Japan-China Relations

[Martytb]

I agree one should never forget the past.  That being said carrying a grudge doesn't do any favors either.  In this countries early history a lot of attrocities were made.  Guess what? the whole world was barbaric.  Very few if any of the Japanese leaders who commited the war crimes are even alive today.  The average citizen holds no goals toward taking China.  Should Japan appologise? certainly thier govt. needs to acknowledge past mistakes.  Should reparations be made? I don't know.  Japan suffered greatly after two atomic bombs were dropped on it.  Perhaps that is punishment enough.  Remember saving face is important in Japan too.  Rubbing their nose in it probably won't help.

Were you aware more people died in Nanking than both atomic blasts?

It is not holding a grudge really. It is admitting to their actions and making reparations that do matter. Iris Chang spends the last quarter of her book explaining why there is so much anger. She explains how Germany accepted responsibility and made apologies and reparations. The Japanese are only now accepting that they did wrong. There is still a lot of denial on the Japanese side, and they continue to honor many of the war criminals.

[warpedbored]

Reparations could be messy business. Perhaps the US should give Hawaii back to the Hawaiians or the lower 48 back to the native americans. We pretty much stole it from them. Of course we had manifest destiny. Im not saying the Japanese weren't wrong. Im just sayinng that the past is past and holding a grudge isn't productive.

[tonyontherock]

Holding a grudge certainly is not healthy. That is the thing I have with them people having a problem with "Passion of the Christ". Mel's dad just made a comment that people should not be hang up on those things that may or may not have happened in the past and a whole group of people got really upset. We should forget the past and move on. You know, in Rowanda, they refuse to bury the dead just in case people forget. But that is in Africa and happened 10 years ago. Rape of Nanjing may or may not have happened. Just like what Gibson, Sr. claimed what happened in Europe was largely made up. Just for argument sake, if Adolfy had won the war or lived long enough after the war, he would have turned into a kinder, gentler person. In Japan, a few did and sucessfully ran and served in the post war government for years. Wipe off the smirk and blood, they turn kinder and gentler, post war peace loving ministers who occassionally mutters something in private: if I could chop off their head like in good old days. Then smile in public and visit those fallen brothers who were wrongly accused and hang for alleged crimes that never happen. Smile again and instruct the education ministry to rewrite the history. Imagine if that was done by a German head of state, who would pay tribe to the grave of Adolfy and tell the little ones:"never believe those Hollywood liers, children, we never baked those jews. "

[chinadave2001]

I think the real contrast is in the way that Germany and Japan have dealt with their past. In Germany, Holocaust Education is an integral part of the curriculum. They accept their role and are doing everything they can to re-define themselves in the future. In contrast, the Japanese refuse to admit their crimes, omit such things from their texts, and largely stick their heads in the sand. I suspect this refusal to "come clean" continues to drive much of the hard feelings that many Chinese still feel.

[warpedbored]

I don't dissagree with you on that Dave. I wonder why they won't come clean on it. Perhaps they don't want to lose face or they are afraid of what the repercussions might be ie reparations. I suspect it is a combination of both. Or perhaps they are just arrogant and don't feel they need to. I can say that most Japanese I have met consider themselves superior to Chinese and Koreans.

[MoonCarolCafe]

I can't believe that the man on our $20 dollar bill was such an Indian killer!

 

I like the USA. But I am under no illusions that our forefathers were all saints.

 

They were human. And we humans do some dastardly shit to each other.

 

Regarding reperations from Japan to China...

Q: How much in reparations do you pay an 800 pound gorilla?

A: Whatever it asks for.

[Martytb]

I think the real contrast is in the way that Germany and Japan have dealt with their past. In Germany, Holocaust Education is an integral  part of the curriculum. They accept their role and are doing everything they can to re-define themselves in the future. In contrast, the Japanese refuse to admit their crimes, omit such things from their texts, and largely stick their heads in the sand. I suspect this refusal to "come clean" continues to drive much of the hard feelings that many Chinese still feel.

Thank you Dave. This is my point and the point that Ms. Chang emphasizes.

[Martytb]

Message received.

 

Don you wouldn't happen to have minored in Psychology by any chance,

would ya?

 

Who's Brook Benton?

[Maui & China]

Hi, I'm new here although I've been reading CFL for a little while. Lots of great info and help. You all have a great "Ohana" here. (Family in Hawaiian)

 

I'd like to offer my perspective on the topic and say that I agree that the Japanese government should apologize for their actions in China during WW2. Just because it occurred 60+ years ago does not make the complaint any less valid or important. But before we point fingers and say "Why doesn't the Japanese government just say sorry and be done with it." Remember, it took the US Government 40 years to apologize to their own citizens, Japanese Americans for Executive Order 9066 and the "Inernment Camp."

 

Carl also mentioned Hawaii, and it took the US 100 years to apologize to the Hawaiians for the US's part in the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom. To this day, Native Hawaiians are not recognized by the US Government as a "native peoples." They do not have the status as Native American Indians have, they have no land or government to call their own. This is an ongoing fight/argument that looks like it will continue for many more years.

 

So we shouldn't feel surprised that the Chinese may still harbor ill-feelings to the Japanese. Governments move slowly, as we are experiencing or have experienced. We should never bury the past, but remember it and pass it on to our future generations.

 

Jon