Divorce and Filing K1

[james_and_joanne]

Hi All - I'm mostly active on the VisaJourney website but wanted to post here to get some opinions. We already filed our K1 in November 2010 so we dont have much of an opportunity to change anything in the petition, however for the P3 and P4 I have the following concern.

My divorce was finalized on November 16, 2010 and we filed the K1 11 days later on Nov 27. The basic story behind this is as follows:

JoAnne and I have been seeing each other since March 2006. I moved to China in July 2008 and lived there until March 2010. In May 2010, my wife and I filed for divorce and in California there is a six month waiting period. The Divorce was final on November 16, 2010.

I was contemplating using the services of a lawyer but at this point everything has been handled on our own.

The question for anyone with expertise or experience here is this: Is there any thing that I should prepare in writing that describes the events and what questions related to this should JoAnne be prepared to answer during her interview at GUZ? i.e. how can I minimize this fact from becoming an issue?


James_and_JoAnne

[dnoblett]

I would have an Evolition Of Relationship letter made out and handy at the interview, in some cases the consulate tosses a blue slip requesting this.

 

Blue is not bad, it is just asking for more is all. WHITE is BAD..

 

EOR is a common topic.

 

http://candleforlove.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42304

[Scott@Hong]

I would make sure your fiance knows everything surrounding your divorce, the why's, the when's and the what's.

She is going to be grilled on this subject at Guangzhou but if she is well versed on everything I would not worry about it to much.

 

Divorce date to petition filing being a short time is a red flag, just be prepared to handle it in your EOR and at interview.

[j4ever]

Actually i was about to ask the same question. Myself and Hua met about Mid June 2010,filed K-1 on 12/23/10,my divorce was final on 12/2/10 but myself and ex-wife have been seperated since 06.

[james_and_joanne]

She is going to be grilled on this subject at Guangzhou but if she is well versed on everything I would not worry about it to much.

 

 

 

Thanks Scott - she knows everything about it so I think thats fine ... Does the EOR really get read? Or is it just used to quiz her to see how well she understands things? Should I be detailed about the emotional and marital issues I was having with my ex ? That seems a bit excessive, but perhaps that is the 'norm' now.

[Amaro]

Write a novel if you have to. Just make sure you write an EOR that gets down to the point on exactly what and how things happened. You dont want to get so far in the visa process to only get turned down for a really dumb reason. Reading your post, gave me bad memories about Guz, I dont know what I would have done if my fiance at the time got a white slip. I tried to think of everything and anything that could come up that would be a concern and planned ahead for it. Better to be safe than sorry. Dont take the easy or lazy way out.

[james_and_joanne]

Write a novel if you have to. Just make sure you write an EOR that gets down to the point on exactly what and how things happened. You dont want to get so far in the visa process to only get turned down for a really dumb reason. Reading your post, gave me bad memories about Guz, I dont know what I would have done if my fiance at the time got a white slip. I tried to think of everything and anything that could come up that would be a concern and planned ahead for it. Better to be safe than sorry. Dont take the easy or lazy way out.

 

 

Thanks ... Here is what I wrote as an example for others ... it isn't a novel, but I think it gets to the main points. I heavily redacted it to remove my specifics ... comments welcome.

 

==================

 

Evolution of our Relationship

 

January 28, 2011

 

This memo describes the circumstances and details regarding how I met and fell in love with JoAnne and how we eventually decided to file the K1 Visa Petition and marry in the US.

I had been travelling to XXXX often on business and had the desire to learn to speak Mandarin. I discovered that there were many people from China using Skype to practice their English so I looked for others on Skype to chat with and to practice my mandarin. I had been considering using China based XXXX in XXXX to help expand my XXXX team and I thought having Mandarin speaking ability would be helpful to me.

 

In November 2005, after searching for Skype users in XXXX that were online, I said hello to JoAnne in Mandarin. She replied and we started a conversation. My mandarin quickly become insufficient and so I was very happy to learn that she could write English very well. For the next several months we chatted almost daily and I gradually become more and more interested in JoAnne.

 

In early 2006, my company asked me to visit China and evaluate several XXXX firms that we could use to hire XXXX.

 

In March 2006, I went to XXXX on business and planned to meet JoAnne as well. I stayed at a hotel in the center of XXXX and met JoAnne for dinner. We found that we could easily communicate not only online but also in person. On that first face to face visit, I grew more and more fond of XXXX and was physically attracted to her.

 

Our relationship continued for the next two years and we chatted online almost everyday and I travelled to China every two to three months spending at least one week with JoAnne each time. During that time we have been on many extended vacations together and traveled throughout China. I have spent every birthday of mine with her for the last 5 years.

 

In May 2008 I visited JoAnne in XXXX where she was living with her mother. I stayed at a hotel nearby.

 

In 2008, my company decided to open an office in XXXX, China. They asked me to staff and run the facility. So in July 2008, I moved to XXXX and rented an apartment at XXXX in XXXX. I asked JoAnne to join me there and to assist me with personal and business issues. We shared an apartment in XXXX starting in July 2008.

 

While living in the apartment with JoAnne, I began falling deeper in love with her and I knew I could not continue to be with JoAnne and remain married, so in March 2009, I told my wife (XXXX) that I wanted a separation and an eventual divorce. As I was still living in China, I decided to not pursue filing for the divorce until I returned to the USA.

 

In December 2008, JoAnne's mother came to visit us in XXXX and stayed in the apartment with us for three weeks.

 

In April 2010, JoAnne and I visited XXXX together to do XXXXXXX.

 

In March 2010, my company asked me to return to the US. While in the US, my company requested that I give up the apartment in XXXX and return permanently to the US.

 

In April 2010, my wife and I met with a divorce mediator and subsequently filed for divorce on May XX, 2010. California law requires a 6 month waiting period before granting a divorce.

 

In July 2010, I spent the month with JoAnne in XXXX and we discussed the fact that due to the change in the companies plan, I would not be able to return to China anymore. At that point we decided to file the paperwork to bring her to the US so that we could get married and remain together in the US.

 

Also in July, we travelled to XXXX and visited the XXXX in XXXXX. We knew that it might be many months before we were together again.

 

In November 2010, I returned for a personal visit to China and JoAnne and I travelled to XXX, XXXX, XXXX and then finally went to XXXX. We spent more than three weeks together on that trip.

 

15) While in XXXX I received notification that my divorce was finalized on November XX, 2010. JoAnne and I were finally free to be together legally forever. We worked on all the paper work for the I-129F and gathered up as much documentation as we could regarding our relationship.

 

I returned to the US and finalized the paperwork and sent it in on November 30, 2010.

 

We plan to marry in XXXX soon after she arrives in the US as we both think this would be more romantic than a simple marriage at the county courthouse.

 

Here are the dates and places in China that I have been with JoAnne:

 

March 2006 - X

May 2006 - X

July 2006 -X

Sept 2006 - X

Dec xx, 2006 - X

Jan 2007 - X

April 2007 - X

July xx, 2007 - X

July xx, 2007 - X

Sept 2007 - X

Nov 2007 - X

Jan/Feb 2008 - X, X

May 2008 - X

June 2008 - X

July 2008 - X to X

Jan 2009 - xx, X,

April 2009 - X, X

July 2008-July 2010 - Lived in XXX

November 2010 - X, X, X, X, X

 

 

I swear that this memo is, to the best of my ability, a true and accurate accounting of the relationship with JoAnne.

 

 

Signed,

 

 

The USC

 

 

[Amaro]

Thats good, but there is one thing that stood out the most and I already want to know more about (imagine what the VO would think). So it seems according to your story, ever since you met her you were married to your wife in the U.S and you were pretty much having an affair?

 

If I was you, I would write another letter explaining your desire to break it off with your wife and why you started seeing this other women while you were still married to your wife. I obiviously dont know your whole story, but your wife must have been either A) devastated to hear that you wanted a divorce because you found someone in china or b ) glad to hear you want a divorce because she probably has another guy as well or C) both of you should have not got married to begin with because there was no spark between you two and now both of you realize this. Either way, you really should explain what was going on back in the U.S while you were living with this women in china up to the point where you told your wife you wanted a divorce.

 

If I misunderstood your story, then ignore this message.

Edited January 30, 2011 by Amaro (see edit history)

[james_and_joanne]

Thats good, but there is one thing that stood out the most and I already want to know more about (imagine what the VO would think). So it seems according to your story, ever since you met her you were married to your wife in the U.S and you were pretty much having an affair?

 

If I was you, I would write another letter explaining your desire to break it off with your wife and why you started seeing this other women while you were still married to your wife. I obiviously dont know your whole story, but your wife must have been either A) devastated to hear that you wanted a divorce because you found someone in china or b ) glad to hear you want a divorce because she probably has another guy as well or C) both of you should have not got married to begin with because there was no spark between you two and now both of you realize this. Either way, you really should explain what was going on back in the U.S while you were living with this women in china up to the point where you told your wife you wanted a divorce.

 

If I misunderstood your story, then ignore this message.

 

 

 

Hi Amaro - Thanks for the feedback ... you have it mostly right (I was most definitely having an affair) .. here is another document I have written to explain that part. Although not proud that I was having an affair, my guess is that I am not the first case of this that the GUZ has seen.

 

----------------------

 

Question of my Divorce

 

A question may arise regarding my divorce and the timing of when I met JoAnne. This timeline will help someone better understand the issues involved and why there was only a short gap between the final divorce and the filing of the I-129F.

 

I met XX XX (JoAnne) in the fall of 2005 while I was looking for people from Beijing to converse with to help me learn Mandarin. I also had aspirations to relocate to China to engage in business there.

 

At the time that I met JoAnne I was still married and had been since 1983. My ex-wife (XXXX) and I had met in high school in xxxx.

 

Probably around 2002, my wife and I had begun to grow apart; she was content raising our children and I was travelling extensively for business and often away from home.

 

In 2004, I moved to XXXX (another state) and spent the majority of my time there without the family where i continued to learn mandarin and pursued local friendships with Chinese people to help practice speaking mandarin.

 

After meeting JoAnne, I began to think seriously about divorce. I was no longer happy in my marriage and I wanted to make a change. My fathers death in 2005 had also had great influence on my outlook on life.

 

In July 2008, I moved to XXXX, China to form a new XXX team and establish a long-term XXXX organization there. My company was covering my full expenses in China as well as providing return trips back to the USA.

 

I asked JoAnne to come to XXXX and share an apartment with me where she assisted me with personal and business related activities.

 

I maintained the home in the USA in which my then wife and children lived. My eldest was attending XXX and XXXX at the local college.

 

In March 2009, my wife and I separated and removed our wedding rings. We both were aware that our marriage was over. In addition to the complexities of filing for divorce while I was living and working in China, I wanted to give my wife time for the separation to sink-in.

 

At that time, I moved into a room in another part of the house.

 

In March 2010, my company asked me to return permanently to the USA.

 

One month later, on April 22, 2010, my wife and I met with a divorce mediator and began the process of divorce.

 

Although we separated in March 2009, I decided to use April XX, 2010 as the official date of separation to avoid more complicated financial issues.

 

On May XX, 2010 we filed for divorce in XXXX County Superior Court in XX. XXXX law requires a six month waiting period for the divorce to be final.

 

JoAnne and I continued our relationship throughout this period. I returned to China in July 2010 and spent the month of July with JoAnne and decided that when my divorce was finalized we would file the paperwork for her to come to the USA to marry.

 

On November XX, 2010 the divorce was completed.

 

On November 27, 2010 JoAnne and I filed the I-129F Petition along with documents to show our intentions to marry in the USA.

 

 

 

I swear that this memo is, to the best of my ability, a true and accurate accounting of my marriage and divorce to XXXX.

 

 

Signed,

 

 

 

The USC

January 28, 2011

[bullmastiff]

Thats good, but there is one thing that stood out the most and I already want to know more about (imagine what the VO would think). So it seems according to your story, ever since you met her you were married to your wife in the U.S and you were pretty much having an affair?

 

If I was you, I would write another letter explaining your desire to break it off with your wife and why you started seeing this other women while you were still married to your wife. I obiviously dont know your whole story, but your wife must have been either A) devastated to hear that you wanted a divorce because you found someone in china or b ) glad to hear you want a divorce because she probably has another guy as well or C) both of you should have not got married to begin with because there was no spark between you two and now both of you realize this. Either way, you really should explain what was going on back in the U.S while you were living with this women in china up to the point where you told your wife you wanted a divorce.

 

If I misunderstood your story, then ignore this message.

 

 

Immigration is not about moral judgement of who is screwing who ? What the government is interested in knowing is if this relationship is a bonafide one or it 's merely for immigration purpose .

With that being said , the only question I would raise to her or to you if I were the VO , why engagement at this point ? It looks kind of odd after you guys had been cohabiated for quite some times , why not get married in China and bring her over as a spouse ???

Remember , fiancee has no legal protection at all !!! spouse does.... as you know , it's so easy to deny K1 visa and let it expire. Thanks for the donation to the US goverment and you 'll get a denial with no recourse.

[Amaro]

The reason I brought this subject up to begin with was to deter the possibility of the OP getting slapped with a non-bonafide relationship. While you raise good concerns as far as why didnt he just get married in china after spending so much time with her in china versus filing a I-129f petition instead would probably be valuable information to include in the EOR. I like your 2nd letter because it gave your story more depth onto what was really going on in your life.

 

Not to mention you never know what the VO could be thinking. Soon as he reads something like that he might automatically assume that the petitioner is a bad guy and will probably just dump this chinese women down the road and end up finding another women to marry. The only thing I was suggesting was to add some solid facts to the story so atleast the VO knows the petitioners side, because you know, the petitioner will never get a chance to explain himself to the VO. If you got the story straight from the begining and your fiance is on the same track as the story, then everything should be golden.

 

 

[james_and_joanne]

 

Immigration is not about moral judgement of who is screwing who ? What the government is interested in knowing is if this relationship is a bonafide one or it 's merely for immigration purpose .

With that being said , the only question I would raise to her or to you if I were the VO , why engagement at this point ? It looks kind of odd after you guys had been cohabiated for quite some times , why not get married in China and bring her over as a spouse ???

Remember , fiancee has no legal protection at all !!! spouse does.... as you know , it's so easy to deny K1 visa and let it expire. Thanks for the donation to the US goverment and you 'll get a denial with no recourse.

 

 

Thanks Bullmastiff - Well, I suppose that could have been the decision, but we filed a K1 already. To be honest, at the time of evaluating the options, the K1 seemed like the faster way to get us back together and was recommended by folks on the VJ site. I could no longer remain in China, nor was I sure when I could go back, so the decision at that time was to bring her here.

 

Not sure if I followed your comment - are you saying that what I wrote is good or that I should not provide so much detail?

 

 

The reason I brought this subject up to begin with was to deter the possibility of the OP getting slapped with a non-bonafide relationship. While you raise good concerns as far as why didnt he just get married in china after spending so much time with her in china versus filing a I-129f petition instead would probably be valuable information to include in the EOR. I like your 2nd letter because it gave your story more depth onto what was really going on in your life.

 

Not to mention you never know what the VO could be thinking. Soon as he reads something like that he might automatically assume that the petitioner is a bad guy and will probably just dump this chinese women down the road and end up finding another women to marry. The only thing I was suggesting was to add some solid facts to the story so atleast the VO knows the petitioners side, because you know, the petitioner will never get a chance to explain himself to the VO. If you got the story straight from the beginning and your fiance is on the same track as the story, then everything should be golden.

 

 

Yes, ok good suggestion to mention why we went the K1 129F route as opposed to getting married in China.

 

As far as being a bad guy, I was married for 26 years and with my wife for 8 years before I married her (met when we were 15) ... If we get a judemental VO that looks at me as a bad guy for that, anything is possible.

 

Do these letters express level of information that a VO would be interested in? I partially feel I am providing too much information that could lead the VO to think the way you both seem to be leaning. (obviously I want to give the full story without providing them any ammunition against me).

[Amaro]

You bring up some good points James, but you have to remember. The only information the VO has on you is on ink. Its not like they dont know you were married. Its in the system, you filed taxes jointly before with your wife right? I dont think this would be news to the VO that you were married at the time you were chasing tail in china. The VO is probably expecting more of an explanation. You've won me over with letter #2 and letter #1 has great information about how you two met.

 

Ill let some of the other members give you their opinion if your adding to much fuel to the fire.

[bullmastiff]

[Thanks Bullmastiff - Well, I suppose that could have been the decision, but we filed a K1 already. To be honest, at the time of evaluating the options, the K1 seemed like the faster way to get us back together and was recommended by folks on the VJ site. I could no longer remain in China, nor was I sure when I could go back, so the decision at that time was to bring her here.

 

 

Well , don't be surprise if she gets a denial letter and they 'll probably let it expire .

CR1 & K1 take about the same time . CR1 is much cheaper to finish .

You had lived with this woman for a while , why still doing K1 ??? By Chinese culture or anything else , it looks odd. That's what visa officer is going to look at .

Moral judgement , don't worry about it . You are not a predator , so this is not an issue. VO is not here to be a religious order . They just want to know if it is a bonafide or non bonafide relationship ! If they think ( even so slightly ) it is not a bonafide relationship ,especially with K1 visa , just refuse it . Thanks for your money , and here is the white slip .

Edited January 31, 2011 by bullmastiff (see edit history)

[james_and_joanne]

[Thanks Bullmastiff - Well, I suppose that could have been the decision, but we filed a K1 already. To be honest, at the time of evaluating the options, the K1 seemed like the faster way to get us back together and was recommended by folks on the VJ site. I could no longer remain in China, nor was I sure when I could go back, so the decision at that time was to bring her here.

 

 

Well , don't be surprise if she gets a denial letter and they 'll probably let it expire .

CR1 & K1 take about the same time . CR1 is much cheaper to finish .

You had lived with this woman for a while , why still doing K1 ??? By Chinese culture or anything else , it looks odd. That's what visa officer is going to look at .

Moral judgement , don't worry about it . You are not a predator , so this is not an issue. VO is not here to be a religious order . They just want to know if it is a bonafide or non bonafide relationship ! If they think ( even so slightly ) it is not a bonafide relationship ,especially with K1 visa , just refuse it . Thanks for your money , and here is the white slip .

 

 

 

Ok thanks for the feedback - I think I am being too open in my statement. I will consider revising it to downplay the fact that we shared an apartment.