Testing the Limits of Humanity

[knloregon]

My neighbor is Cambodian, mid 30's doesn't directly remember the killing fields, although he was a lucky survivor.. Much of his extended family were exterminated. Many others simply 'disappeared' one night, shortly before a local purge.. And they were definitely marked for death----employees of the US embassy.. He assumed, and his parents told him, never to expect to se them again. What none of them knew, at the time, was that the US embassy had secretly evacuated these relatives to a safer place---the American officer who his father worked for had arranged it, but it was so dangerous, he didn't even tell the father... Years later they found out, and were reunited----like returning from the grave..

 

1.7 million were not so lucky.

 

For an extended time now, crimes against humanity trials have be going on in Cambodia. 'Duch' --- "The former chief of the Khmer Rouge's main torture center being tried by a U.N. backed tribunal on genocide charges, asked the Cambodian people Wednesday to give him "the harshest punishment" ....the statement came as a wido wept before the court, demanding justice for the death of her husband and four children...

 

Duch: "I accept the regret, the sorrow and the suffering of the million Cambodian people who lost their husbands and wives. --- I would like the the Cambodian people to condemn me to the harshest punishment."

 

-----"Duch later became an evangelical Christian and worked for international aid organizations after the ouster of Khmer Rouge."

 

So the question is two fold: What should the Cambodians do with Duch?

 

 

And the second part----culturally, (for instance, I'm a Christian)----is he forgiven? In our culture? in Cambodian culture? In Chinese culture? ----and I don't mean does he get off---in this life------what happens to his soul? Or related aspects in each of the cultures?

 

Your thoughts....

[warpedbored]

Castrate him

[Dennis143]

Castrate him

I think some mid evil torture like skinning him alive might be the proper medicine.

 

However, being a Christian, I'd say forgiveness is in order.

[Yuanyang]

By Christian doctrine he is forgiven. I gather he is doing good work now, so putting him in prison would only deprive those he is now serving.

Interesting ...

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Adolf Eichman did not get away with his murderous way. Today there are 2 Nazi guards who are in their late 80s now are being prosecuted for their crimes against humanity. This man should not be exempt. If he can't do the time, don't do the crime.

[knloregon]

NOT SO FAST ~! ~!!!

 

this is a two part question----sure, there is the vengeance aspect, he is now trying to pull the whole holocaust of the killing fields down on his head---to be the whipping boy for Pol Pot... and I assume he will get his due, what ever that might be in Cambodia

 

but vengeance aside----in each of the cultures---what happens to his soul---and the soul of those who judge him.

 

----remember, this is a fairly rare war criminal in that he is accepting the quilt of HIS crimes and those of others as well.

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

NOT SO FAST ~! ~!!!

 

this is a two part question----sure, there is the vengeance aspect, he is now trying to pull the whole holocaust of the killing fields down on his head---to be the whipping boy for Pol Pot... and I assume he will get his due, what ever that might be in Cambodia

 

but vengeance aside----in each of the cultures---what happens to his soul---and the soul of those who judge him.

 

----remember, this is a fairly rare war criminal in that he is accepting the quilt of HIS crimes and those of others as well.

This will be up to Jesus Chrirst decide. Not Mortal Man.

[knloregon]

"..This will be up to Jesus Chrirst decide. Not Mortal Man..."

 

Well, ultimately, I happen to agree with that Tony, but it is also a moral issue worth discussing. I don't simply suggest because God has the last word that we can't discuss an important issue such as the taking of human life, and the spiritual consequences.

 

And this is the culture and language site---so I was hoping that maybe there were some with a perspective from the other cultures involved ---which I'm assuming in Cambodia might include Taoism and Buddhism..

 

Thee are members here, or who have passed through here, who have taken the lives of others in the conduct of war. mostly VN, I think, but maybe some in Gulf war 1 and 2. Its not an abstract subject.

[warpedbored]

Punishment for breaking the law has been around as long as there have been religions. forgiving someone in your heart does not mean they don't have to pay their debt to society. Of course being the heathen that I am, I'm not concerned with whether or not he has been saved by Jesus.

[Guest Pommey]

If you dont happen to believe in "God" then god is not really in the equation , so his punishment is up to the courts (man), his crimes were hideous, his punishment should be swift, humane and terminal in nature.

JMHO

[Smitty]

If you dont happen to believe in "God" then god is not really in the equation , so his punishment is up to the courts (man), his crimes were hideous

I'll agree with that part.

his punishment should be swift, humane and terminal in nature.

JMHO

I think you have this part wrong. It should be slow, brutal, and nearly terminal, IMO.

[tsap seui]

 

Give ol' Douche a lil' blow torch and pliers Christianity...don't forget to forgive him and thank him for all his good work first.

Edited August 14, 2009 by tsap seui (see edit history)

[weiaijiayou]

And the second part----culturally, (for instance, I'm a Christian)----is he forgiven? In our culture? in Cambodian culture? In Chinese culture? ----and I don't mean does he get off---in this life------what happens to his soul? Or related aspects in each of the cultures?

 

Your thoughts....

this is an interesting question. it resonates with me in terms of something i heard (and was flabbergasted by) a few weeks ago. namely, as you probably heard, a man brutally murdered several random women in an LA Fitness Center near Pittsburgh in early August. a newspaper article quoted the man's church pastor as saying, "he's in heaven now."

 

some say god works on a level incomprehensible to man. be that as it may, i find it exceedingly difficult to swallow that this hateful murderer, upon his own subsequent suicide, immediately ascended into a blissful paradise that will last for eternity.

 

but that's just the viewpoint of one segment (surely at lease some other christians disagree with this pastor) of one western religion.

 

as far as chinese religions, i'm not an expert, but i can at least speculate and be corrected if someone here knows more or has a contrasting understanding. specifically, i don't believe there is any judgment involved with most forms of buddhism, daoism, or confucianism. confucianism has moral tenets about how you should act towards others, and daoism and buddhism seem to suggest ways of living your life so that natural forces guide you to a state of enlightenment or being right with the world. i think in all of these religions or philosophies, once you're dead, you're dead. you're molecules keep on going so that, in daoism, "in death you live," and in buddhism you return (but paradoxically, from what i understand, you don't have the same soul or self) as a different life-form. for me, the closest any of these ways of thinking gets to a judgment is buddhism's idea of nirvana; however, no one says "you did it -- you reached nirvana!" it just happens naturally as a course of how you've lived your life. this point seems pretty irrelevant to the main person under discussion here, though, as it seems unlikely he'll be reaching nirvana based on how he has lived.

 

as for chinese culture, perhaps consistent with my understanding that most chinese religions seem to lack a western-type afterlife of rewards and punishments, most chinese people i've met seem keen on punishing wrongdoers in the here and now. if that means death, so be it. if it hurts, they should have thought of that before they did what they did. as a result, china executes lots of people.

 

this of course is painting with a very broad brush, but i believe it's pretty accurate generally speaking.

[knloregon]

good post...

 

'...this is an interesting question. it resonates with me in terms of something i heard (and was flabbergasted by) a few weeks ago. namely, as you probably heard, a man brutally murdered several random women in an LA Fitness Center near Pittsburgh in early August. a newspaper article quoted the man's church pastor as saying, "he's in heaven now."

 

 

but this statement I don't understand as a Christian. To repent is essential in even the most liberal (liberal used here in God's acceptance of the sinner) denominations... Can't see how that applies in this case.

 

then the more traditional Catholic and Episcopal churches teach not just God's unwavering forgiveness, but that you also have free will, that you accountable for your actions---up front. Making forgiveness much harder after the fact, at least depending on the magnitude of your crimes..

 

Duch seems to understand, as an evangelical Christian now, that he's most probably going to hell... If not currently living some version of it on earth. He's unusual (in mass murderers) because apparently, along the way, he found a conscience, and wants to accept the pain he has caused, through his punishment, and also for the crimes of the rest of the Khmer Rouge...

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

Khmer Rouge was equivilant to the Nazis. This guy named Duch followed the road of good intention. However the road to hell is paved in good intentions. This guy is a stone killer. He is only screaming for God and Christ now like atheists and agnostics do when the chips have fallen against them.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Tony n Terrific (see edit history)