Riots in Xinjiang

[Jeikun]

or even China would only pass immigration laws like France than everything would be ok......

 

 

You're kidding right? The Uigars are not immigrants. The Han are the immigrants. That would be like me saying that the Native Americans are immigrants.

[weiaijiayou]

whether or not there are uighurs who protest violently isn't the question here. looking back, can you denounce the entire civil rights movement because some chose to act violently? i'm willing to believe that at least some uighurs believe the restrictions on their freedom and their living conditions can be improved through peaceful protest. the question here is whether it was predominantly these guys or the violent ones who were out there protesting.

 

I don't know to what question you're referring, but if a group of asswipes are wandering the street deliberately harming my family, friends, and neighbors, then they will die from my hands.

geez, were they showing the charles bronson "deathwish" series on satellite or what? i can totally understand your feelings and experience the same rage and injustice when i see those bloody pictures of innocent people.

 

the part in red was in response to knloregon saying that someone who would take the side of uighur separatists is like a mafia lawyer. what i meant by the comment in red was that having one's cause co-opted and championed by bad eggs (e.g., a mob of violent youngsters) doesn't mean your cause doesn't have any merit. many uighurs may very well have legitimate issues that they feel need to be addressed peacefully. for example, according to hearsay, child uighurs are forbidden to enter mosques or to receive religious education until age 18. i don't know for sure -- i'm not a uighur and don't have any close uighur friends. 90% of what i hear about uighurs is racially motivated comments from my han chinese friends about uighurs being uncivilized and uneducated.

 

my only point in all of this is that i don't believe all the uighurs who might find cause to protest are terrorists. i just hope, as you assume, that it's the violent "asswipes" deliberately harming others that are being stopped and brought to justice.

[amberjack1234]

It's one thing to have a peaceful demonstration to make your point, but this was not the intention of these people. They went on the street angry, and after a short time began attacking Han people by beating and stabbing them. They then proceeded to torch buses, police cars, throw rocks at police, and all the things that a peaceful protest is not. They were given repeated warnings to disperse after things turned violent, but instead of dispersing, decided to turn up the violence. The ones that took part in this activity are criminals, and those who came from abroad to stimulate the activity are too.

i¡¯m not sure how you know any of these things (e.g., ¡°they went on the street angry¡±, ¡°those who came from abroad¡±). I agree that anyone who harmed an innocent person in this event is a criminal. however, we don¡¯t have any way of knowing what percentage of these protesters were involved in that kind of activity. our ability to get any information at all about the event is severely limited by one of the two parties involved. even under peaceful conditions journalists don¡¯t have freedom to go in and talk with uighurs. these aspects of the situation give me pause as far as taking sides in any of this.

 

It's good to take a pause until all the facts emerge. China has locked down most of the communication in the city to keep things under control. Still, stories are getting out all over the Internet about the long history between these people. They don't like each other at all. One of the main roads in the city has Han people on one side and Muslim people on the other. Things have always been tense between them. This most recent event started after fights erupted between the same Muslims and Han in Guangdong. There is a long history of hate.

 

What I'm seeing a lot of in photos and stories, are that the Muslims began gathering and taunting the Han. Fights erupted, followed by beatings and stabbings. The police intervened and attempted to disperse the crowds, but things got worse. The one thing I haven't heard are stories of police doing the killing by running over and shooting indiscriminately into crowds.

So much for free press, freedom of reporting the news as well as freedom of speech. This is done very frequently in China. The government controls all the news media and will not allow anything that will tarnish the image of China to be reported on. That is exactly why there is no reports on the estimated 80000 small and easily controlled riots each year. Only when things get out of hand like this one will it be reported in the news.

 

Jessie I am glad that you have found out that the news in the Chinese media is indeed controlled by the government

Larry

[knloregon]

"the part in red was in response to knloregon saying that someone who would take the side of uighur separatists is like a mafia lawyer."

 

Perhaps you missed my point, weuaujiayou....not that you are LIKE a mafia Lawyer, but that the lawyer plants a conceptual seed (that there really isn't a Mod in the US) and people believe----because they want to believe---even in the face of overwhelming facts.

 

"for example, according to hearsay, child uighurs are forbidden to enter mosques or to receive religious education until age 18." Religious discrimination, for sure. But according to who? "hearsay" I have heard that "hearsay" myself. But this I know for fact: The Han in Xinjiang are restricted to one child under China's one-child policy. The Uighur minority has no restrictions on the number of children they can bare---so which ethnic group is oppressed under that policy?

 

Did you read my earlier post? I know for a fact: I have access to the actual names of hunters, four of five who were BEHEADED by Uighur separatists. Last last time I checked, those were acts of terror, not legitimate protest. And yes, that bares the distinctive mark of Al-Qaeda training, a foreign terrorist organization, which we (the US) are fighting right now on several fronts, post 911. What? China shouldn't fight them in their own back yard? Yes SQN put it bluntly. But if it walks like a duck, quacks, etc. eventually you have to call it a duck----

 

I totally understand how liberals in the west perpetuate this theater of the absurd related to events in China. Yes, you are right---no breakdown on the ethnic make up of the dead yet---but come on! You aren't seeing what looks overwhelmingly like Han casualties?

 

Ok, for reference, lets go back to March of last year, and the Tibitan riots in Lhasa---Tibetan mob burning to death Han shop keepers and their families in their homes---cheering to their final screams. Does anyone here think the liberal press reported that objectively? Because my impression is that once again, China was portrayed as the oppressor by the western liberal press.

 

So I hope as we follow this, we will try hard to remain objective ourselves.

[weiaijiayou]

"the part in red was in response to knloregon saying that someone who would take the side of uighur separatists is like a mafia lawyer."

 

Perhaps you missed my point, weuaujiayou....not that you are LIKE a mafia Lawyer, but that the lawyer plants a conceptual seed (that there really isn't a Mod in the US) and people believe----because they want to believe---even in the face of overwhelming facts.

 

"for example, according to hearsay, child uighurs are forbidden to enter mosques or to receive religious education until age 18." Religious discrimination, for sure. But according to who? "hearsay" I have heard that "hearsay" myself. But this I know for fact: The Han in Xinjiang are restricted to one child under China's one-child policy. The Uighur minority has no restrictions on the number of children they can bare---so which ethnic group is oppressed under that policy?

 

Did you read my earlier post? I know for a fact: I have access to the actual names of hunters, four of five who were BEHEADED by Uighur separatists. Last last time I checked, those were acts of terror, not legitimate protest. And yes, that bares the distinctive mark of Al-Qaeda training, a foreign terrorist organization, which we (the US) are fighting right now on several fronts, post 911. What? China shouldn't fight them in their own back yard? Yes SQN put it bluntly. But if it walks like a duck, quacks, etc. eventually you have to call it a duck----

 

I totally understand how liberals in the west perpetuate this theater of the absurd related to events in China. Yes, you are right---no breakdown on the ethnic make up of the dead yet---but come on! You aren't seeing what looks overwhelmingly like Han casualties?

 

Ok, for reference, lets go back to March of last year, and the Tibitan riots in Lhasa---Tibetan mob burning to death Han shop keepers and their families in their homes---cheering to their final screams. Does anyone here think the liberal press reported that objectively? Because my impression is that once again, China was portrayed as the oppressor by the western liberal press.

 

So I hope as we follow this, we will try hard to remain objective ourselves.

whoever committed those acts against the hunters were animals.

 

that doesn't earn government a free pass to do anything it wishes against uighurs. if the police did not harm innocent people then we have no disagreement.

 

again, i'm not blindly "on the side" of uighurs. all i pointed out was that we're looking through foggy glass here.

[knloregon]

We are certainly in agreement that this extremely important story isn't going to be reported objectively or completely by either side.

[ameriken]

Korean TV just released a youbtube video of during and after the riots.

 

Warning: this is very, extremely graphic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psm8CG0MzTU

Edited July 7, 2009 by ameriken (see edit history)

[Guest jin979]

none are immigrants. they are all Chinese . Chinese has many native ethnic(minority) groups, many more than than USA maybe, only native ethnic groups are American Indians all the rest of us are immigrants.

Ethnic groups in china have and do fight in past and now, but mostly life well together, Yunnan province is good example. Xinjiang is a province in china since Qin dynasty and fully since the chairman.

The separatists see themselves more as Muslim nation than Chinese , so its a culture thing.

 

the reason we see this now in these places is chinese big govt will not let Wushu police control early becauase western press will say govt to hard suppress freedom, western rather see dead innocent chinese on street and soft police response. Is this freedom i dont think so.

 

So i ask you what do you think Wushu police and govt should have done, let this happen so western think freedom of protest or should they have killed rioters, what if in your USA city against your chinese wifes and family in LA. Houton,NY etc ?

Edited July 7, 2009 by jin979 (see edit history)

[chengdu4me]

JMHO...the Chinese government should have swooped down on these people ( and any people) that are committing any violent acts and put a stop to it in whatever way is quickest and easiest. If you are unhappy about the price of goods, you boycott the store..if you are unhappy about your prospects for employment, you get creative. Committing violence on unarmed people is not acceptable behavior. Burning buses and stores is not acceptable. This is a violent, terroristic behavior that should not under any circumstances be allowed for even one second...it doesn't matter whether it is Uighers, Han, other any other group in any city, anywhere.

 

If you march down the street in Dallas, Texas and start beating people that you think are from Austin, somebody is gonna shoot your ass and the problem will be over. This is what needs to happen on whatever scale it takes to stop this.

 

How do you say it in Chinese? If you don't start none, there won't be none!

[Guest Tony n Terrific]

I discussed this witjh my SIO this morning and it was the 1st time sge ever heard of this riot going on. It maybe a blackout on this in China or maybe sugar coated.

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I discussed this witjh my SIO this morning and it was the 1st time sge ever heard of this riot going on. It maybe a blackout on this in China or maybe sugar coated.

 

The Chinese media is not actively covering the incident. They are aware that in doing so it will inflame an already tense and violent situation. You will find reports in Chinese news about it. Nearly all the reports I've seen in China report the facts, but are not obsessing about it the way you would see in the Western media.

[chengdu4me]

JMHO...the Chinese government should have swooped down on these people ( and any people) that are committing any violent acts and put a stop to it in whatever way is quickest and easiest.

Hard to argue with and I quite agree. On the other hand, isn't that what caused the outrage about Tibet? Seems the government can't win - they are either brutal or woosie because they don't handle things like we (in the US) do.

 

 

Governments never win when there is violence in the streets...No matter what they do, they are going to get blasted by someone. Better to end, end it now, end it permanently. The shorter period it goes on, the less blasting they have to take.

[chengdu4me]

I just saw that Hu is leaving the G8 meeting in Italy and returning to BJ due to the riot. Must be getting serious.

 

 

He's fixin to put the kabosh on this, pronto!

[Guest ShaQuaNew]

I just saw that Hu is leaving the G8 meeting in Italy and returning to BJ due to the riot. Must be getting serious.

 

 

Now that's a big deal. Watching the news now, haven't seen any reports here about him returning.

 

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cese/eng/xwdt/t330195.htm

 

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world...90708-dc3r.html

Edited July 7, 2009 by ShaQuaNew (see edit history)

[knloregon]

Don, once again, the impression you have about the March '08' Tibetan riots appears to be a figment of imagination of the liberal press.

 

The police and military were specifically ordered NOT to engage the Tibetan mob, and there are some UTube clips of police standing there and taking great punishment by the rioters---including being slashed with knives.

 

this was during the run-up to the Olympics, and order from higher up was that there was to be no provocation by the Government. Reporting on BBC during the first day, a reporter in Lhasa who works for the Economist (soory his mname escapes right now)--- described in detail what he called a bloody race riot (Tibetans against the Han) Beijing in its usual ham-handed way told him to leave the region---and forced him, and other western reporters to do so the next day.

 

I just read that perhaps that will be different this time---the AP (William Foreman) filed a report that authorities are letting at least some western reports stay and cover the story. We'll see how long that lasts..