Recent Divorce and Red Flags

[pbatt]

They is always a way through it, but requires much documentation. Myself I am going CR-1 been divorced from 2 Chinese women and married to my 3rd. We applied a CR-1 visa in April this year and got sent to CSC for review, but in August got a RFE request for more evidence. I sent that in now awaiting a decision.

My original application was 2 inches thick of papers and documentation, they didnt believe anything so I sent in over 6 inches thick of more information and chat logs and over 400 more photos.

I am 56, she is 33. For some reason USCIS believes she has been divorced but it is her frist marriage. So I addressed that in the RFE.

As others have said, more time together is invaluable. I married on March 1st 2011 and went back to see her 3 more times before even filing the application, since I knew I would have problems. I was divorced for 5 years but the RFE called it a recent divorce, go figure!!.

 

I addressed all my red flags letters and notes to USCIS in my application hoping all would be done but got the RFE anyway.

Sometimes its just the luck of the draw.

 

The best advice is document everything and as others have said, put yourself in the VO's shoes and think of what you have to do to convince a complete stranger in a few questions and with your application that this is a true relationship. Not always easy to do.

 

Ask lots of questions as there are many people here that have gone through the same thing and can offer some great advice.

 

Good Luck

[warpedbored]

I did not intend to disparage your fiancee, I don't know her. I was merely pointing out how a VO might view your petition. Many men here have married much younger women than themselves and had successful outcomes. The difference is most of these women were in their 30s not 20s. It is an issue you should take seriously.

[Roebel]

I did not intend to disparage your fiancee, I don't know her. I was merely pointing out how a VO might view your petition. Many men here have married much younger women than themselves and had successful outcomes. The difference is most of these women were in their 30s not 20s. It is an issue you should take seriously.

 

I didn't take it that way. I know that you were just trying to paint a realistic picture. I just want to know that there's a light at the end of the tunnel, even if it requires some time and frustration. My worst fear is that we get denied and I waste time fighting through it for a couple of years with nothing to show at the end. And both of us end up heartbroken and disappointed.

[warpedbored]

One advantage of filing a K-1 over an I-130 is if you're denied you can marry and start over. There are no do overs for an I-130. If denied you must fight it out to the bitter end which can take years. As others have advised a consultation with Marc Ellis would be a good idea. He is an expert on denials and knows better than anyone how to front load a petition. Read everything in the Ellis' Island forum.

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?/forum/39-ellis-island/

[david_dawei]

IMO, if you both stick it out you'll get through it with a visa. There have been members here who had to wait 5 years. If there is nothing outright false about the case then it is simply a matter of waiting on them to approve it all.

 

Then there was the young and beautiful lady who was denied over and over and over because the VO tried to persuade her to marry him instead... The VO even meet with the lady's mom and made many promises... but in the end, she simply stuck to the message that she was going to marry this US man... and eventually was given the visa...

[chilton747]

IMO, if you both stick it out you'll get through it with a visa. There have been members here who had to wait 5 years. If there is nothing outright false about the case then it is simply a matter of waiting on them to approve it all.

 

Then there was the young and beautiful lady who was denied over and over and over because the VO tried to persuade her to marry him instead... The VO even meet with the lady's mom and made many promises... but in the end, she simply stuck to the message that she was going to marry this US man... and eventually was given the visa...

 

I remember that "story".

[knloregon]

Roebel, regarding the question, is it possible to back out, and start over, that's a question better addressed by Dan or David, who are far more informed. Not sure of the consequences, but come to think of it, I don't remember a case here where the prospect of withdrawal, and later filing (not forced by DOS) has been discussed.

 

You got very good advice in suggesting that marriage in China would be a fall back option, in the event of a denial and some of the most heart felt stories here at the Candle are of those who were forced into that situation ('Going Home' by Tsap is full of insights, information, and pain..) Obviously, this would mean you need to follow her to China, and the marriage is not enough in itself, you still would need to make it real (and document it every step of the way, over an extended period of time in China).

[Randy W]

The problem here is that your filing was too soon, both from the divorce, and from the time of first meeting, coupled with the age difference. There's not going to be enough evidence to overcome the red flags. Simply piling on paper in the form of chat transcripts, etc., won't cut the mustard. Waiting until next year and AT LEAST one more trip would have been prudent.

 

That's not to say that you WILL be denied. But I think someone needs to look at your entire case - which, again, we can't do - to evaluate your best approach from here.

 

You can a) withdraw your case and file again later, b ) follow through with the K-1, and a CR-1 fall-back if it fails, or c) withdraw the K-1 , get married and file a CR-1

 

I wouldn't do anything, though, without having someone ELSE look at ALL your paperwork and evaluate your options. Marc Ellis would seem to be your best choice.

 

Please DON'T spend your time here trying to convince us of how solid your relationship is. We're on your side, but we CANNOT give an objective opinion without looking at your paperwork.

Edited October 15, 2012 by Randy W (see edit history)

[dnoblett]

I have seen one board member do just that. They decided too many red flags and withdrew the I-129F and took time to build relationship and eventually married over there and then filed an I-130 for spouse visa, they are now happily living in the USA

[Roebel]

I have seen one board member do just that. They decided too many red flags and withdrew the I-129F and took time to build relationship and eventually married over there and then filed an I-130 for spouse visa, they are now happily living in the USA

 

Is it possible to withdraw the I-129F now, wait for a few months and then send in a new I-129F, with more trips and time under our belt?

 

Or does cancelling mean we have to take a different route?

[NickF]

For what it's worth ChunMei and I med whjile I was still married, but my now ex-wife and I had been separated for almost two years. I'd visited ChunMei in China twice in an eight month period, and we'd spent a total of a month together. I'd met her family and they approved of me completely. they even threw an engagement dinner for us, even though I was still legally married at the time.

 

ChunMei was 15 years younger than I, and I was 62 at that time. She'd been divorced and has a son who had just turned 21, so there was no question of bringing him here as part of ChunMei's immigration. My attorney had me file a K-1 with a detailed EOR, including an explanation of the whole situation. I filed it a week after my divorce became final. From the time the K-1 was filed until she received her visa took a total of only 11 months.

 

But then, as she frequently tells me, she is "a good luck lady."

[dnoblett]

I have seen one board member do just that. They decided too many red flags and withdrew the I-129F and took time to build relationship and eventually married over there and then filed an I-130 for spouse visa, they are now happily living in the USA

 

Is it possible to withdraw the I-129F now, wait for a few months and then send in a new I-129F, with more trips and time under our belt?

 

Or does cancelling mean we have to take a different route?

You can always file another I-129F no different route.

 

It is up to you what you want to do.

 

If were me I would develop the relationship over a year or so, and if were me, probably get hitched over there, and do the spouse visa route.

 

As Carl said the K-1 affords the option in a denial to further develop relationship and marry then do a CR-1 visa. In this case, it is advisable to pay attention to what USCIS does with the denied K-1 case, they tend to do one of three things.

1. They believe the consulate was in error and reaffirms the petition and sends it back to consulate for another interview.
   
2. They consider case to have expired since in most cases the consulate interviews beyond the 4 months after USCIS approved the I-129F.
   
3. They accepts the decision of the consulate and sends petitioner an notice of intent to revoke, if petitioner fails to respond, they mark the case as such with a mark of misrepresentation, which can affect future petitions such as a spouse visa.
   

The positive aspects of CR-1.

• Costs less Petition to Green-card, less than $1000
  
• Gets a green-card upon entry to the USA, no waiting 4 to 10 months after marriage.
  
• Can take a job, or even travel immedately after arriving in the USA (Allowed by green-card status)
  
• Can apply for a learners permit and work tward getting a driver's license shortly after arriving in the USA
  
• Petition processing is not much longer than I-129F
  

As for K-1

• Fees exceed $1800 Petition to Green-Card (I-129F, then after marriage I-485)
  
• Cannot seek work till after getting EAD or Green-card from filing to adjust status.
  
• Cannot travel out of country till having advance parole or green-card from adjustment of status.
  
• Most states will not issue ID or learners permit till having SSN and Evidence of legal status (EAD or Green-card)
  
• The PLUS, If denied, can make an attempt the CR-1 route
  
• K-1 use to be desirable because it was the quicker visa, but with improvements at USCIS, NVC and Consulate make the CR-1 nearly as quick as the K-1 by about 1 month or so.
  
• One other point, K-1 is a visa type for cases where getting married overseas is difficult to impossible, in cases where there are Religious, Social, or local government blocks preventing a marriage, that do not exist in the USA.
  

[Roebel]

I have seen one board member do just that. They decided too many red flags and withdrew the I-129F and took time to build relationship and eventually married over there and then filed an I-130 for spouse visa, they are now happily living in the USA

 

Is it possible to withdraw the I-129F now, wait for a few months and then send in a new I-129F, with more trips and time under our belt?

 

Or does cancelling mean we have to take a different route?

You can always file another I-129F no different route.

 

It is up to you what you want to do.

 

If were me I would develop the relationship over a year or so, and if were me, probably get hitched over there, and do the spouse visa route.

 

As Carl said the K-1 affords the option in a denial to further develop relationship and marry then do a CR-1 visa. In this case, it is advisable to pay attention to what USCIS does with the denied K-1 case, they tend to do one of three things.

1. They believe the consulate was in error and reaffirms the petition and sends it back to consulate for another interview.
   
2. They consider case to have expired since in most cases the consulate interviews beyond the 4 months after USCIS approved the I-129F.
   
3. They accepts the decision of the consulate and sends petitioner an notice of intent to revoke, if petitioner fails to respond, they mark the case as such with a mark of misrepresentation, which can affect future petitions such as a spouse visa.
   

The positive aspects of CR-1.

• Costs less Petition to Green-card, less than $1000
  
• Gets a green-card upon entry to the USA, no waiting 4 to 10 months after marriage.
  
• Can take a job, or even travel immedately after arriving in the USA (Allowed by green-card status)
  
• Can apply for a learners permit and work tward getting a driver's license shortly after arriving in the USA
  
• Petition processing is not much longer than I-129F
  

As for K-1

• Fees exceed $1800 Petition to Green-Card (I-129F, then after marriage I-485)
  
• Cannot seek work till after getting EAD or Green-card from filing to adjust status.
  
• Cannot travel out of country till having advance parole or green-card from adjustment of status.
  
• Most states will not issue ID or learners permit till having SSN and Evidence of legal status (EAD or Green-card)
  
• The PLUS, If denied, can make an attempt the CR-1 route
  
• K-1 use to be desirable because it was the quicker visa, but with improvements at USCIS, NVC and Consulate make the CR-1 nearly as quick as the K-1 by about 1 month or so.
  
• One other point, K-1 is a visa type for cases where getting married overseas is difficult to impossible, in cases where there are Religious, Social, or local government blocks preventing a marriage, that do not exist in the USA.
  

 

So since we met in June of this year. Would it make sense to get married in China in say July 2013, and then submit the paper work for the CR-1? I would have had 4 trips or so before the marriage and a 2-3 more during the waiting process.

[dnoblett]

So since we met in June of this year. Would it make sense to get married in China in say July 2013, and then submit the paper work for the CR-1? I would have had 4 trips or so before the marriage and a 2-3 more during the waiting process.

Ultimately it is your decision.

 

But that sounds like a reasonable course of action.

1. Withdrawing the I-129F explaining that it was hasty, and you and fiancee wanted to develop relationship longer probably would look good and logical to USCIS.
   
2. Would give you more time to truly decide about relationship, and looks the same to the interviewing officer.
   
3. Gives more time to develop evidence of a bonafide relationship.
   

I would study the Post Interview forum paying attention to the denials.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?/forum/35-interview-results/

Here is one relevant, Started as K-1, then switched to CR-1... http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?/topic/44093-cr1-visa-denied-no-second-chance-what-to-do/ ( This one was odd, petitioner did not elaborate about denial reason, however he did hint at over spending, sounded like a well off guy going for a trophy wife, something to avoid. )

[Roebel]

So since we met in June of this year. Would it make sense to get married in China in say July 2013, and then submit the paper work for the CR-1? I would have had 4 trips or so before the marriage and a 2-3 more during the waiting process.

Ultimately it is your decision.

 

But that sounds like a reasonable course of action.

1. Withdrawing the I-129F explaining that it was hasty, and you and fiancee wanted to develop relationship longer probably would look good and logical to USCIS.
   
2. Would give you more time to truly decide about relationship, and looks the same to the interviewing officer.
   
3. Gives more time to develop evidence of a bonafide relationship.
   

I would study the Post Interview forum paying attention to the denials.

 

http://candleforlove...erview-results/

Here is one relevant, Started as K-1, then switched to CR-1... http://candleforlove...nce-what-to-do/ ( This one was odd, petitioner did not elaborate about denial reason, however he did hint at over spending, sounded like a well off guy going for a trophy wife, something to avoid. )

 

 

Yes I'll let it settle for a couple of days but I'm thinking this is the best plan of action. We can test out the relationship with our travels, make sure to take lots of photos, save our travel tickets, hotel receipts, etc, and make sure to document everything up the wazoo. Meanwhile I can study up on the denial reasons and do everything to avoid them. From what I understand age difference is not enough to deny a visa as long as everything else is in place. So I'll manage all the details, make sure she's prepared and involved, and front load the petition with as much information as possible, including the EOR letter.

 

I spoke with her today and she doesn't have a problem with waiting and marrying in China, actually she said as long as I come up with an "awesome" proposal.

 

 

I really appreciate the help!