Japan's Arrogance Apparently Undeserved

[A Mafan]

Where do the Japanese come from?

 

Short answer: Korea.

[tonado]

We are all originate from Africa anyway. Please don't turn this into a bashing Japanese thread.

[A Mafan]

Sorry, I should have worded it differently.

 

The article talks about Japan being extremely proud of having developed separately on their own island, genetically/linguistically/culturally unique, uninfluenced for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

 

It also talks about Japan claiming that their occupation of Korea was nothing more than returning to the natural historic status of yesteryear when the Japanese invaded and ruled Korea.

 

They feel so strongly about this they ignore archeological facts, and accept only those that support them being the only race that developed in near-total isolation. That's all in the article.

 

So I enjoy science kinda saying, "Um, no. You're Koreans."

 

It doesn't take away the occupation of Korea and the mutual disdain.

 

But I do enjoy seeing the truth become harder to deny in the same way I enjoy watching the Denver Broncos get beat.

[fineart]

Interesting topic. Amafan, I like your deep-depthed point.

 

To me, I have seen Koreans so eager to connect them with Japanese. Everything nice is originated from Koreans'. According to Koreans, Confutious was Korean, Quyuan was Korean, Beijing should be Koreans' territory, Chinese Characters were invented by Koreans but they abandoned using these characters for some historical reason, etc. I believe if Japan is poor and Japanese have bad image in the international society, Koreans will not be so eager to connect themselves with Japanese.

 

Most Japanese I have seen in USA are very courteous and friendly, giving me good impression. However I do have experienced bad-mannered Japanese in USA. From their overall temperament, I knew they were not worth bothering with. I believe their fellow people who have high characters don't feel proud of being related to them for their low behaviors.

 

Some Chinese only bash Japanese, and refuse to see the good characters of Japapnese people. Japanese have a lot that people from other cultures should learn from. They make their country so beautiful and clean, they are so solidery, they cherish their people(e.g, if one Japanese meets adversity, the whole country and many Japanese will contribute to help). They don't make loud noise in public places which is a way to respect others. They are good at researching and creating and have helped science advance fast, which benefit the whole humankind(that is not to say other countries didn't do anything).

 

There are historical reasons that Chinese hate Japanese. It is hard to forgive their slautering Chinese in the past. But that is not today's Japanese trying to kill Chinese. If some Japanese are arrogant now, yes, we return them what they deserve to match their arrogance. But to so many friendly well-bred Japanese, it is not right to be hateful to them.

[dnoblett]

Fineart! Very good and well written comment!

 

You are a jewel here at CFL!

[warpedbored]

Actually the indigenous people of the Japanese islands, particularly Hokaido are the Ainu. Genetically they are closer to Caucasians than Asians. Several theories abound about how Asians came to Japan. I believe the most accepted is Chinese people via Korea. This was thousands of years ago and Japan like all other cultures has their own creation story. In short a god and goddess were sent from the heavens to do something with the earth. The plunged their spear into the sea, pulled them out and what fell off of the tips became the Japanese islands. Later the first descendant of the Emperors of Japan was supposed to be a direct descendant of the gods and given the three holy treasures of Japan. The sword, mirror and Jewel.

According to legend, these artifacts were brought by Ninigi-no-Mikoto, legendary ancestor of the Japanese imperial line, when his grandmother, the Sun Goddess Amaterasu, sent him to pacify Japan. The origin of the items remain a question today. Traditionally, they were a symbol of the emperor's divinity as a descendant of Amaterasu, from which he derived legitimacy as paramount ruler of Japan.

According to legend, when Amaterasu hid in a cave from her brother Susanoo, thus plunging the world in darkness, the goddess Ame-no-Uzume hung the mirror and jewels outside the cave and lured her out of the cave, at which point she saw her own reflection and was startled enough that the gods could pull her out of the cave. Susanoo later presented in apology to Amaterasu the sword, Kusanagi, which he had obtained from the body of an eight-headed serpent, Orochi.

How Asians came to Japan is pretty similar to how Native Americans came to North America. I don't know if Korea was even a country when the first Asians came to Japan. Since China is one of the oldest countries on earth I think it would be more likely that the descendants of both Japan and Korea were Chinese first.

[george lee]

Chinese Characters were invented by Koreans but they abandoned using these characters for some historical reason, etc.

 

i do not think koreans invented chinese characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character, please prove me wrong.

[Smitty]

Fineart and Warpedbored already said what I can say.

 

However, I'll add that back in my college days, and I was able to associate with many Japanese, there was a certain ambivalence towards the Ainu. I don't know if it's still there in Japan currently, but it was.

 

Another thing about this, is that it's mostly the old guard right wingers in Japan that promote these ideas of Japanese superiority that foster this arrogance. It's not a belief held by most Japanese.

[fineart]

Chinese Characters were invented by Koreans but they abandoned using these characters for some historical reason, etc.

 

i do not think koreans invented chinese characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character, please prove me wrong.

George, wait and see, there will be many knowledgeable CFLers proving that is wrong or correct, as long as they have time.

[weiaijiayou]

Actually the indigenous people of the Japanese islands, particularly Hokaido are the Ainu. Genetically they are closer to Caucasians than Asians. Several theories abound about how Asians came to Japan. I believe the most accepted is Chinese people via Korea. This was thousands of years ago and Japan like all other cultures has their own creation story. In short a god and goddess were sent from the heavens to do something with the earth. The plunged their spear into the sea, pulled them out and what fell off of the tips became the Japanese islands. Later the first descendant of the Emperors of Japan was supposed to be a direct descendant of the gods and given the three holy treasures of Japan. The sword, mirror and Jewel.

According to legend, these artifacts were brought by Ninigi-no-Mikoto, legendary ancestor of the Japanese imperial line, when his grandmother, the Sun Goddess Amaterasu, sent him to pacify Japan. The origin of the items remain a question today. Traditionally, they were a symbol of the emperor's divinity as a descendant of Amaterasu, from which he derived legitimacy as paramount ruler of Japan.

According to legend, when Amaterasu hid in a cave from her brother Susanoo, thus plunging the world in darkness, the goddess Ame-no-Uzume hung the mirror and jewels outside the cave and lured her out of the cave, at which point she saw her own reflection and was startled enough that the gods could pull her out of the cave. Susanoo later presented in apology to Amaterasu the sword, Kusanagi, which he had obtained from the body of an eight-headed serpent, Orochi.

How Asians came to Japan is pretty similar to how Native Americans came to North America. I don't know if Korea was even a country when the first Asians came to Japan. Since China is one of the oldest countries on earth I think it would be more likely that the descendants of both Japan and Korea were Chinese first.

After reading the Jared Diamond article, I'd say that this summary is pretty darned good off the top of your head.

 

As for the ancestors basically just being Chinese, I think it's important that the influx of the Yayoi settlers were (at least proximally) from what is now Korea in order to explain the uniqueness of the Japanese language. According to Diamond, Japanese is so highly unique that it could not have possibly developed from even its closest modern relative (Korean) in less than 4,000 years. But it may be possible that Japanese developed from the progenitor to Korean (or an ancient language that existed alongside the progenitor to Korean) that was spoken by the Koreans who came to Japan beginning in 400BC.

 

This was an interesting read. Thanks for posting it. I had always guessed that the process was something like this, but perhaps this would be expected for a western person with several close Korean friends.

 

I also don¡¯t think the tendency of Japanese to become overly defensive about issues like this is very unique, especially in East Asia. Once a Korean friend of mine remarked about how Korea experiences dust storms that originate in China¡¯s Gobi Desert. In response a Chinese acquaintance who was also there adamantly denied that any dust or pollution comes to South Korea from China.

[george lee]

Chinese Characters were invented by Koreans but they abandoned using these characters for some historical reason, etc.

 

i do not think koreans invented chinese characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character, please prove me wrong.

George, wait and see, there will be many knowledgeable CFLers proving that is wrong or correct, as long as they have time.

 

 

i'm waiting...

[Randy W]

Okay -

1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or

Shang state, BC 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.

 

2. Among countries that adopted Hanja, only Koreans use exactly one syllable for one character.

 

Although Chinese are technically monosyllabic, Chinese or Japanese used one or more syllables de facto for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.

 

For another example, the sound for 'white' in Hanja in 'baek' (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese.

 

3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.

 

For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans raised pigs within their house.

 

Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot,

seemingly unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend linking the sun to the golden crow [see Footnote 2].

 

4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is inscribed in dolmens in Korea.

 

A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both current Hanja and Korean alphabet (hangul). Hanja is a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of phonogram + ideogram in the world

 

 

Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Hanja was originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation

system for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.

 

http://thedaoculture.com/yinyang/easternph...id=2_4&no=4

 

The closest thing to a credit for this article was at the beginning "I found this post at a discussion group. I thought it was interesting enough so I post it here"

Edited November 13, 2009 by Randy W (see edit history)

[george lee]

Okay -

1. The original pictographs called 'gab-gol' (bone and shell) or 'bok-sa' in Korean were certainly invented during the Yin dynasty (or

Shang state, BC 1600~BC 1046), although it is uncertain who was the inventor. There is no dispute regarding this matter between Korean and Chinese historians. There are ample recent evidences that the dominant people of the Yin dynasty was Korean, which some Chinese historians also acknowledge.

 

2. Among countries that adopted Hanja, only Koreans use exactly one syllable for one character.

 

Although Chinese are technically monosyllabic, Chinese or Japanese used one or more syllables de facto for one character. A good example is the sounds denoting the numbers. Only Koreans use just one syllable for one number. So, it is very easy for Koreans to say any complex numbers quickly.

 

For another example, the sound for 'white' in Hanja in 'baek' (one syllable) in Korean but 'bai' (two syllable) in Chinese.

 

3. Some basic pictographs reflect Korean life-style and customs.

 

For example, the character denoting 'house' (ga in Korean) contains a character denoting a pig (hog) in the lower part. In the house, people live, not a pig live. Why did they adopt a pig to denote a house? Only Koreans raised pigs within their house.

 

Another example is the character denoting 'sun'. The character contains a dot within a rectangle. Why did they contain the dot,

seemingly unnecessarily? The dot denotes a golden crow. Only Koreans had the legend linking the sun to the golden crow [see Footnote 2].

 

4. Korean history book describes the origin of written systems, which is inscribed in dolmens in Korea.

 

A Korean history book called Chun-bu-gyung records the origin of both current Hanja and Korean alphabet (hangul). Hanja is a kind of pictograph + ideograph, while hangul is the most advanced of phonogram + ideogram in the world

 

 

Based on these four facts, I strongly argue that the Hanja was originated and developed by Koreans. The differences in pronunciation

system for numbers between Chinese and Korean clearly indicates it's Korean origin.

 

http://thedaoculture.com/yinyang/easternph...id=2_4&no=4

 

The closest thing to a credit for this article was at the beginning "I found this post at a discussion group. I thought it was interesting enough so I post it here"

 

the late chairman mao is flipping in his grave.

[tonado]

Chinese Characters were invented by Koreans but they abandoned using these characters for some historical reason, etc.

 

i do not think koreans invented chinese characters, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character, please prove me wrong.

George, wait and see, there will be many knowledgeable CFLers proving that is wrong or correct, as long as they have time.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanja

 

"Hanja is the Korean name for Chinese characters. More specifically, it refers to those Chinese characters borrowed from Chinese and incorporated into the Korean language with Korean pronunciation."

[warpedbored]

My ex wife is Japanese, I have many Japanese friends. I've been to Japan several times. I've studied Japanese history. They are not bad people. They have no more control over what their ancestors did to the Chinese than we do over what ours did to Native Americans or African Americans. This site does not tolerate flaming any ethnic group.

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