Let's get real for a moment

[Orrin]

Having spent 22 consecutive months in Viet Nam between December of '66 and October of '68, there is hardly a day that goes by,especially this time of year, that I don't think of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines who are standing in harm's way in Iraq, Afganistan, and a hundred other god-forsaken holes around the world. On the other hand, I don't have a great deal of patience with reservists and National Guard members who whine about being activated and sent to do the duty that THEY SIGNED UP TO DO!!

 

There has not been conscription into military service in this country for 30 years. When one enlists in any active duty or reserve component of the military, that person KNOWINGLY assumes the risk of possible activation and deployment. That risk is the price that is paid for the pay, educational opportunities, and possible retirement benefits that the military offers.

 

I was living in Austin, TX when GW1 happened, and I vividly remember the TV news stories about the reservists and guardsmen at Ft. Hood who were complaining (whining) about the potential of separation from jobs and family, about having only one day off each week, and also about having to work more than 10 hours each day while they were training for a possible deployment to Iraq. I also remember very clearly how I almost threw my boot through the TV screen while listening to these "heart rending" stories, because the loudest whiners were doctors whose medical school tuition had been paid by the military in return for some number of years of reserve service.

 

I suppose that there is some correlation between military personnel and those of us who have made the concious choice to take a foreign sweetheart or wife. Just as those who join the military know, or should know, and accept the risks that they are taking, we who have decided to take Chinese brides know, or should know, and accept the fact that the immigration process can be a painful, lengthy, and frustrating hell, and that this hellish process can drag on for years. The hard reallity of the situation is that, whether you are trying to get a K1 or K3 visa for your lady, THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS IS GOING TO TAKE AT LEAST 1 YEAR. In my case it was almost 4 years from when I first met my wife until she came through the Seattle airport with her IR1 visa in-hand. If an aspiring soldier or immigrant petitioner is not willing to assume and accept these risks, then DON'T DO IT. No one is holding a gun to your head to either join the military, or to petition for a K1 or K3 visa.

 

I have read a number of posting on this forum from those who propose mass protest demonstrations at selected immigration centers in the U.S., and even at the consulate in Guangzhou. An action like that is absolute, counter-productive folly that will accomplish nothing more than slow down the process even more. I categorize those who propose this action right along with the whining doctors from 1991 because they, obviously, are unwilling to pay the price (long-term separation) required to get their sweetie here.

 

If this posting upsets or angers a few people, that's too bad, but, so be it. Believe me, I know what you are all going through. I have been in exactly the same situation. I cannot, however, sit silently by while such ill-conceived proposals about such things as protest demonstrations are being suggested to those who have absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by such an action.

 

If you would like to respond to this outside this forum, I'll gladly entertain and respond to your comments.

 

Orrin

[Dave G.]

This'll get interesting............

[frank1538]

Frustration vents itself in sometimes strange ways. Mass protests in Guangzhou or Moscow? Interesting but futile. BCIS is unresponsive and inept? Sue the SOBs and waste more precious time. Yes, it is very frustrating, but, like Orrin said, we all went into this with our eyes wide open - at least most of us did.

 

I started this K-1 process upon my return from China in October, 2002, but, because, I had to wait on getting certified copies of various documents, I did not file until sometime later. When I finally filed at TSC, the estimate was about 60-90 days for NOA2. Changes in priority processing resulted in a plus 6 month wait. Was I pissed? You'd better believe it. Did I want to protest? Sure, but not because it would have substantially changed things. Rather, while you sit there and wait and wait and wait, despair will set if you don't do something. But, my advice is to do something constructive. Prepare the paperwork, make the copies, build your case for the interview. These are the important things - important because you can control them. You should never worry about things that you can't control, because you can't control them.

 

I am now an old Turk. In my young Turk days, I would have taken on the world. Now, the Turk in me will still fight, but I have learned to choose my fights a bit more cerefully. Would I like to take on the government over this entire family visa processing morass? Noble thought, but sophomoric. Better to spend my time shepharding my fiancee's visa through the mazes and traps that confront us.

[keelec]

Perhaps I did not do enough research before I met my fiancée and started this process. I certainly had no idea that an entire year would go by and my application would still be stuck in "additional administrative processing" with no estimate of when it would be finished. I am still only beginning to imagine the headaches that will come once she finally gets here, we get married, then she has to apply for permanent status, a green card, and finally citizenship.

 

I didn't realize that my finding a job in Missouri would cause a 4 month delay in my application over what would have happened had I found a job in the North East or South West.

 

And, of course, had I decided to move to Canada, she would have been able to join me 6 or 8 months ago.

 

Had I decided to try to smuggle her into the country, she would have been here a year ago, and we would have been able to apply for amnesty and she would have been able to stay with half the hassle.

 

Ever notice that every congressman in the country already has pre-made forms for inquiries about immigration processing, and the consulates apparently have form letters to reply to their inquiries?

 

I haven't ever been a big one for joining the bandwagon and chaining myself to trees or laying down in front of bulldozers. Yet, there comes a point where regulations just are inappropriate and it is time to let others know that they need to reevaluate the laws.

 

Ever wonder why the US has been accused as being run by big businesses? Those organizations that have the power to impose their will on the entire country, or perhaps the entire world? Is that because they just sit around quietly?

 

----- Clifford ------

[Patrick & Li]

Well Orrin, seeings how you decided to post a long Bitching post about us Bitching. Then i will continue to Bitch because it is my way of venting.

If you dont like it, Too Bad, Bitch some more!

 

Just a little bitching by me, Patrick

[sfasianwhitecouple]

6 months from NOA1 to p3? not much to bitch about, in relative terms.

[Patrick & Li]

sorry, but there is nobody gonna stop me if i want to. Ya reckon Orrin spent 2 years in the military and never even bitched one single time? I doubt that!

Its just a way to vent!

 

Patrick

[natrigon]

... we who have decided to take Chinese brides know, or should know, and accept the fact that the immigration process can be a painful, lengthy, and frustrating hell, and that this hellish process can drag on for years.  The hard reallity of the situation is that, whether you are trying to get a K1 or K3 visa for your lady, THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS IS GOING TO TAKE AT LEAST 1 YEAR. In my case it was almost 4 years ....

Orrin,

 

Thanks for your post. I think in some cases I agree with you. But keep in mind many of us did not have the information you had. For instance in my case (like many others) I was told the entire process would take about 6 months. I was told this by our government workers and by several atty's. The NOA #1 says to expect 60-90 days, it took us over 150 days. The letter from the NVC says to expect 2-4 weeks, we are at 11 weeks and counting. Now everything is stressed. Because of the wrong timelines given to us my fiance quit her job. In order to quit her job we had to make a trip to Dazhou, meet with her main boss. Then he released her contract.

 

Now guess what, money is reaL tight. She can not find a job becasue she can not give a honest commitment to stay on. So for how long? If the governement would give an accurate timeline, say 18 months, then no problem. People could plan accordingly. So in this case I disagree with you. If any business was not responsible for its commitments it would not remain open. Why should our government be exempt from such resposibilities??

[keelec]

It hurts when I see someone that breezed by in half the time mine did.

 

How could someone possibly have something to complain about if they started 6 months after me, and now they have pulled out ahead of me in the visa processing?

 

I am sure that some of those people with 18 - 20 month timelines are just laughing when some of us are going crazy with 12, 13, or 14 month waits for a visa. We have is so good now!!!!!

However, what we all have to ask is what a REASONABLE amount of time to wait for a visa is. How long should it take to perform a namecheck? I proposed the question in a poll a while ago.

 

I was a little surprised when the majority of the people responding chose 6 months (I would have chosen less).

 

But, I think Louis summed up the reason quite eloquently:

I think 6 months is a good time frame. It allows enough of a buffer for people with false intent not to enjoy instant gratification from wrong doing. It should allow the government enough time to process their paperwork. And it gives the petitioner enough of a delay to cement his/her conviction.

 

Louis

 

Thus, if we are being subjected to 1+ year timeframes to get a visa, then we need to be heard and tell our government that it is not appropriate. It doesn't make any difference if some people have waited longer, and some have waited less. We are all being treated inappropriately by "the system".

----- Clifford -----

[MarkLuvsShuPing]

That is whats so great about the U.S. With a living constitution !! We as a people can and do make changes. Or we can sit back and  be trampeld on by the powerful and the rich and say oh well we deserve it because we didn't do anything to prevent it. In the U.S. the choice although limited is still ours,for the time being. Change for the sake of change may not be a good thing. To try to change things to correct something that is not equitable or just is not vain. Look at the time line differance from the East coast to the West coast (let alone Country to Country) and tell me you think that is right, or that nothing should be done to try to change it? I do not fill sorry for sheeple that wine about there situation and yet do nothing to change it. We can not always change things but it is or duty as U.S. citizens to try.

Orrin,

 

First of all - thank you. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for fighting in that war. For that alone, you are a hero and this country owes its' freedom to guys like you. I mean that with all sincerity. But now I'll make my comments.

 

When you were over there in Nam, fighting the good fight and following orders, you probably heard about all the pansy-ass, chicken sh**s who found a way to avoid the draft. While you were over there putting your life on the line, they were over here bitching and moaning about the war. In fact, a whole lot of them were protesting in front of the White House. They should've had their ass on the front line with the rest of you guys, but they chose to get out of it.

 

Viet Nam was a government run war with no definition of victory, no clear objectives, with a total lack of coordination between military groups and a bunch of jerk offs trying to advance their own agenda. Had the war been run properly and by the military, we would have won and Viet Nam would probably be democratic.

 

The little pansy-asses who stayed home, bitched and moaned about the war, in fact, they bitched and moaned so much that the government eventually decided to get out of Viet Nam. Now whether or not all that bitching and moaning and protesting was a deciding factor in the pull out can probably be debated. I think it cost Lyndon Johnson the Presidency. It was definitely a pain in his ass. Nevertheless, I think it had a major impact on the situation.

 

In any negative situation there will be those who do nothing, those who do what they're told and those who refuse to go along what they're told to do. In my mind, the ones who do nothing are just in the way. The old saying, "Lead, follow or get out of the way, but do something" comes to mind.

 

The situation with the immigration of our loved ones, as I understand it, (remember I'm still kinda new) should be a lot better. There is no apparent reason for the delays in processing except that the government is trying to run it. It is a situation we can all just accept it or we can bitch and moan and protest about it. The situation can't get much worse, can it? But it can get better.

 

So let's all fight the good fight. We'll dutifully submit our paperwork and submit to the wait time, but I don't think it would hurt a thing to be a pain in the ass to some of these beaureucratic jerk offs that are needlessly keeping us away from our loved ones.

[frank1538]

Would you consider George Washington and Ben Franklin sophomoric too?

I find neither Washinton, Franklin nor you sophomoric. There are many ways to skin the cat, some better than others. I just don't think that trying to take on the government over visa processing would be a very productive endeavor.

[Eric&Yuhui]

My wife is being detained in China with no end in site by the BCIS.

How about a class action law suit for breach of contract. I was told by them that I would have my wife here in 6 to 8 months!!! Really its too bad we can't sue government entities for undue pain and suffering.

yeah... right after the 5 years or so it would take to win a class suit, which you would not.

Come on Ray. Your wife is not being "detained" . Neither was my fiancee, as long as ,I too ,had to wait and hated the system as much as you do. We chose to marry a foreigner. Nobody forced us. Certainly not BCIS.

Now we have to play by their rules.. Unfair ? Certainly.. Ridiculous wait ? You betcha.... But this is not "detention".

[crazynanhai]

I am usaly quit , and read the posts to help my case . Ray your wife can leave China go to a lot of countrys , but not to the US . She is not being detaned , only not being let in to the US , yet .

Orrin like many others my reserch lead me to believe my case will take up to 6 months . 12 months latter I was still waiting and learning a lot . 16 months latter my father passes away and still no visa for my fiancee . I am on my 19 month now .

I just received a email from GZ telling me the name check was completed and our interview will be Jan.05,2004 . And the P4 packet will be sent out next week . GZ did what the could with the number of cases the have . The FBI took 145 days , 25 days more then what they like them to take . But after talking to FBI superviser and telling her my time line and happenings . it took them 1 1/2 weeks to clear the case and get it to GZ . The BIG delay was with the DOS . Many do not understand there system and give out false information . And from the time I was introduced to my girl till the time she gets here with the visa will be just under 5 years .

 

And Thank God for this wait is about to get over !!

 

Ladd

[keelec]

Ladd,

 

Congratulations on finally getting the interview.

 

I wish your fiancee the best of luck with her interview next month and your happy reunion.

 

Wow, it is scary when I see the occasional 19 month timeline. Especially when they are right next to another 7 month timeline with seemingly hardly any difference between the cases.

 

In a sense, I can understand an occasional case that takes 6 months at the FBI. They have a huge task to check millions of names, especially with the inaccuracies of translations. That still doesn't explain the other 1+ years that it took to get the information to the FBI and deal with the results.

 

Anyway, at least it is all drawing to an end.

 

Best Wishes,

----- Clifford ------

[Mick]

I am usaly quit , and read the posts to help my case .  Ray your wife can leave China go to a lot of countrys , but not to the US . She is not being detaned , only not being let in to the US , yet .

Orrin like many others my reserch lead me to believe my case will take up to 6 months . 12 months latter I was still waiting and learning a lot . 16 months latter my father passes away and still no visa for my fiancee .  I am on my 19 month now .

I just received a email from GZ telling me the name check was completed and our interview will be Jan.05,2004 . And the P4 packet will be sent out next week .  GZ  did what the could with the number of cases the have .  The FBI took 145 days  , 25 days more then what they like them to take . But after talking to FBI superviser and telling her my time line and happenings . it took them 1 1/2 weeks to clear the case and get it to GZ . The BIG delay was with the DOS . Many do not understand there system and give out false information . And from the time I was introduced to my girl till the time she gets here with the visa will be just under 5 years .

 

  And Thank God for this wait is about to get over !!

 

    Ladd

Really glad to hear you finally have been scheduled for an interview. You had one heck of a long time line. Good luck on January 5 and best wishes.