did not experience the "couldn't find work in the U.S." viewpoint. I think that stems from several factors. First, back then, the economy was much better than it is now - those were years before the 2007-08 meltdown. Second, I hold three advanced degrees and the Chinese have a great respect for education. I don't think any of them felt I couldn't find work. Now, things may have changed drastically in the ten years since we left the Middle Kingdom. With the recent wave of "anti-foreigner" sentiment present in the Chinese social media, the "can't find work" sentiment may indeed be a reality in some quarters.

[credzba]

During my years in China (1997-2003) I did not experience the "couldn't find work in the U.S." viewpoint. I think that stems from several factors. First, back then, the economy was much better than it is now - those were years before the 2007-08 meltdown. Second, I hold three advanced degrees and the Chinese have a great respect for education. I don't think any of them felt I couldn't find work. Now, things may have changed drastically in the ten years since we left the Middle Kingdom. With the recent wave of "anti-foreigner" sentiment present in the Chinese social media, the "can't find work" sentiment may indeed be a reality in some quarters.

 

As I said Mick, it was what I was told. I can't comment further than that.

 

When I wrote that post I tried to be cautious how I said it because I know some of our members taught or teach English in China.

I think its good income, and you get to live in an interesting place, but Chinese perspective of foreigners is changing.

[Randy W]

As far as "change", they're getting more restrictive about who they hire - a degree is now required, along with teaching certification.

 

Sorry, but again, I absolutely do not see it where I am.

[Mick]

 

During my years in China (1997-2003) I did not experience the "couldn't find work in the U.S." viewpoint. I think that stems from several factors. First, back then, the economy was much better than it is now - those were years before the 2007-08 meltdown. Second, I hold three advanced degrees and the Chinese have a great respect for education. I don't think any of them felt I couldn't find work. Now, things may have changed drastically in the ten years since we left the Middle Kingdom. With the recent wave of "anti-foreigner" sentiment present in the Chinese social media, the "can't find work" sentiment may indeed be a reality in some quarters.

 

As I said Mick, it was what I was told. I can't comment further than that.

 

When I wrote that post I tried to be cautious how I said it because I know some of our members taught or teach English in China.

I think its good income, and you get to live in an interesting place, but Chinese perspective of foreigners is changing.

I agree with what you are saying and what you said. I wasn't taking issue with your view at all. My point was that in the years I was over there, things were most likely different. Change was happening at a rapid pace, even back then, and I can only imagine how fast that change has been since we left ten years ago. It does not surprise me at all that some Chinese would have this view of westerners, especially in the more highly developed, urbanized areas. I suspect you might find less of this viewpoint in the western and southwestern reaches of China, where development has been somewhat slower. Like Randy says, he doesn't hear it where he lives. On the other hand, I have a friend who teaches in Jiangsu, in Changzhou, and he recently described reading this sort of thing in the Chinese social media.

 

In terms of income, it wasn't all that great, compared to what I could have made in the States. I left a good position to go and teach in China. I planned to stay for only a year and, in essence, had a leave of absence from work. I met Li, fell head over heels in love. She didn't want to come to the States, so I resigned my position and ended up staying a little over five years. I imagine all the ex-pat teachers in China have their own personal motives for being there. For me, it was a no brainer. Li was, and is, the finest, most honorable and decent human being I have ever met. Last week we celebrated our 16th Anniversary together. I can also say I don't regret my decision in any way, shape, form or fashion. The years I spent teaching in China, especially the last four years down in Shantou, were the most professionally rewarding of my entire career. I loved my job, my co-workers were great, and my students were a real joy.

[Fu Lai]

I think what Fu Lai didn't explain is in China "teaching english" is looked on as foreigners who couldn't find any other work.

This is not a US perception, but definitely a Chinese perception. (I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, it is just what I was told)

 

Tsap is right some people come to China because the love their "Wimin", others because they love the country.

 

I am employable fairly easily in US, even now, but I have discussed teaching English in China because I love the country and the people... Still my wife has told me I would be looked at as someone who could not find any other work.

 

Doesn't mean the Chinese perception is accurate, but it IS a general perception.

 

Fu Lai was saying that the economic challenges in USA were, at least partially, responsible for the influx of foreign workers in China. ...

 

Yes, that is what I meant without naming jobs. Teaching English is one of course. Teachers are getting axed in the USA so much that foreign jobs are a refuge. My salary here is 3x what natives get so there is resentment among them. So the article about so many Americans giving up at home seemed a good point to show that there is another reason why we look at jobs in China, not that we are so unemployable elsewhere. To go so far for work is not so easy.