Lessons from Chinese Television Shows

[A Mafan]

(I don't know if ths is necessarily in the right location; mods, please move if necessary)

 

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

 

2) In love stories, while there is a basis in reality, the most romantic and/or emotionally moving parts of the story will be an ideal that is difficult, but not impossible, to achieve...if it were commonplace, it wouldn't be the climax of the storyline; if it were impossible, it wouldn't be a satisfying resolution to the storyline's problem

 

With those ground rules, I fully recommend the TV show "Struggle" (¡¶·Ü¶·¡·, Fendou).

 

It was filmed in Beijing about 2 years ago, and it is based on the lives of a group of 20-somethings as they learn about love and life.

 

It features several of the younger, up-and-coming actors in Mainland China.

 

There are no English sub-titles, so it is pretty much only for those who have enough Chinese skills to understand (although you will probably still need help with some slang, or more difficult phrases).

 

Here's one lesson:

Xiangnan (male) falls for Xiaoyun. Xiaoyun is flattered by the romance, and they get married. They probably rush into it too much.

Xiangnan really does everything he can for Xiaoyun.

She is fairly selfish, demanding, and never satisfied.

 

Xiangnan kind of loses his ambitions and loses his romance. It is never said, but he seems to think that if nothing he does is ever good enough, why try?

 

He very nearly cheats on Xiaoyun. He wants to put himself in a bad position with another woman, but the other woman doesn't want to mess with a married man. I include this only to show that Xiangnan isn't a saint.

 

She gets more and more dissatisfied with him. They fight several times.

 

She gets pregnant, then gets an abortion without telling him.

Then she tells him she is pregnant to see his reaction. He does react with immaturity, telling her it isn't the right time, which is basically telling her to get an abortion. Finally, he breaks down and says he was wrong, he recognizes he has been immature, but he is now ready to be a father.

 

Xiaoyun then tells him the truth.

He is understandably upset, and (maybe) tries to kill himself by throwing himself off the balcony. It might be an overly dramatic reaction...but Xiaoyun doesn't have any pity on him, and blames him for his immature overreaction to the news.

 

She says she wants him out, and he finally moves out, but considers it only temporary and tries to get back together. Even in moving out, he does laundry, buys toilet paper, and worries about leaving the fridge stocked with food.

 

Xiaoyun then demands a divorce. They go several times, but there is always a problem so the divorce isn't finalized. She admits to her friend that it is all just a game she is playing with Xiangnan, she doesn't intend to divorce.

 

One night Xiaoyun is talking to Xiangnan's friend, Huazi. Huazi always liked Xiaoyun, and was devastated when she married Xiangnan. They go back to her apartment, and do...nothing. He leaves.

 

Some things happen, and Xiaoyun and Xiangnan seem to be growing closer. She gets drunk, they go back to her place, they get to the bed, and she asks him if he's been with anyone else, kissed anyone else, dated anyone else. He says no (it's the truth...he never got close to any of those with this other girl). He asks her. She never answers straight, but implies she went all the way with a guy...and finally admits it was Huazi, Xiangnan's best friend.

 

Xiangnan can't handle it. They divorce. He starts chasing another woman.

 

Xiaoyun admits to her friend that she was just trying to torture Xiangnan a little bit, make him jealous.

 

NO ONE tells Xiangnan the truth. (Why? Face?)

In this story, several times this sort of life-changing decision is made on the basis of misunderstanding...but when they do find out the truth, it doesn't make a difference. We can discuss why in another thread. I am trying to get somewhere with this one, and don't want to get off on a tangent.

 

Xiangnan tells Xiaoyun: "I have now fulfilled any responsibility I had towards you. I did every possible thing I could for you. It was never enough. You have demanded everything of me. It was never enough. I can't give any more. I don't love you anymore."

 

Xiangnan finds another woman, and she is wonderful. She is a rich lawyer who majored in psychology. She is really great to Xiangnan. She doesn't ask anything from him. She isn't jealous of Xiaoyun. She gives him so much, and just thinks he's wonderful and loves being with him just because of him.

 

They decide to marry.

 

On the way in to marry, Xiaoyun shows up.

 

She begs Xiangnan to remarry her. She is crying and clings to his leg.

 

Xiangnan leaves his new girlfriend to go back to Xiaoyun.

When Xiaoyun asks him why, he says, "I never saw you cry like that before. I found that I still feel responsible for you."

 

He knows what he's giving up with the other girl. He knows he is leaving his perfect woman. (one theme of this show: people are constantly unable to love/appreciate/be with the people who treat them best) He regrets it immensely, and they show it. But he doesn't go back on his decision. The show ends soon after, so you don't see if Xiaoyun has changed her attitude or not, or if they are happier or not.

 

The lesson?

Chinese, especially Chinese women, expect men to be like Xiangnan. They don't expect them to be perfect, or unfeeling. They understand that everyone has limits, and Xiaoyun obviously went too far. But when push came to shove, and Xiaoyun realized she couldn't live without him, he went back. He went back, not because she made a great speech about what she learned or how she would be different, but because she cried. Because she showed she *needs* him. Because the man in him cannot refuse the woman who needs him that much.

 

Because for a man, responsibility is the most important. Because for a man, having a woman depend on you may not always be pleasant, but is more soul-satisfying than having a woman who will go to great lengths to please your every whim.

 

This theme is also echoed in different ways with the main couple, Lutao and Xialing.

 

I would love to have anyone else who has seen this show provide their reaction, to confirm the lesson or to provide an explanation of why I misunderstood it or am taking it too broadly.

 

As a side note: my wife and I had a long talk about it. In many ways, she is very similar to Xiaoyun, and I am very similar to Xiangnan. She was a little afraid I'd watch the show and get mad at her and say, "You are just like Xiaoyun, just as selfish and never satisfied!"

To tell the truth, I noticed similarities, but I think there were some very basic differences. I wasn't as suitable a Chinese husband as Xiangnan, so Yatou had reasons to be dissatisfied. She isn't as selfish as Xiaoyun. And she certainly hasn't played games with me and wouldn't ever lie to me just to tease/torture/test me. Xiaoyun also liked being the center of attention, and Yatou has never been that way at all.

 

Okay, this has gone on long enough. I'll save further thoughts for replies, or in another thread.

[carl.hops]

I've been looking for a nice t.v. show in Chinese to watch. I'll try looking for it with xun lei.

[Guest jin979]

(I don't know if ths is necessarily in the right location; mods, please move if necessary)

 

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

 

2) In love stories, while there is a basis in reality, the most romantic and/or emotionally moving parts of the story will be an ideal that is difficult, but not impossible, to achieve...if it were commonplace, it wouldn't be the climax of the storyline; if it were impossible, it wouldn't be a satisfying resolution to the storyline's problem

 

With those ground rules, I fully recommend the TV show "Struggle" (《奋斗》, Fendou).

 

It was filmed in Beijing about 2 years ago, and it is based on the lives of a group of 20-somethings as they learn about love and life.

 

It features several of the younger, up-and-coming actors in Mainland China.

 

There are no English sub-titles, so it is pretty much only for those who have enough Chinese skills to understand (although you will probably still need help with some slang, or more difficult phrases).

 

Here's one lesson:

Xiangnan (male) falls for Xiaoyun. Xiaoyun is flattered by the romance, and they get married. They probably rush into it too much.

Xiangnan really does everything he can for Xiaoyun.

She is fairly selfish, demanding, and never satisfied.

 

Xiangnan kind of loses his ambitions and loses his romance. It is never said, but he seems to think that if nothing he does is ever good enough, why try?

 

He very nearly cheats on Xiaoyun. He wants to put himself in a bad position with another woman, but the other woman doesn't want to mess with a married man. I include this only to show that Xiangnan isn't a saint.

 

She gets more and more dissatisfied with him. They fight several times.

 

She gets pregnant, then gets an abortion without telling him.

Then she tells him she is pregnant to see his reaction. He does react with immaturity, telling her it isn't the right time, which is basically telling her to get an abortion. Finally, he breaks down and says he was wrong, he recognizes he has been immature, but he is now ready to be a father.

 

Xiaoyun then tells him the truth.

He is understandably upset, and (maybe) tries to kill himself by throwing himself off the balcony. It might be an overly dramatic reaction...but Xiaoyun doesn't have any pity on him, and blames him for his immature overreaction to the news.

 

She says she wants him out, and he finally moves out, but considers it only temporary and tries to get back together. Even in moving out, he does laundry, buys toilet paper, and worries about leaving the fridge stocked with food.

 

Xiaoyun then demands a divorce. They go several times, but there is always a problem so the divorce isn't finalized. She admits to her friend that it is all just a game she is playing with Xiangnan, she doesn't intend to divorce.

 

One night Xiaoyun is talking to Xiangnan's friend, Huazi. Huazi always liked Xiaoyun, and was devastated when she married Xiangnan. They go back to her apartment, and do...nothing. He leaves.

 

Some things happen, and Xiaoyun and Xiangnan seem to be growing closer. She gets drunk, they go back to her place, they get to the bed, and she asks him if he's been with anyone else, kissed anyone else, dated anyone else. He says no (it's the truth...he never got close to any of those with this other girl). He asks her. She never answers straight, but implies she went all the way with a guy...and finally admits it was Huazi, Xiangnan's best friend.

 

Xiangnan can't handle it. They divorce. He starts chasing another woman.

 

Xiaoyun admits to her friend that she was just trying to torture Xiangnan a little bit, make him jealous.

 

NO ONE tells Xiangnan the truth. (Why? Face?)

In this story, several times this sort of life-changing decision is made on the basis of misunderstanding...but when they do find out the truth, it doesn't make a difference. We can discuss why in another thread. I am trying to get somewhere with this one, and don't want to get off on a tangent.

 

Xiangnan tells Xiaoyun: "I have now fulfilled any responsibility I had towards you. I did every possible thing I could for you. It was never enough. You have demanded everything of me. It was never enough. I can't give any more. I don't love you anymore."

 

Xiangnan finds another woman, and she is wonderful. She is a rich lawyer who majored in psychology. She is really great to Xiangnan. She doesn't ask anything from him. She isn't jealous of Xiaoyun. She gives him so much, and just thinks he's wonderful and loves being with him just because of him.

 

They decide to marry.

 

On the way in to marry, Xiaoyun shows up.

 

She begs Xiangnan to remarry her. She is crying and clings to his leg.

 

Xiangnan leaves his new girlfriend to go back to Xiaoyun.

When Xiaoyun asks him why, he says, "I never saw you cry like that before. I found that I still feel responsible for you."

 

He knows what he's giving up with the other girl. He knows he is leaving his perfect woman. (one theme of this show: people are constantly unable to love/appreciate/be with the people who treat them best) He regrets it immensely, and they show it. But he doesn't go back on his decision. The show ends soon after, so you don't see if Xiaoyun has changed her attitude or not, or if they are happier or not.

 

The lesson?

Chinese, especially Chinese women, expect men to be like Xiangnan. They don't expect them to be perfect, or unfeeling. They understand that everyone has limits, and Xiaoyun obviously went too far. But when push came to shove, and Xiaoyun realized she couldn't live without him, he went back. He went back, not because she made a great speech about what she learned or how she would be different, but because she cried. Because she showed she *needs* him. Because the man in him cannot refuse the woman who needs him that much.

 

Because for a man, responsibility is the most important. Because for a man, having a woman depend on you may not always be pleasant, but is more soul-satisfying than having a woman who will go to great lengths to please your every whim.

 

This theme is also echoed in different ways with the main couple, Lutao and Xialing.

 

I would love to have anyone else who has seen this show provide their reaction, to confirm the lesson or to provide an explanation of why I misunderstood it or am taking it too broadly.

 

As a side note: my wife and I had a long talk about it. In many ways, she is very similar to Xiaoyun, and I am very similar to Xiangnan. She was a little afraid I'd watch the show and get mad at her and say, "You are just like Xiaoyun, just as selfish and never satisfied!"

To tell the truth, I noticed similarities, but I think there were some very basic differences. I wasn't as suitable a Chinese husband as Xiangnan, so Yatou had reasons to be dissatisfied. She isn't as selfish as Xiaoyun. And she certainly hasn't played games with me and wouldn't ever lie to me just to tease/torture/test me. Xiaoyun also liked being the center of attention, and Yatou has never been that way at all.

 

Okay, this has gone on long enough. I'll save further thoughts for replies, or in another thread.

 

i think you saw it correct

some women will be lick this.push-push-test-test and many chinese men will do as he did. its seen as quality from him, but as to her ? i feel she shows little quality in just my eye.

many chinese women like to play this kind of thing with men and this would be very confusing for a western man if he gets this kind of women.

 

i admit i test too, not to that much. but i say most chinese women do test and sa jiao

Edited October 19, 2009 by jin979 (see edit history)

[A Mafan]

I've been looking for a nice t.v. show in Chinese to watch. I'll try looking for it with xun lei.

 

《奋斗》is very good, a good choice.

 

Another good one is 《士兵突击》. It is the story of a country bumpkin who uses his integrity and determination to become a respected soldier. The fictional character's name is 徐三多 (xu san duo). The story left such an impression on the Chinese people that when the earthquakes hit Sichuan, people injured and/or trapped under rubble were yelling for 徐三多 to come save them.

It stars the man who played the naive young boy from 《天下无贼》。

 

《我叫金三顺》This is the Korean version of Ugly Betty. It was popular in China, dubbed into Chinese, of course. Interestingly, it really investigates men's hearts and emotions as much or more than women's...although being a romance, it certainly explores/portrays women's feelings, too. Very funny.

 

《动什么别动感情》portrays/explains the life situations and attitudes of the 70s generation, just like 《奋斗》does the 80s generation. Excellent show. I'll probably post some lessons from that one someday, too.

Edited October 19, 2009 by A Mafan (see edit history)

[Smitty]

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

I will take exception to the second sentence. Good science fiction and fantasy allow writers to take a situation and present it in a different light, and expose people to different concepts about thinking about said situations, while bypassing preconceived notions.

 

The rest I'll agree with!

[A Mafan]

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

I will take exception to the second sentence. Good science fiction and fantasy allow writers to take a situation and present it in a different light, and expose people to different concepts about thinking about said situations, while bypassing preconceived notions.

 

The rest I'll agree with!

I'm absolutely with you about the value of good SF&F. It's why I like it.

 

But I believe it does that societal exploration for people who understand that culture, not for someone who is outside trying to learn that culture.

 

If I wanted someone to understand about modern US life, I would probably suggest Hope Floats over Gattica, Dan in Real Life over Blade Runner, Pretty Woman over The Terminator.

 

That's all I meant.

 

The Chinese would get a heckuva lot more out of Red Cliff than you or I would, because they know the old tropes that are being recast in new light through the use of the fantastic.

 

We may enjoy Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but I'll be we don't get the bulk of the cultural references. But we can by watching Fendou.

[Mike and Yan]

(I don't know if ths is necessarily in the right location; mods, please move if necessary)

 

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

 

2) In love stories, while there is a basis in reality, the most romantic and/or emotionally moving parts of the story will be an ideal that is difficult, but not impossible, to achieve...if it were commonplace, it wouldn't be the climax of the storyline; if it were impossible, it wouldn't be a satisfying resolution to the storyline's problem

......

very interesting story......thanks.

 

there is an interesting truth you describe and it is a reason that I enjoy the Chinese movies and stories. There often is an interesting truth.

 

I might not have understood why Xiangnan went back to his ex-wife without the explanation 'she needs him'.

 

Is it possible to generalize that Chinese movies/drama are similar to those in the US during the 1950s?

[whome?]

(I don't know if ths is necessarily in the right location; mods, please move if necessary)

 

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

 

2) In love stories, while there is a basis in reality, the most romantic and/or emotionally moving parts of the story will be an ideal that is difficult, but not impossible, to achieve...if it were commonplace, it wouldn't be the climax of the storyline; if it were impossible, it wouldn't be a satisfying resolution to the storyline's problem

 

With those ground rules, I fully recommend the TV show "Struggle" (¡¶·Ü¶·¡·, Fendou).

 

It was filmed in Beijing about 2 years ago, and it is based on the lives of a group of 20-somethings as they learn about love and life.

 

It features several of the younger, up-and-coming actors in Mainland China.

 

There are no English sub-titles, so it is pretty much only for those who have enough Chinese skills to understand (although you will probably still need help with some slang, or more difficult phrases).

 

Here's one lesson:

Xiangnan (male) falls for Xiaoyun. Xiaoyun is flattered by the romance, and they get married. They probably rush into it too much.

Xiangnan really does everything he can for Xiaoyun.

She is fairly selfish, demanding, and never satisfied.

 

Xiangnan kind of loses his ambitions and loses his romance. It is never said, but he seems to think that if nothing he does is ever good enough, why try?

 

He very nearly cheats on Xiaoyun. He wants to put himself in a bad position with another woman, but the other woman doesn't want to mess with a married man. I include this only to show that Xiangnan isn't a saint.

 

She gets more and more dissatisfied with him. They fight several times.

 

She gets pregnant, then gets an abortion without telling him.

Then she tells him she is pregnant to see his reaction. He does react with immaturity, telling her it isn't the right time, which is basically telling her to get an abortion. Finally, he breaks down and says he was wrong, he recognizes he has been immature, but he is now ready to be a father.

 

Xiaoyun then tells him the truth.

He is understandably upset, and (maybe) tries to kill himself by throwing himself off the balcony. It might be an overly dramatic reaction...but Xiaoyun doesn't have any pity on him, and blames him for his immature overreaction to the news.

 

She says she wants him out, and he finally moves out, but considers it only temporary and tries to get back together. Even in moving out, he does laundry, buys toilet paper, and worries about leaving the fridge stocked with food.

 

Xiaoyun then demands a divorce. They go several times, but there is always a problem so the divorce isn't finalized. She admits to her friend that it is all just a game she is playing with Xiangnan, she doesn't intend to divorce.

 

One night Xiaoyun is talking to Xiangnan's friend, Huazi. Huazi always liked Xiaoyun, and was devastated when she married Xiangnan. They go back to her apartment, and do...nothing. He leaves.

 

Some things happen, and Xiaoyun and Xiangnan seem to be growing closer. She gets drunk, they go back to her place, they get to the bed, and she asks him if he's been with anyone else, kissed anyone else, dated anyone else. He says no (it's the truth...he never got close to any of those with this other girl). He asks her. She never answers straight, but implies she went all the way with a guy...and finally admits it was Huazi, Xiangnan's best friend.

 

Xiangnan can't handle it. They divorce. He starts chasing another woman.

 

Xiaoyun admits to her friend that she was just trying to torture Xiangnan a little bit, make him jealous.

 

NO ONE tells Xiangnan the truth. (Why? Face?)

In this story, several times this sort of life-changing decision is made on the basis of misunderstanding...but when they do find out the truth, it doesn't make a difference. We can discuss why in another thread. I am trying to get somewhere with this one, and don't want to get off on a tangent.

 

Xiangnan tells Xiaoyun: "I have now fulfilled any responsibility I had towards you. I did every possible thing I could for you. It was never enough. You have demanded everything of me. It was never enough. I can't give any more. I don't love you anymore."

 

Xiangnan finds another woman, and she is wonderful. She is a rich lawyer who majored in psychology. She is really great to Xiangnan. She doesn't ask anything from him. She isn't jealous of Xiaoyun. She gives him so much, and just thinks he's wonderful and loves being with him just because of him.

 

They decide to marry.

 

On the way in to marry, Xiaoyun shows up.

 

She begs Xiangnan to remarry her. She is crying and clings to his leg.

 

Xiangnan leaves his new girlfriend to go back to Xiaoyun.

When Xiaoyun asks him why, he says, "I never saw you cry like that before. I found that I still feel responsible for you."

 

He knows what he's giving up with the other girl. He knows he is leaving his perfect woman. (one theme of this show: people are constantly unable to love/appreciate/be with the people who treat them best) He regrets it immensely, and they show it. But he doesn't go back on his decision. The show ends soon after, so you don't see if Xiaoyun has changed her attitude or not, or if they are happier or not.

 

The lesson?

Chinese, especially Chinese women, expect men to be like Xiangnan. They don't expect them to be perfect, or unfeeling. They understand that everyone has limits, and Xiaoyun obviously went too far. But when push came to shove, and Xiaoyun realized she couldn't live without him, he went back. He went back, not because she made a great speech about what she learned or how she would be different, but because she cried. Because she showed she *needs* him. Because the man in him cannot refuse the woman who needs him that much.

 

Because for a man, responsibility is the most important. Because for a man, having a woman depend on you may not always be pleasant, but is more soul-satisfying than having a woman who will go to great lengths to please your every whim.

 

This theme is also echoed in different ways with the main couple, Lutao and Xialing.

 

I would love to have anyone else who has seen this show provide their reaction, to confirm the lesson or to provide an explanation of why I misunderstood it or am taking it too broadly.

 

As a side note: my wife and I had a long talk about it. In many ways, she is very similar to Xiaoyun, and I am very similar to Xiangnan. She was a little afraid I'd watch the show and get mad at her and say, "You are just like Xiaoyun, just as selfish and never satisfied!"

To tell the truth, I noticed similarities, but I think there were some very basic differences. I wasn't as suitable a Chinese husband as Xiangnan, so Yatou had reasons to be dissatisfied. She isn't as selfish as Xiaoyun. And she certainly hasn't played games with me and wouldn't ever lie to me just to tease/torture/test me. Xiaoyun also liked being the center of attention, and Yatou has never been that way at all.

 

Okay, this has gone on long enough. I'll save further thoughts for replies, or in another thread.

 

i think you saw it correct

some women will be lick this.push-push-test-test and many chinese men will do as he did. its seen as quality from him, but as to her ? i feel she shows little quality in just my eye.

many chinese women like to play this kind of thing with men and this would be very confusing for a western man if he gets this kind of women.

 

i admit i test too, not to that much. but i say most chinese women do test and sa jiao

yes it is confusing to the western man because when tested like this his response is usually to say "fine...if that is what you want...see you later...call me when you settle down"....

 

this is not what the chinese woman expects..she expects you to run to her and hold her...even go find her if she ran off...to show her she is the only thing in the world...

 

do i like it..no...do i understand it..yes...do i do it..damn right...

[Guest Pommey]

Assumptions:

1) Although TV shows and movies are fiction, they have some basis in reality. Thus, you can learn cultural truths from watching TV shows and movies, particularly in non-science fiction, non-fantasy stories.

I will take exception to the second sentence. Good science fiction and fantasy allow writers to take a situation and present it in a different light, and expose people to different concepts about thinking about said situations, while bypassing preconceived notions.

 

The rest I'll agree with!

I'm absolutely with you about the value of good SF&F. It's why I like it.

 

But I believe it does that societal exploration for people who understand that culture, not for someone who is outside trying to learn that culture.

 

If I wanted someone to understand about modern US life, I would probably suggest Hope Floats over Gattica, Dan in Real Life over Blade Runner, Pretty Woman over The Terminator.

 

That's all I meant.

 

The Chinese would get a heckuva lot more out of Red Cliff than you or I would, because they know the old tropes that are being recast in new light through the use of the fantastic.

 

We may enjoy Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, but I'll be we don't get the bulk of the cultural references. But we can by watching Fendou.

 

 

ohh... I dont know about that

 

Amercan culture, Dallas, Knots landing, the bla bla and the restless, Opra, DR Phil.

 

or American history X, Kill Bill, Crash,Traffic, Swordfish

 

or the bachloer, survivor etc

 

or Gone with the wind,on golden pond, the river runs deep

 

Americans cant even get a grip on American culture how do we expect others too ?