Taxes

[Beachey]

 

Perhaps someone can tell you how long the ITIN process takes - I'm not sure that it's really worth your while to wait for an SS# when you can file as early as February with an ITIN application.

 

Here was our timeline:

 

Mailed(Fedexed) my 2010 tax return from China on 3/31/11

Received on 4/4/11

My wife's ITIN notice was dated 4/20/11.

Received the actual notice here in China sometime around late May (it actually sat in my mailbox for a month as I hardly ever check my mail)

 

I owed money so I can't tell you how long it would have delayed a refund.

 

However, while I filed state taxes at the same time, I had to refile my state taxes once we had the ITIN though I was credited with filing on time (i.e. before 4/15) so you might want to wait on your state taxes until you have the ITIN or SSN. Generally if you are getting a refund, the 4/15 deadline does not apply.

[Randy W]

 

Perhaps someone can tell you how long the ITIN process takes - I'm not sure that it's really worth your while to wait for an SS# when you can file as early as February with an ITIN application.

 

Here was our timeline:

 

Mailed(Fedexed) my 2010 tax return from China on 3/31/11

Received on 4/4/11

My wife's ITIN notice was dated 4/20/11.

Received the actual notice here in China sometime around late May (it actually sat in my mailbox for a month as I hardly ever check my mail)

 

I owed money so I can't tell you how long it would have delayed a refund.

 

However, while I filed state taxes at the same time, I had to refile my state taxes once we had the ITIN though I was credited with filing on time (i.e. before 4/15) so you might want to wait on your state taxes until you have the ITIN or SSN. Generally if you are getting a refund, the 4/15 deadline does not apply.

 

Whoa, there! If you are filing stateside, you must file for an extension, refund or no. If you are overseas, you are automatically granted a two month extension. In ANY event, the dollar amount must have been paid by April 15 to avoid interest and/or penalties.

[foobaz123]

The Application for Automatic Extension calls for an "Estimate of total tax liability for 2011", which you can estimate as the amount due AFTER you get the ITIN. But I don't think you get a refund until you file the actual return.

 

You may want to file as early as possible, even if it means filing an amended return later in the year.

 

That would be fine as far as the refund goes. All I really want is to be able to show we filed taxes together this year, or that I haven't filed them at all. My concern with the latter is if they would take that as some kind of contra-evidence as opposed to just my not wanting to go through the hassle and delays applying for the ITIN will cause when she'll have a real SSN soon after getting here.

 

In short, aside from worrying about what GUZ will say there is no logical reason to file taxes now and take the delay and hassle of the ITIN process when instead I could file them soon after she gets here with the far simpler and faster her having the SSN will allow.

 

Also, any process that requires me to pay or possibly pay the single rate would be insane as it would end up being a very significant chunk of money that we can't afford with all the costs of getting her here..

 

 

The IRS and GUZ are two different issues - you have choices with both. But GUZ CAN and has in some cases requested to see your present years tax return.

 

You could always have one filled out, ready to turn in, with "Applied for" in the SS# field, to show GUZ along with with your extension paperwork.

 

Perhaps someone can tell you how long the ITIN process takes - I'm not sure that it's really worth your while to wait for an SS# when you can file as early as February with an ITIN application.

 

I don't recall the exact time line they gave me, but when I spoke to the IRS the process was quoted in several weeks of time. Which is to say that since I supposedly can't even start that process until I can file the taxes, say the end of January, by the time the ITIN was available the wife would likely be here and have an SSN in hand making the whole thing moot.

[Randy W]

 

The IRS and GUZ are two different issues - you have choices with both. But GUZ CAN and has in some cases requested to see your present years tax return.

 

You could always have one filled out, ready to turn in, with "Applied for" in the SS# field, to show GUZ along with with your extension paperwork.

 

Perhaps someone can tell you how long the ITIN process takes - I'm not sure that it's really worth your while to wait for an SS# when you can file as early as February with an ITIN application.

 

I don't recall the exact time line they gave me, but when I spoke to the IRS the process was quoted in several weeks of time. Which is to say that since I supposedly can't even start that process until I can file the taxes, say the end of January, by the time the ITIN was available the wife would likely be here and have an SSN in hand making the whole thing moot.

 

Beechey's time line was barely over two weeks for the ITIN (not including mail time from China), so your taxes could be processed by the end of February. No problem with waiting, if you prefer.

 

Don't forget you have a visa application in the works, too (they have been known to request copies of the current return as early as April) - you won't need the actual ITIN number until 2013 when you file your 2012 taxes (in fact, you won't need it at all since you'll have an SS number by then).

 

So it's basically your choice as to when you want to submit your tax return - I don't see any issues anywhere.

[Beachey]

The IRS and GUZ are two different issues - you have choices with both. But GUZ CAN and has in some cases requested to see your present years tax return.

 

You could always have one filled out, ready to turn in, with "Applied for" in the SS# field, to show GUZ along with with your extension paperwork.

 

Perhaps someone can tell you how long the ITIN process takes - I'm not sure that it's really worth your while to wait for an SS# when you can file as early as February with an ITIN application.

 

I don't recall the exact time line they gave me, but when I spoke to the IRS the process was quoted in several weeks of time. Which is to say that since I supposedly can't even start that process until I can file the taxes, say the end of January, by the time the ITIN was available the wife would likely be here and have an SSN in hand making the whole thing moot.

 

Beechey's time line was barely over two weeks for the ITIN (not including mail time from China), so your taxes could be processed by the end of February. No problem with waiting, if you prefer.

 

Don't forget you have a visa application in the works, too (they have been known to request copies of the current return as early as April) - you won't need the actual ITIN number until 2013 when you file your 2012 taxes (in fact, you won't need it at all since you'll have an SS number by then).

 

So it's basically your choice as to when you want to submit your tax return - I don't see any issues anywhere.

 

From Foobaz123 timeline, he got married in 2011 so he will need an ITIN/SSN when he files next year(2012) for this year's taxes(2011). Depending on when his wife's interview is, I agree he likely will want to try and file as soon as he can. What I think he might want to wait on is his state taxes since at least in my experience my state taxes were rejected due to my wife not having an ITIN/SSN. This obviously might vary state to state.

 

As for filing late, I absolutely agree that if you owe you need to file an extension and pay your anticipated tax by the deadline. Any penalties you pay are on the monies owed, I have never heard about a fine for actually filing late. And you are correct you get an automatic extension if you live overseas.

 

I have been told there is no penalty for filing late if you are due a refund. The government is happy for the extended loan.

[Randy W]

 

I don't recall the exact time line they gave me, but when I spoke to the IRS the process was quoted in several weeks of time. Which is to say that since I supposedly can't even start that process until I can file the taxes, say the end of January, by the time the ITIN was available the wife would likely be here and have an SSN in hand making the whole thing moot.

 

Beechey's time line was barely over two weeks for the ITIN (not including mail time from China), so your taxes could be processed by the end of February. No problem with waiting, if you prefer.

 

Don't forget you have a visa application in the works, too (they have been known to request copies of the current return as early as April) - you won't need the actual ITIN number until 2013 when you file your 2012 taxes (in fact, you won't need it at all since you'll have an SS number by then).

 

So it's basically your choice as to when you want to submit your tax return - I don't see any issues anywhere.

 

From Foobaz123 timeline, he got married in 2011 so he will need an ITIN/SSN when he files next year(2012) for this year's taxes(2011). Depending on when his wife's interview is, I agree he likely will want to try and file as soon as he can. What I think he might want to wait on is his state taxes since at least in my experience my state taxes were rejected due to my wife not having an ITIN/SSN. This obviously might vary state to state.

 

As for filing late, I absolutely agree that if you owe you need to file an extension and pay your anticipated tax by the deadline. Any penalties you pay are on the monies owed, I have never heard about a fine for actually filing late. And you are correct you get an automatic extension if you live overseas.

 

I have been told there is no penalty for filing late if you are due a refund. The government is happy for the extended loan.

 

If I remember correctly, you APPLY for an ITIN when you file your tax return and write "ITIN Applied For" in the space for spouse's SSN. They'll TELL him the number after the fact - no need to wait for the number is my point there.

 

 

 

One thing he WILL need with a refund check is a way to deposit it - it comes in both your names and must be deposited to an account in both names (check with your bank there). Electronic deposits are no problem.

[dan1984]

So, in short, apply for the ITIN using W-7.

When doing your taxes, write "ITIN Applied for" in the space for the SSN (as the ITIN would not have been received, as you can file the W-7 when filing your taxes)

Use Form 4852 to deal with any foreign income issues.

 

Will that take care of it all, or after you receive the ITIN will you need to file an amended return?

 

As for having an account to deposit any refund in, living in China, setting up a bank account with both names back in the US could be alittle tricky, and something I'll have to look into.

[Randy W]

So, in short, apply for the ITIN using W-7.

When doing your taxes, write "ITIN Applied for" in the space for the SSN (as the ITIN would not have been received, as you can file the W-7 when filing your taxes)

Use Form 4852 to deal with any foreign income issues.

 

Will that take care of it all, or after you receive the ITIN will you need to file an amended return?

 

As for having an account to deposit any refund in, living in China, setting up a bank account with both names back in the US could be alittle tricky, and something I'll have to look into.

 

 

Don't forget the 2555 to exclude the foreign income.

 

No, no amended return is required - they put it all together for you.

 

But if you electronically deposit the refund, you can do it to an account with only your name.

[dan1984]

Perfect, that's great news!

 

Thanks for the help, Randy!

 

 

 

But if you electronically deposit the refund, you can do it to an account with only your name.

[ChrisA]

If, on the other hand, you file married filing jointly, that status applies for the entire year. So, legally speaking, her income in China is reported, but then excluded up to something in the neighborhood of $93,000, using Form 2555 - so you pay no tax on it anyway.

 

Read the Form 2555. If her income in China can be excluded, you will almost certainly be better off filing married filing jointly, even if you are both taxed on your worldwide income.

 

Or you could file this form and declare World-wide income,instaed of exclude it, if she is paying more in taxes, this can be an offset (kind of like a tax credit) and net a higher tax return, be careful, once you make the decision, of which direction your going to use, you may have to stay the course and I don't think there would be a problem going this way one time only, consult a known tax consultant or attorney first to see where the advantage is? I did this when I resided in Germany for a number of years with my Ex, the Federal German rate was 20%, so naturally is made sense to do it this way. Also all her income has to be convertered into dollars at the IRS approved convertion table. If you use a tax service like H&R Block, have them do your taxes using both methods, to see where the advantage is.